Mark Sanchez at 13th?

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by The Goat

OMG yeah that's why Brady looked like a below average QB when the dominant NY defense pressured or sacked him all game SB before last Seriously bro, seriously think about what you're saying. Protection and WR talent don't matter?! Are you just angry about something else altogether? Why ignore historical fact and reality toward a point that doesn't prove anything.

...most QBs in the league can be quite good when surrounded by phenomenal talent and great protection. It's that simple. A very small handful can "will" their way to success in lesser conditions. Tom Brady is not among that group. Belichick, aside from the year Reche Caldwell was NE's #1 WR, has always surrounded his QB w/ awesome talent and truly phenomenal pass protection. I would put Brees and even Dono way ahead in that category compared to Brady.

Wasn't Brady hurt that game? I understand your points on he has had a great system but i think his intangibles still would make him pretty successful in other offenses. While he has had a very good team to play with, he has brought his team back and won in the last minute too many times to say he cant will his team to victory.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're regressing, BHA.

You're also missing the point on Brady. He, himself, wouldn't be any worse of a quarterback here than in New England. He, himself, would be the same guy. He just wouldn't win as much or make as many pro bowls as he would playing for NE. It wouldn't be his fault. I'm sure when we're 10-6 and exiting from the playoffs in the wild card round, you'll be all over Brady for his inspirational demeanor and his ability to make Santana Moss look a little bit better than he really is. Championship!

And then there's the assumption that Mark Sanchez is basically Tom Brady, and/or would have a Brady-like inspirational effect on the Redskins. Well, uh, not exactly.

Here's the deal, I enjoy you're refreshing forward induction approach here, but it's unnecessary. I don't care what system you run. You simply don't replace a 27 year old QB with similar value to Campbell if you:

a) know what you are doing
b) don't have a really, really problematic externality (can't contact your QB)

That's the problem in a nutshell. You're saying that QB will be a problem in the future, and we should address it now. That's simply not the case, contract issues aside. You have to go forward under the assumption that Jason Campbell can't go anywhere in 2010 unless the team chooses a different path. If the team is at that point right now, it's very clear they have no idea what they are doing.



Oh, and teams would not pass over Tom Brady again because he's really good, i.e. better than Sanchez will ever be. Not for any other cosmic reason.

This is where you and I disagree - i can envision no realistic scenario in which the team doesnt go in a different path. None. The idea that the team will have any reason to stick with Campbell is a fantasy to me. (Whether the team "knows what theyre doing" or not is largely irrelevant.)

Mark Sanchez is a good fit for the WCO- Jason Campbell isnt. if Campbell were entering his 4th season under Saunders now, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Campbell is a good fit for that type of system. He isnt for Zorns. If Zorn beleived in Campbell, he wouldnt be so high on Sanchez, would he?

Also, someone else made a good point-it was something like: Zorn/Sanchez could go 6-10 in 2009 and everyone could be fine for 2010, but Zorn/Campbell could go 9-7 and everyone (Zorn/Campbell/Cerrato) loses their jobs. Like it or not, the stakes are much higher for Zorn if Campbell is here. Realistically, given the level of patience in the modern NFL (and our owners impatience in particular), anything less than 11-5 or an NFC championship game appearance and we're starting from scratch in 2010. Given JCs complete lack of natural suitability for this offense, and the other holes we have on this team, do you really think thats a likely outcome?

I dont. And every opinion I have about the direction this team should go is based on that premise. "Slow, steady improvement" on Campbells part is not going to cut it. Maybe, if he were only entering his 2nd or 3rd year in the league... but not his 5th. Campbell is close to realizing his potential. Theres not that much more room for improvement, atleast not in this system. My #1 hope is that this team drafts a rookie WCO QB (quick release, good decionsmaker, extremely accurate with short passes) and then keeps the system in place for him atleast 3-4 years. Blame it on whatever and whomever you want, but Campbell is damaged goods and will never become a franchise QB in this system. IMO Its time to cut our losses and move on.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Masshole

(Suggested Thread Title) Will the Real Jason Campbell Fans Please Stand Up


So I don't have ten replies and can't start a thread, but is there any way the people who really believe in Jason Campbell as the future of the franchise can get together and somehow protest a potential Sanchez trade/show JC our support? I'm not really good with website design but would be happy to produce content. The way the front office is handling this situation is absurd, and before we piss away two more draft picks, perhaps we can rally broad fan opposition to this as well as show Jason Campbell that Snyder may not believe in him, but we do. Seems like a winner on both fronts.

This won't work unfortunately, since there are people here that write hundreds of words against Campbell all the time. People get pissed off that we spend money on Haynesworth and wasted picks for Jason Taylor, but were very willing to give up two first rounds for Jay Cutler.

[Zerohero]

People are assuming Sanchez would play the first year, even if he was drafted he wouldn't play. And how could Sanchez be rated better then Colt, he only played 16 games.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't understand why people are so hell bent on getting a QB that's going to throw for 400 yds every game. Honestly, with the defense we had last year, we just needed an offense that can keep us one step ahead and allow us to control the clock when we have the lead. If you look at the elite defenses of last year (Titans, Ravens), their QBs were not setting passing records or anything like that. The easiest thing to do for our team is to get the o-line to protect Campbell and use the offense as a compliment to the defense.

If the team (or should I say, Snyder) wants to have an offense that racks up the yards and is an offense juggernaut, then the defense must be sacrificed. If you look at teams like Indy, Arizona, and New Orleans, who had passing offenses with huge numbers, well those teams usually don't have good defense. Not everyone can be like the New England Patriots (potent offense, with a top notch defense of old guys that won't get hurt) and I don't understand why Snyder (or anyone here) is hell bent on getting a Jay Cutler or another QB that's going to rack up the yards (at the expense of other areas which have typically have been the strength of our team....defense and running game).

I'll be the first one to say I'd love for us to be the '99 Rams re-created and sling the ball down the field all day long but that's not who we are. I love offensive football as does Snyder. Give me the early 80's Chargers over teams like the '85 Bears any day, to watch but not to support. I'd love to put an aerial assault to match our defense but it's not who we are, yet.

Now, you make a good point. Teams that are offensive juggernauts are rarely elite defensively as well. That's where our two sides of the house don't meet. We've done a great job in drafting and developing defensive players pretty consistently since the Norv days but we've always whiffed, most of the time badly, in doing that on offense. Snyder is desperate to turn that around. Like Gibbs was satisfied winning 17-14, I think Snyder would be just as satisfied losing 45-43, as long as it was exciting. I'm really amazed he didn't go after Mike Martz when he hired Zorn just for that reason.

I truly think that while Campbell is never going to be a 35 TD, 4500 yard guy he can develop THIS YEAR into a 22 TD, 3800 yard QB that can lead us to a playoff year. He's improved year to year and good organizations allow that progression to continue rather than stunt it at every opportunity.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

People are assuming Sanchez would play the first year, even if he was drafted he wouldn't play. And how could Sanchez be rated better then Colt, he only played 16 games.

One went to USC and the other didn't, that's the media's point but is that a serious question??

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is where you and I disagree - i can envision no realistic scenario in which the team doesnt go in a different path. None. The idea that the team will have any reason to stick with Campbell is a fantasy to me. (Whether the team "knows what theyre doing" or not is largely irrelevant.)

Mark Sanchez is a good fit for the WCO- Jason Campbell isnt. if Campbell were entering his 4th season under Saunders now, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Campbell is a good fit for that type of system. He isnt for Zorns. If Zorn beleived in Campbell, he wouldnt be so high on Sanchez, would he?

Zorn would want Sanchez if JC wasn't his QB (read what Smootsmack wrote). I doubt Zorn would want to put his career in the hands of a rookie QB, instead of the player that proved to be a good QB when he had protection.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is where you and I disagree - i can envision no realistic scenario in which the team doesnt go in a different path. None. The idea that the team will have any reason to stick with Campbell is a fantasy to me. (Whether the team "knows what theyre doing" or not is largely irrelevant.)

Mark Sanchez is a good fit for the WCO- Jason Campbell isnt. if Campbell were entering his 4th season under Saunders now, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Campbell is a good fit for that type of system. He isnt for Zorns. If Zorn beleived in Campbell, he wouldnt be so high on Sanchez, would he?

Also, someone else made a good point-it was something like: Zorn/Sanchez could go 6-10 in 2009 and everyone could be fine for 2010, but Zorn/Campbell could go 9-7 and everyone (Zorn/Campbell/Cerrato) loses their jobs. Like it or not, the stakes are much higher for Zorn if Campbell is here. Realistically, given the level of patience in the modern NFL (and our owners impatience in particular), anything less than 11-5 or an NFC championship game appearance and we're starting from scratch in 2010. Given JCs complete lack of natural suitability for this offense, and the other holes we have on this team, do you really think thats a likely outcome?

I dont. And every opinion I have about the direction this team should go is based on that premise. "Slow, steady improvement" on Campbells part is not going to cut it. Maybe, if he were only entering his 2nd or 3rd year in the league... but not his 5th. Campbell is close to realizing his potential. Theres not that much more room for improvement, atleast not in this system. My #1 hope is that this team drafts a rookie WCO QB (quick release, good decionsmaker, extremely accurate with short passes) and then keeps the system in place for him atleast 3-4 years. Blame it on whatever and whomever you want, but Campbell is damaged goods and will never become a franchise QB in this system. IMO Its time to cut our losses and move on.

I cannot understand your extreme dislike of JC.

In a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, his qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts.

So, in a new system with a creaky offensive line, he outperformed some Super Bowl winning QB's. It seems to me that, in the best-case scenario, your views are very much overstated, and in the worst-case scenario your views on JC are way off.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is where you and I disagree - i can envision no realistic scenario in which the team doesnt go in a different path. None. The idea that the team will have any reason to stick with Campbell is a fantasy to me. (Whether the team "knows what theyre doing" or not is largely irrelevant.)

Mark Sanchez is a good fit for the WCO- Jason Campbell isnt. if Campbell were entering his 4th season under Saunders now, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Campbell is a good fit for that type of system. He isnt for Zorns. If Zorn beleived in Campbell, he wouldnt be so high on Sanchez, would he?

Also, someone else made a good point-it was something like: Zorn/Sanchez could go 6-10 in 2009 and everyone could be fine for 2010, but Zorn/Campbell could go 9-7 and everyone (Zorn/Campbell/Cerrato) loses their jobs. Like it or not, the stakes are much higher for Zorn if Campbell is here. Realistically, given the level of patience in the modern NFL (and our owners impatience in particular), anything less than 11-5 or an NFC championship game appearance and we're starting from scratch in 2010. Given JCs complete lack of natural suitability for this offense, and the other holes we have on this team, do you really think thats a likely outcome?

I dont. And every opinion I have about the direction this team should go is based on that premise. "Slow, steady improvement" on Campbells part is not going to cut it. Maybe, if he were only entering his 2nd or 3rd year in the league... but not his 5th. Campbell is close to realizing his potential. Theres not that much more room for improvement, atleast not in this system. My #1 hope is that this team drafts a rookie WCO QB (quick release, good decionsmaker, extremely accurate with short passes) and then keeps the system in place for him atleast 3-4 years. Blame it on whatever and whomever you want, but Campbell is damaged goods and will never become a franchise QB in this system. IMO Its time to cut our losses and move on.

Sanchez is a good fit for the USC system (just like every other USC QB, hell John David Booty looked like an NFL QB out there) But seriously people JC has been in 6 or 7 different systems going back to college. It's only been one year and everyone wants a QB who wasnt a better prospect than Matt Leinart and look at him.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I cannot understand your extreme dislike of JC.

In a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, his qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts.

So, in a new system with a creaky offensive line, he outperformed some Super Bowl winning QB's. It seems to me that, in the best-case scenario, your views are very much overstated, and in the worst-case scenario your views on JC are way off.

Dont forget the fact that he didnt throw a pick till the Pitt game

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

One went to USC and the other didn't, that's the media's point but is that a serious question??

Yes a very serious question. The only reason Sanchez is so high in the draft is because he is the second best QB to come out(and lately great interview, good pro day), not because he is a better valued player then the OT's, LB's, RB's he will get picked over.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

People are assuming Sanchez would play the first year, even if he was drafted he wouldn't play. And how could Sanchez be rated better then Colt, he only played 16 games.

Because Colt played in a video game system, played mostly against second rate competition, has poor NFL mechanics, is small and light.... Need I go on?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I cannot understand your extreme dislike of JC.

In a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, his qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts.

So, in a new system with a creaky offensive line, he outperformed some Super Bowl winning QB's. It seems to me that, in the best-case scenario, your views are very much overstated, and in the worst-case scenario your views on JC are way off.

Many people are like this, I don't understand why such hatred for Campbell. I guess these people didn't see wideouts dropping good passes or our old offensive linemen getting bulldozed during the second half of the season. I wish people would write long threads on why we should draft a stud o-lineman instead of all of this anti-Campbell stuff. It reminds me when Reed Doughty became Redskins enemy #1 and people stopped talking about him when he got hurt.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Yes a very serious question. The only reason Sanchez is so high in the draft is because he is the second best QB to come out(and lately great interview, good pro day), not because he is a better valued player then the OT's, LB's, RB's he will get picked over.

How can you say that if none of them have played a down in the NFL yet???

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Because Colt played in a video game system, played mostly against second rate competition, has poor NFL mechanics, is small and light.... Need I go on?

And Sanchez played with tremendous talent around him, never was pressured, and threw to wide open receivers. So while im not saying Colt is the greatest, i don't see how sanchez would be viewed that much better. Having a great Proday should not move you up this much in the draft.