Remembering Our Local Fallen Heroes Thread

[MTK]

My intention was not to hijack the thread, but I guess it's just hard to remember our fallen soliders without feeling some anger and disgust. I think it's very important to remember our fallen soldiers, but at the same time I think it's equally important to continue to question why we are there and if our leaders have a plan of action to get us the hell out. We owe our soliders that type of respect too.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's exactly how I feel when I see our soliders being sent to an early and pointless death.

I have total and complete respect for our soliders. I cannot express that enough.

However I have ZERO respect for the decision makers who have gotten us into this huge cluster-F of a war.

If you don't support what the troops are doing, you're not really supporting them.

People think they can justify themselves by saying the bumper-sticker phrase, "I support the troops but not the war".

Do these people REALLY support the troops? What have you personally done to show them? I've sent phone cards to soldiers so they can call their families...bought them dinner when they return, sent care packages, supported charities that directly help them...THAT is supporting the troops. Words are nice but they don't do much in reality.

I'm not bashing you directly, Matty...but so many people can rant and rave about the war and add "but I support the troops" to the end and think they're right because of it. If you don't show support to them or don't stand behind their missions...you don't really support them.

It's like saying "I follow the law" and then don't pay your taxes because you disagree with them.

If you don't support what the troops live and die for...the jobs they sacrifice and dedicate their lives to...you don't really support them. You can't hate what they believe in (right now it's fighting terrorists and removing governments who support them), then they won't see what you mean when you say you "support" them. Our brave soldiers support their leaders, so if you say you don't...you're disagreeing with everything our troops are fighting for and therefore can't say you support them.

Sorry if the truth hurts.



This thread is NOT the place to talk about your feelings towards the President and to have a political debate. It's meant to be a memorial and a tribute.

To come in and say something like " However I have ZERO respect for the decision makers who have gotten us into this huge cluster-F of a war." is like playing Cindy Sheehan or that Westboro Baptist "church" and interrupting a funeral with protests.

Keep up the great work SBF.

If mods or anyone else is upset about my ranting and passion on this...I don't apologize. I DO support our troops and I'll fight for their good name when they're away fighting for my freedom.

If we ever had the current popular attitude and the treasonous media and politicians during other wars, we'd be a third-world communist nation today. Look what the once rich and powerful Soviet Union has disintegrated to...because they didn't stand up and fight for their rights and freedom. The Chinese let their government take care of them and they avoid conflicts, but, they have no freedom.

Those who have and still do fight and die to keep us free think the price is worth it. So do I.

[MTK]

I guess we'll have to just disagree then. I think you can support the troops without supporting the cause or the leaders behind this mess. To me there's a clear difference.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Buster

If you don't support what the troops are doing, you're not really supporting them.

People think they can justify themselves by saying the bumper-sticker phrase, "I support the troops but not the war".

Do these people REALLY support the troops? What have you personally done to show them? I've sent phone cards to soldiers so they can call their families...bought them dinner when they return, sent care packages, supported charities that directly help them...THAT is supporting the troops. Words are nice but they don't do much in reality.

I'm not bashing you directly, Matty...but so many people can rant and rave about the war and add "but I support the troops" to the end and think they're right because of it. If you don't show support to them or don't stand behind their missions...you don't really support them.

It's like saying "I follow the law" and then don't pay your taxes because you disagree with them.

If you don't support what the troops live and die for...the jobs they sacrifice and dedicate their lives to...you don't really support them. You can't hate what they believe in (right now it's fighting terrorists and removing governments who support them), then they won't see what you mean when you say you "support" them. Our brave soldiers support their leaders, so if you say you don't...you're disagreeing with everything our troops are fighting for and therefore can't say you support them.

Sorry if the truth hurts.



This thread is NOT the place to talk about your feelings towards the President and to have a political debate. It's meant to be a memorial and a tribute.

To come in and say something like " However I have ZERO respect for the decision makers who have gotten us into this huge cluster-F of a war." is like playing Cindy Sheehan or that Westboro Baptist "church" and interrupting a funeral with protests.

Keep up the great work SBF.

If mods or anyone else is upset about my ranting and passion on this...I don't apologize. I DO support our troops and I'll fight for their good name when they're away fighting for my freedom.

If we ever had the current popular attitude and the treasonous media and politicians during other wars, we'd be a third-world communist nation today. Look what the once rich and powerful Soviet Union has disintegrated to...because they didn't stand up and fight for their rights and freedom. The Chinese let their government take care of them and they avoid conflicts, but, they have no freedom.

Those who have and still do fight and die to keep us free think the price is worth it. So do I.

But Buster, by you taking this very stance on the issue, indeed, further makes it a political thread. I think people are torn on the issue of war. It has split the nation. In fact, it's splitting Congress and the Senate as we speak. We have policy makers that backed Bush at the beginning, who are now getting hammered by their constituants back home, and they're now re-thinking the merrits, if any, of continuing on in Iraq.

They no doubt still honor and support the troops, but the mission itself has, in fact, become a thorn in the side of this country. This is where we are, sadly.

I'll say this, anytime you bring up President Bush's name, I don't care what the contex or the the title or intention of the thread, I'll guarantee you that it will stir some very heated responses.

[SmootSmack]

And in a few years there will be heated debates about President Giuliani or Obama or whoever. Nature of the beast

However, Buster has represented one side and 12th the other. Now let's end it and get back to the original intent of the thread

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by Buster

If you don't support what the troops are doing, you're not really supporting them.

People think they can justify themselves by saying the bumper-sticker phrase, "I support the troops but not the war".

Do these people REALLY support the troops? What have you personally done to show them? I've sent phone cards to soldiers so they can call their families...bought them dinner when they return, sent care packages, supported charities that directly help them...THAT is supporting the troops. Words are nice but they don't do much in reality.

I'm not bashing you directly, Matty...but so many people can rant and rave about the war and add "but I support the troops" to the end and think they're right because of it. If you don't show support to them or don't stand behind their missions...you don't really support them.

It's like saying "I follow the law" and then don't pay your taxes because you disagree with them.

If you don't support what the troops live and die for...the jobs they sacrifice and dedicate their lives to...you don't really support them. You can't hate what they believe in (right now it's fighting terrorists and removing governments who support them), then they won't see what you mean when you say you "support" them. Our brave soldiers support their leaders, so if you say you don't...you're disagreeing with everything our troops are fighting for and therefore can't say you support them.

Sorry if the truth hurts.



This thread is NOT the place to talk about your feelings towards the President and to have a political debate. It's meant to be a memorial and a tribute.

To come in and say something like " However I have ZERO respect for the decision makers who have gotten us into this huge cluster-F of a war." is like playing Cindy Sheehan or that Westboro Baptist "church" and interrupting a funeral with protests.

Keep up the great work SBF.

If mods or anyone else is upset about my ranting and passion on this...I don't apologize. I DO support our troops and I'll fight for their good name when they're away fighting for my freedom.

If we ever had the current popular attitude and the treasonous media and politicians during other wars, we'd be a third-world communist nation today. Look what the once rich and powerful Soviet Union has disintegrated to...because they didn't stand up and fight for their rights and freedom. The Chinese let their government take care of them and they avoid conflicts, but, they have no freedom.

Those who have and still do fight and die to keep us free think the price is worth it. So do I.

Yes, what you are doing, the care packages, letters, and food is supporting the troops. It is more than i can say i am doing and more than most people do. That is a great thing. But, the fact that you agree or disagree with the war does not in any way affect your supporting the troops. If someone was completely against what is happening but still did the same amount of work you are doing, they are still supporting the troops as much as you do.

How can you say that people who are against the actions of the leaders of this country are against the troops. All of them, only wish that the soldiers get out safely and moreso that they get out as soon as possible. Why do you think that many people want the war to end? Its because we SUPPORT THE TROOPS and don't want to see any more blood lost for issues that we don't agree with. Saying that we are against the soldiers because we don't agree with the decisions that our leaders are making is a horrible and extremely illogical thing to say.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Thanks for HATE-jacking yet another one of my positive intended threads.

I guess it's all the fuck about you guys and yer opinions.
Some of ya'll make me fricking SICK.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Yes, what you are doing, the care packages, letters, and food is supporting the troops. It is more than i can say i am doing and more than most people do. That is a great thing. But, the fact that you agree or disagree with the war does not in any way affect your supporting the troops. If someone was completely against what is happening but still did the same amount of work you are doing, they are still supporting the troops as much as you do.

How can you say that people who are against the actions of the leaders of this country are against the troops. All of them, only wish that the soldiers get out safely and moreso that they get out as soon as possible. Why do you think that many people want the war to end? Its because we SUPPORT THE TROOPS and doen't want to see any more blood lost for issues that we don't agree with. Saying that we are against the soldiers because we don't agree with the decisions that our leaders are making is a horrible thing to say.

Well F'in said. I'll bow out on that note. Sorry for getting this thread sidetracked SBF, but I think unfortunately it's just the nature of this beast. It's hard to discuss one side without the other coming up.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

Thanks for HATE-jacking yet another one of my positive intended threads.

I guess it's all the fuck about you guys and yer opinions.
Some of ya'll make me fricking SICK.

Very christian-like.

Wow. Was that really necessary??

~shakes head and walks away.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Very christian-like.

Wow. Was that really necessary??

~shakes head and walks away.

Great now we're Christian bashing too.

I'm not perfect and in fact I get on my knees every night and ask forgivness from Jesus. I'm not perfect like Jesus tho I am trying I also fail because I'm simply a man.

Bash Jesus all you want Matt at the end you will answer to Him. Ya better hope you are right in your Christian bashing.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

Thanks for HATE-jacking yet another one of my positive intended threads.

I guess it's all the fuck about you guys and yer opinions.
Some of ya'll make me fricking SICK.

Seriously, man, what's the deal? Why is it always "your thread" and then F bombs start flying? I just can't get with that.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

Great now we're Christian bashing too.

I'm not perfect and in fact I get on my knees every night and ask forgivness from Jesus. I'm not perfect like Jesus tho I am trying I also fail because I'm simply a man.

Bash Jesus all you want Matt at the end you will answer to Him. Ya better hope you are right in your Christian bashing.

How am I bashing Jesus??

I'm just surprised that a man of faith can be so harsh in his language and reactions to his fellow man.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

PFC. Steven Alexander Davis

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

Thanks for HATE-jacking yet another one of my positive intended threads.

I guess it's all the fuck about you guys and yer opinions.
Some of ya'll make me fricking SICK.

Do you think post's like buster's that'll tell people who disagree with the war that they are against the troops is fine? I am seriously asking because i don't know where you would stand on that. As of December only 37% of the country felt it was worth going to war. I am sure that number is down even more now. Are all of these people against the troops? Do we harbor ill will towards them?

I stayed away from this thread even though i really really really wanted to respond when you said this

I have two sons serving right now so I'm sorry to some folks but it's personal to me andworth 3 months to argue back for our President and Country.

I didn't post in response because of respect and the truth is no on here has said or done anything to dishonor those that have died. No one is going to ban you for supporting your country.

I honestly feel the worst thing that we can do to the troops right now is to blindly follow and support the war. That is my opinion. I don't say that those that support the war hate the troops. I believe everyone wants what is best for them and we all just have different opinions on what is best.



Again only 37% said the war was worth it in december. What "worth" do you think was measured? It is the worth of the lvies that we are losing. The worth of the lives of the friends and family most of us have in the effort. Why should we let the children of this country die for something that we don't feel is worth their lives? How does that make us less american? How does the fact that we want their lives to only be called upon when it is the last resort make us not support them??

[12thMan]

SBF, or anyone else know how many Purple Hearts have been awarded?