State of the Union Speech

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I really don't see a reason for automatic weapons to be on the streets. You should have to jump through hoops to buy a gun, you shouldn't be able to waltz into your local Wal-Mart or go to a gun show and walk away fully loaded - often without even showing an ID.

This country sure loves it's guns. No big surprise we're such a violent society as well.

Several points
Auto weapons are not now and to my knowledge ever been legal to own except with the appropriate Federal Licensure.
The ownership of guns do not cause someone to be violent.
The Fed could get more cooperation from John Q gunowner if:
1) They're proposed programs would not be largely ineffectual....EX "war on drugs" and just window dressing for the occasional public outcry.
2) IF the justice system worked.
Lets face it the Fed does not have a good track record with programs...Hell, they can't seem how to get the borders closed

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Several points
Auto weapons are not now and to my knowledge ever been legal to own except with the appropriate Federal Licensure.
The ownership of guns do not cause someone to be violent.
The Fed could get more cooperation from John Q gunowner if:
1) They're proposed programs would not be largely ineffectual....EX "war on drugs" and just window dressing for the occasional public outcry.
2) IF the justice system worked.
Lets face it the Fed does not have a good track record with programs...Hell, they can't seem how to get the borders closed

Do you at least agree it's way too easy for someone to buy a gun?

I never said guns cause violence, but a violent society where it's hella easy to buy guns = problems

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you at least agree it's way too easy for someone to buy a gun?

I never said guns cause violence, but a violent society where it's hella easy to buy guns = problems

Under the circumstances.....much as it pains me......yes, cause I love the gun shows.
BUT, mostly you only punish law abiding types with these measures. Thugs and felons will always find a way until a reason is presented that overrides that desire to do so.....
NOTE: To my knowledge you cannot legally buy any gun in any state without a paper trail and/or background check....gun show or no.
**Fix the violence....the gun did not do it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Under the circumstances.....much as it pains me......yes, cause I love the gun shows.
BUT, mostly you only punish law abiding types with these measures. Thugs and felons will always find a way until a reason is presented that overrides that desire to do so.....
NOTE: To my knowledge you cannot legally buy any gun in any state without a paper trail and/or background check....gun show or no.
**Fix the violence....the gun did not do it.

I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.

[MTK]

Guns are an accessory to the violence though. I don't agree with absolving guns and saying they are no factor. In the world of violence, guns are absolutely an issue.

Sure people will always find a way to get their hands on them. But that doesn't mean we should toss up our hands and say oh well we can't have more strict measures in place regarding control and safety. I mean that's like saying people are always going to get in to car accidents, so let's not bother with a seatbelt law, or an insurance requirement.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Guns are an accessory to the violence though. I don't agree with absolving guns and saying they are no factor. In the world of violence, guns are absolutely an issue.

Sure people will always find a way to get their hands on them. But that doesn't mean we should toss up our hands and say oh well we can't have more strict measures in place regarding control and safety. I mean that's like saying people are always going to get in to car accidents, so let's not bother with a seatbelt law, or an insurance requirement.

And I did not advocate that here....nor would I. The problem to date has been the ridiculous Federal mandates such as the crux of the original "assault weapons ban"...pure window dressing for an ignorant public accomplishing nothing more than driving up the cost of "ban weapons" with some fortunes being made as a result. I made a few bucks on that Jackassery myself.
BUT the Fed is rather famous for stupid plans...more of the same and I am confident the NRA will respond similarly.
AND, the guns STILL are not the root problem. Until we want to take off the blinders and TRULY attack some social issues where they live, your just punishing millions of legit.....harmless....legal citizens to stop a few.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.

I stand corrected.
I thought everywhere was at least tough as Florida. You can purchase a used "long gun" from an individual, but some type of paper must be filed. I think that one gets violated on a regular basis. Any new long gun gets some dealer paper filed and there is naturally a background check/waiting period for handgun purchase unless you have a carry permit in which case the background check has already been done.

[Tiggwin]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.

Well in VA at a gun show you CAN buy a gun without a background check.. What they do is sell the weapon in peices so you arent buying a whole gun at once.. You buy once piece from one table.. and another piece from another table. Since you arent being sold a whole weapon by either vendor there isnt a requirement on either vendor to do a background check.

Now with all that said I agree with the 2nd amendment and my right to bear arms. I also agree that the only people that would be effected by any kind of prohibition of guns or banning would be the law abiding citizen that follows the law because it is the law. The criminal who doesnt give a rip about the law in the first place would still be armed to the teeth... double edge sword. Damned if you do and Damned if you dont. With that being the case I err on the side of Dont because at least that way the common criminal isnt the only one able to be armed.

[firstdown]

I thought the way they get around the background check is the individuals selling them to another individual. If there was a lic gun dealer at the show they had to do a back ground check. Its funny that the person who puts on these gun shows is a big liberal and very active in the Democrat party.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

i thought the way they get around the background check is the individuals selling them to another individual. If there was a lic gun dealer at the show they had to do a back ground check. Its funny that the person who puts on these gun shows is a big liberal and very active in the democrat party.

yo'.....

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

yo'.....

What are you trying to say?

[Hog1]

your explanation is correct.....yo

[Tiggwin]

There is also no requirement for a background check when the weapon is sold in pieces because its not an operable weapon.