Updated Title: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Reinstated

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wait, wait, wait, Obama is not Muslim? Let me get this right... his father was Muslim, he was born in a Muslim country, he gets sent to Muslim schools growing up, his father listed Obama's faith as Muslim on the school documents,

And all because he files a Cirtificate of Live Birth in Hawaii and the paper reads "RECEIVED" (in 2005) which only means the paper was filled out and sent to them, not reading "FILED" which is how most read when they have been co-oberated by the hospital which the title of the hospital did not exist back at the time Obama was supposedly born and didn't take on the hospital name until well into the 70's...

Does not mean Obama is a Christian. A lot of people change faiths especially if it benefits them.

Please say you are being sarcastic. Please.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wait, wait, wait, Obama is not Muslim? Let me get this right... his father was Muslim, he was born in a Muslim country, he gets sent to Muslim schools growing up, his father listed Obama's faith as Muslim on the school documents,

And all because he files a Cirtificate of Live Birth in Hawaii and the paper reads "RECEIVED" (in 2005) which only means the paper was filled out and sent to them, not reading "FILED" which is how most read when they have been co-oberated by the hospital which the title of the hospital did not exist back at the time Obama was supposedly born and didn't take on the hospital name until well into the 70's...

Does not mean Obama is a Christian. A lot of people change faiths especially if it benefits them.

[saden1]

Stupid = Ignorant?

[MTK]

Yet another thread heading straight to the crapper.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yet another thread heading straight to the crapper.

To quote an idiot..."Intelligent fan I can read, rambling [stupid] fan I can not."

There is no hope.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by saden1

To quote an idiot..."Intelligent fan I can read, rambling [stupid] fan I can not."

There is no hope.

Hey, I resemble that remark.

Good job my friend.

[Hog1]

The off-season is an merciless mistress...........

[SirClintonPortis]

Obama's platform was so far to the left that a group of radical Muslims might have killed him on the spot if given the information.

[SmootSmack]

Let's keep this thread on track

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's keep this thread on track

........good luck.

[CRedskinsRule]

closer (and again, when I say that I mean to my understanding, which is not legally certified)

By decertifying, the players put the owners in a no win situation. If they lockout, that is legally illegal (meaning it violates anti trust). If they play with any set of agreed rules, it is legally illegal. The only legally legal option would be to remove all barriers to player movement (draft, FA, Franchise tags, salary cap/floor, etc) and allow all movement. The owners will not do that because they then have no position to bargain.

Your last sentence:

Now it's in the courts hands. The owners are hoping the courts will be fair and say they can keep the extra billion or atleast split it 50/50. The players are hoping the courts look at it and say no the owners can not take away from what you already have.

is where you get way off track. The courts cannot, and will not mandate any type of pay, or what is appropriate compensation and/or split of revenue.

Instead, the court will rule on the legality of a) the de-certification, and b) the ensuing lockout. If the courts say the decertification is invalid, or that it is the NLRB's place to make that decision, then the owners get a significant win, and hopefully the players come back more willing to find agreement. If the courts say that the decertification stands, then they will have to say the lockout is invalid, and the owners can follow three options:
1) put temp rules in place and get a deal done to avoid anti trust lawsuits (most likely imo)
2) put no rules in place and allow all movement, no restrictions, and then fight for CBA without as much threat of anti-trust lawsuits(not really likely because of the precedents and weak bargaining position)
3) shut down NFL offices, and void the league, allowing teams to create new and competing leagues (nuclear option if everything goes against the owners, mostly scare tactic with no real chance of happening)

Hopefully, once the Jun 3rd hearing takes place and a decision is made both sides will finally negotiate properly.

[SBXVII]

^ understood. Yeah, I figured both sides are stretching the truth and somewhere in between the truth lies.

[SBXVII]

In a nut shell it still sounds to me like the players should be at fault for the majority of all this.

I know the owners gave a crappy deal. I don't dispute that. But right now no one can say if the negotiations kept going that at the 12 o'clock hour both sides might have agreed to another extention since progress was being made. Just like we really don't know if no progress would have been made and no extention, CBA expires, and the players forced to wait 6 months to do anything. But thats my point, 6 hours might have been a completely different story but the players chose not to sit and even try to work out a deal, they chose to walk out.

In almost any negotiation even though one side says this is the final offer, it can be negotiated and in this case it sounds or looks like it was never attempted.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

In a nut shell it still sounds to me like the players should be at fault for the majority of all this.

I know the owners gave a crappy deal. I don't dispute that. But right now no one can say if the negotiations kept going that at the 12 o'clock hour both sides might have agreed to another extention since progress was being made. Just like we really don't know if no progress would have been made and no extention, CBA expires, and the players forced to wait 6 months to do anything. But thats my point, 6 hours might have been a completely different story but the players chose not to sit and even try to work out a deal, they chose to walk out.

In almost any negotiation even though one side says this is the final offer, it can be negotiated and in this case it sounds or looks like it was never attempted.

I agree with this.

The problem from the players perspective is that for 6 months they would have had near zero leverage, while the owners still could have, and likely would have locked them out. So the question for the union was will their membership withstand a 6 month lockout and still be in the mood for a lengthy legal battle. The leadership figured no.

Both sides had 2+ years to sit and truly negotiate, and instead spent most of that time posturing, and angering the other side's leadership. That animosity isn't just going to disappear...

(I will add a jab at the out of whack judiciary that has basically emboldened the players union to try tactics that have never been used before (that I could find), and that will only continue when Doty rules in the next week that the players are due some humongous damage settlement which the NFL will then put back in the 8th district court of appeals. I would not be shocked for Doty to rule that the players are due the whole 4Billion, 1.5 Billion as split of revenue, and 2.5B as damages) with the whole amount put in escrow pending resolution.)

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

In a nut shell it still sounds to me like the players should be at fault for the majority of all this. .

Absolutely and totally 100% false. No idea where you are coming up with that crap, but the federal mediator that was overseeing this bargaining even stated that there obviously no use in continuing the discussions because they were both at sticking points that neither were budging on. I posted this a while back when it was said. So this whole notion that the players didn't try to negotiate till the final hour is a bit misguided.


Again, they would still be under the same CBA and rules had the owners not opted out 2 years ago. This squarely is on the shoulders of the owners, not the players.