ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

[30gut]

I figured since I posted a game breakdown of Gabbert that I should at least post one about the player in the OP:

Originally Posted by darrelgreenie

Anyway from watching this game specifically:


These are the plays that stood out to me. (Many of them are time marked so you can jump to those specific plays)

1) Shotgun Play Action then Pump Fake WR screen left-(plenty of time in a clean pocket) then hits the right side WR on a deep Slant-Seam route. OT+ TAR+ IS+ from Auburn's 15 yd line to USC's 25 yard a 40+ yard through w/ ease good footwork nice release

3) Shotgun escapes sack starts to scramble up the middle with his eyes downfield spots the RB and makes a nifty shovel pass flick to the RB:50s

4) Shotgun 2 step drop clean footwork throws in rhythm sideline hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS+ quick release ball got there in a hurry

5) Shotgun takes off jukes the hell out of the spy gains 14+ yards gets down to avoid hit-great run

8) Shotgun PA half roll out- pressure in the face- makes nice touch pass on TE drag left to right OT+ TAR+ IS+ 2:24s

9) Shotgun Pump n Go right sideline vs all out blitz picked up beautifully- delivers OT+ TAR+ IS+
to wide open Darvin Adams TD!
...from Auburn 35 to their 30 about a 40 yard throw on a line w/ late pressure closing in 2:37s

**10) Shotgun drop backs hits left WR on a 12 yd comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+ ball got there in a hurry

15) Shotgun-dash right no pressure keeps eyes downfield, pressure comes throws a shuffle/scramble throws goofy foot fading away arm pass OT+ OT- IS- 3:13s

18) Shotgun dash right from their 45 to the 3 yards deep in the endzone steps into uncorks it looks like he had plenty of arm left (50+ yard throw) TD

21) Shotgun PA feels and avoids pressure scrambles effortlessly to his left for a 20 yard gain (this run was Randall Cunninghamesque)

**22) (Plenty of time/clean pocket) Shotgun straight drop back-maintains good helmet discipline down the center of the field until the last second when he looks/pivots left and hits a WR that beat the CB on and out and up and Cam beat the Safety w/ the good eye discipline and throw (from the 50 to the 10 40 yd throw w/ ease) OT+ TAR+ IS+ 4:22s

24) Shotgun zone read keeper runs left full speed jump-cut to pick up the 1st down nice play -gifted open field runner 5:38

25) Shotgun Pump & Go (clean pocket) slot wheel route right steps up throws OT+ TAR+ IS+


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by darrelgreenie

The FIRST game we'll look at for Cam Newton is the SEC Championship Game v South Carolina available here:
Heisman Hopeful Cameron Newton Season Highlights (vids)

**We couldn't fine a true game cut-up the above clip has all of Newton's completion instead of all Newton's passes.

Part I

Passing Chart:

KEY:
OT: (+/-)on time/in rhythm
TAR- (+/-) on target catchable ball (above the waist not above the shoulders within arm's length)
IS- (+/-) in stride
**Good plays/NFL ability in Bolded in Orange
Sienna color negative plays

1) Shotgun Play Action then Pump Fake WR screen left-(plenty of time in a clean pocket) then hits the right side WR on a deep Slant-Seam route. OT+ TAR+ IS+ from Auburn's 15 yd line to USC's 25 yard a 40+ yard through w/ ease good footwork nice release

2) Shotgun-has all day stays in the pocket reads through his progressions shuffles left keeps his eyes down field and throws on the run goofy footed/fading back arm throw but OT+ TAR+ IS n/a

3) Shotgun escapes sack starts to scramble up the middle with his eyes downfield spots the RB and makes a nifty shovel pass flick to the RB:50s

4) Shotgun 2 step drop clean footwork throws in rhythm sideline hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS+ quick release ball got there in a hurry

5) Shotgun takes off jukes the hell out of the spy gains 14+ yards gets down to avoid hit-great run

6) Shotgun PA-evades sack scrambles right keeps eyes upfield hits 10 sideline pass OT+ TAR+ IS n/a throws on the run goofy foot again (off his right leg) but makes an accurate

7) Shotgun PA zone read QB draw powers through 2 tackles for the TD

8) Shotgun PA half roll out- pressure in the face- makes nice touch pass on TE drag left to right OT+ TAR+ IS+ 2:24s

9) Shotgun Pump n Go right sideline vs all out blitz picked up beautifully- delivers OT+ TAR+ IS+
to wide open Darvin Adams TD!
...from Auburn 35 to their 30 about a 40 yard throw on a line w/ late pressure closing in 2:37s

**10) Shotgun drop backs hits left WR on a 12 yd comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+ ball got there in a hurry

11) Shotgun PA swing pass OT+ TAR+ IS+

12-13) 2 designed QB runs= 1st down

14) Under Center PA evades sacks by juking DL in the backfield keeps eyes upfield hits RB on swing/flat right OT+ TAR+ IS+

15) Shotgun-dash right no pressure keeps eyes downfield, pressure comes throws a shuffle/scramble throws goofy foot fading away arm pass OT+ OT- IS- 3:13s

16) Shotgun PA sideline WR hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS

17) Shotgun PA sideline WR hitch right OT+ TAR+ IS+

18) Shotgun dash right from their 45 to the 3 yards deep in the endzone steps into uncorks it looks like he had plenty of arm left (50+ yard throw) TD

19) Pistol WR screen L

20) Pistol slot comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+

21) Shotgun PA feels and avoids pressure scrambles effortlessly to his left for a 20 yard gain (this run was Randall Cunninghamesque)

**22) (Plenty of time/clean pocket) Shotgun straight drop back-maintains good helmet discipline down the center of the field until the last second when he looks/pivots left and hits a WR that beat the CB on and out and up and Cam beat the Safety w/ the good eye discipline and throw (from the 50 to the 10 40 yd throw w/ ease) OT+ TAR+ IS+ 4:22s

23) Shotgun zone read QB dive trucks the LB for a TD

24) Shotgun zone read keeper runs left full speed jump-cut to pick up the 1st down nice play -gifted open field runner 5:38

25) Shotgun Pump & Go (clean pocket) slot wheel route right steps up throws OT+ TAR+ IS+


For this game:
Instincts+Intuition- 4 made plays no mistakes fumbles/ints
Competitiveness -4
Arm Strength -5 (self evident)
Complete Inventory of passes -5
Quick Delivery -4
Touch- 3 (judging from stats here b/c the incompletions weren't shown but 17/28 w/ 60.7% likely includes some mistakes/missed a few throws)
Read defense -3 (offense didn't require much reading of coverages but executed the offense and made his progressions made good decisions)
Mobility+Avoidance -5
Function while injured - N/A
Not easily rattled-4
Spontaneous decision/play making -5

My questions/nit-picks on Cam:
o sometimes throws arm passes without stepping into the throw
o he'll have to get used to seeing the field and making his progressions from undercenter
o after playing behind an OL that kept him well protected we'll have to see how he handles things when his process is sped up and he's getting hit

Newton is a talent.
He has all the physical tools: big time arm, great mobility, solid mechanics, nice compact throwing motion w/ quick release.
A lot of his offense doesn't translate directly into the NFL but some of it does and a QB w/ his tools in the hands of the right QB mentor in the right situation has great upside.
I wouldn't mind that place being here in DC but looking at the QBs from Kyle Shanahan's vantage point I have a hard time reconciling Kyle Shanahan's statements on Tebow last year: w/ him wanting to draft a player like Cam. (If he's even available I doubt it, my money has Newton going to Chan Gailey and the Bills)

Originally Posted by darrelgreenie

(I just realized that we haven't commented much on each other's breakdowns in the Locker and Gabbert threads)

Reading your breakdown we saw a lot of the same things.
These throws stood out to me: On your chart passes: 1,2,4,6,8,17,25-(mine1,2,4,8,10,22,25)
I think its evident from these that Newton has an above average arm and solid mechanics/compact motion/quick release.
But passes 2,17 and 18 really show his NFL potential he hangs in the pocket goes through his progressions and really makes some nice throws; on pass 17 he holds the Safety in the middle of the field with his eyes.
He does a good job of keeping his eyes downfield and his playmaking is evident.

But for the most part he's very well protected this game.
I want to see a game where a team gets pressure on him.
He sometimes throws off balance off his back foot or goofy footed (Rodgers often throws goofy foot when he scrambles) but he's got enough arm where its not a problem.
Like many spread QBs he's gonna have to get comfortable with operating under center.

[NC_Skins]

The lights are flashing, the red flags are waving furiously so it's going to interesting to see what idiot team drafts Newton.

I don't see how in your right mind you could select this guy as a top pick (in the first 2 rounds) to be your future QB.

Let's review.

Cam Newton views himself as 'an entertainer and icon' - The Huddle: Football News from the NFL - USATODAY.com

Newton: "I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon.''

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Mixed reviews for Newton after hyped workout «

Today showed he’s not very comfortable in three- and five-step drops, and there’s a lot of work to be done.

Cam Newton gets mixed reviews at Indy combine - ESPN

Listen to Todd McShay's radio interview on Mike and Mike. He talks about how Newton didn't do very well in the interviews.


http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/...gs_NFL%20Draft

Even more of a concern, however, is that the reigning Heisman winner is also struggling answering football questions during team interviews at the Combine.

NFLDraftScout.com has learned that at least two teams gave Newton poor grades for his "football character" following interviewing him at the Combine. Newton, according to league sources, had a difficult time drawing up plays and how to react to different defensive schemes when asked to work on the white board.

It's amazing this guy is still being talked about being drafted in the first round. Smart teams and GMs will avoid this guy like the plague. Bad ones on the other hand will most likely pick him up.

[wilsowilso]

Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.

I was also using the four years of trash known as his college career.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

I was also using the four years of trash known as his college career.

His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.

I liked Freeman's intangibles and decision making a hell of a lot more than Locker's. That "bad" supporting cast thing isn't a very good argument IMO either.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

I liked Freeman's intangibles and decision making a hell of a lot more than Locker's. That "bad" supporting cast thing isn't a very good argument IMO either.

The bad supporting cast isn't an 'argument' its either a true statement or its not.
And although you might not agree it is in fact something scouts consider when assessing a player case in point Josh Freeman.
If you follow the draft process at all you should know who Gil Brandt is and the weight his opinions carry:

Originally Posted by Gil Brandt:

I probably differ with the questioner a little bit. I think Josh Freeman from Kansas State has a chance to be a very good quarterback in the NFL, just as Daunte Culpepper was with the Vikings when he was healthy. Freeman played on a poor team in 2008, and if you look at what he did in 2007, you’d be pretty excited about what he could do for your team in 2010. Freeman has tremendous upside. As a point of reference, look at Kansas State’s game against Texas in 2007, when he led the Wildcats to a 41-21 victory in Austin, Tex.

Draft Q. & A. With Gil Brandt - NYTimes.com

Nothing against Freeman's intangibles but if there is one area where Locker is at the top its intangibles.
Locker is about as clean a prospect from an intangibles view point as Tim Tebow.

We get that you don't like Jake Locker as a prospect but you don't need to invent spurious reasons to support your view.

Jake Locker wether you agree or not is one of the top rated QBs in this draft class for a reason.

[Terpfan76]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.

Also he managed to lead his team to a victory in the bowl game vs. Nebraska, no small feat mind you.
I also get that you don't like Locker, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But what exactly is it that makes Gabbert this superior prospect in your eyes? When you get down to brass tacks, Locker has everything a team would want in a franchise qb except for the accuracy issues in the pocket. What matters from there is whether or not a teams coaching staff feels that the accuracy issues are fixable. If they are, then I really don't see what any of the other qbs bring to the table that is superior to Locker.
Either way, I still say we pass on a qb this year and fill other holes. Look to draft one next year in what appears to be a deeper pool.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Terpfan76

Also he managed to lead his team to a victory in the bowl game vs. Nebraska, no small feat mind you.
I also get that you don't like Locker, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But what exactly is it that makes Gabbert this superior prospect in your eyes? When you get down to brass tacks, Locker has everything a team would want in a franchise qb except for the accuracy issues in the pocket. What matters from there is whether or not a teams coaching staff feels that the accuracy issues are fixable. If they are, then I really don't see what any of the other qbs bring to the table that is superior to Locker.
Either way, I still say we pass on a qb this year and fill other holes. Look to draft one next year in what appears to be a deeper pool.

Isn't that like saying that "He has everything that a team needs in a #1 receiver except for speed, agility, and hands"?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.

If you look more closely, you will see that I mentioned his entire senior year, not just the Senior Bowl. If you want to understand his inaccuracy you'll look at his entire college career.

The Senior Bowl is only one game, as you intimate. But dismissing the Senior Bowl is foolish. In the Senior Bowl Locker played with the best, just like he will do in the NFL. And he was terrible.

[BuckSkin]

Dang it 30, I get it.....you think Locker is the choice at 10. However I avoided the Locker thread because of the essays you were posting there. They honestly are bordering on the absurd. This is the Cam Newton thread...granted you alone didn't take it off course, but you have managed to force it down a singular path. I appreciate your infatuation with stats and draft knowledge, but damn man......relax.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by BuckSkin

Dang it 30, I get it.....you think Locker is the choice at 10....This is the Cam Newton thread...granted you alone didn't take it off course, but you have managed to force it down a singular path. I appreciate your infatuation with stats and draft knowledge, but damn man......relax.

Well, Dang It BuckSkin it frustrates me when people like you make false assumptions about what I think.

First of I gotta call BS on your false finger pointing and whining.
My posts in this thread included complete game passing charts and assessments not of Locker but of Gabbert and Newton.
Other then my initial response to Dirtbag which contain more info about Gabbert then Locker you'll only find 1 other post about Locker which again was a response to Earthquake.
Since you appointed yourself the resident fascist I don't think 2 post warrants this level of whining.

Since you appear to follow my posts you should see that my post are usually responses to specific statements that other members post that I think are false or inaccurate.

And btw-If you haven't realized it yet this is actually an interent discussion forum so people are gonna have discussions.

I appreciate your concern but why don't you worry less about policing my posts and bring some football discussion to the table yourself.
Because that's why I post to discuss football not to bicker.

Hail

[Terpfan76]

So what would be your idea of accurate then? How do you define it? What numbers are you looking for?

Personally, I feel a lot of his accuracy issues may well stem from the quality of protection he had. The guy may well have had issues in the pocket due to the fact that he rarely ever had time to make his reads and got hit enough to become gun shy or hurried. He's the type of qb you take with the idea of giving him at least a year to sit and learn. Let him play in low stress situations where any mistakes he may make will have no impact on the outcome of the game so he can get a feel for the speed of the NFL. If you are drafting Locker to start in 2011, you're making a mistake. If you are drafting him to play in 2012 or 2013, then you just may be on to something. Honestly, none of the qbs in this class should be looked upon as 2011 starters, they just aren't that good.
I am however curious about Pat Devlin and intrigued by the Dalton kid. I'm interested in seeing how they all compare at the combine.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Terpfan76

Personally, I feel a lot of his accuracy issues may well stem from the quality of protection he had. The guy may well have had issues in the pocket due to the fact that he rarely ever had time to make his reads and got hit enough to become gun shy or hurried.

I concur.
I think if Locker was as well protected as some of the other top QB prospects the perception of him would be different.

I am however curious about Pat Devlin and intrigued by the Dalton kid. I'm interested in seeing how they all compare at the combine.

I'm not high on the Devlin kid I think people make the Flacco connection for obvious reasons but people forget that Flacco has a hand cannon that he showed off at the combine.

I like the Dalton in a second tier group of QBs after Newton, Gabbert, Locker and Mallett.

But, I like Stanzi and Ponder more...
My reasoning on Ponder/Stanzi:

While Ponder's isn't a great athlete he's a better one then people realize (better then Stanzi imo) and I suspect has a better arm then people think.
*For some reason especially around draft time people start talking about elite arm strength as if its the average in the NFL but its not.
There are plenty of good QBs w/ average arm strength; hence the term average but I digress.
I think Ponder has adequate NFL arm strength at least as much as Colt McCoy.
He has good size.
He's a senior in an pro-style offense those 2 traits are bug pluses for him.
As a senior he should be more of leader, playing in a pro-style offense he has experience doing some pre-snap reads and following progressions from under center while executing 3-5-7 step drops.
Ponder's footwork is clean and light, he has a solid consistent throwing motion.
He's been well protected and has experince getting to his 2nd and 3rd progressions.
But.
He has those injury concerns w/ his shoulder.
Despite being a 4 year player in a pro-style offense doesn't have bigtime production or efficieny numbers.(compared to Locker w/ only 2 years in a pro-style offense w/ limited talent the efficeincy numbers aren't significanlty different imo)

Stanzi shares the same traits I mentioned as positives for Ponder.
But, imo Stanzi has classic over the top throwing motion w/ the bigger arm then Ponder and proto-typical size w/o injury concerns.
Early in this draft thread I had to remind my boy Steve that 'pick 6 rick' was up there w/ everyone's darling Andrew Luck from an efficiency stand point.
And although Stanzi is also well protected he wasn't given the Fort Knox type protection afforded to Andrew Luck.
Although the great american isn't a great athlete he moves around pretty good and can throw on the run.
The main thing keeping him from the top tier QB in my eyes is lack of elite arm strength and limited playmaking ability.
But seems like a post 2nd round-mid-round QB that can come in and execute your offense w/ efficiency maybe even as rookie (ala Kyle Orton).

Neither here nor there but his over the top throwing motion and size and number remind of Brady (note I'm not saying he's the next Brady).

[BuckSkin]

In reviewing this thread 30 I'm willing to concede it was not you who led this thread astray. However there is a difference between the mere mention of a QB and the inculcation of one. I've neither the time nor desire to argue through the next 5 pages on pocket accuracy, footwork or intangibles of Locker. It'll just end in your frustration of not being able to convert me to the Locker camp. BTW, I prefer discouraged Nationalist over whiny fascist.