Supreme Court vacancy

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

I already regret jumping in.

Yeah, should stayed out. But at least I got my favorite comment on the board: “Chico…STFU”

[mooby]

Originally Posted by MTK

I already regret jumping in.

+1

It's like watching the shit winds blow - and you decide to go stand outside to gaze in amazement.

[SunnySide]

The second trimester marks the onset of other critical reflexes: continuous breathing movements (that is, rhythmic contractions of the diaphragm and chest muscles) and coordinated sucking and swallowing reflexes. These abilities are controlled by the brainstem, which sits above the spinal cord but below the higher, more recently-evolved cerebral cortex. The brainstem is responsible for many of our body’s most vital functions–heart rate, breathing, and blood pressure. It is largely mature by the end of the second trimester, which is when babies first become able to survive outside the womb.

Last of all to mature is the cerebral cortex, which is responsible for most of what we think of as mental life–conscious experience, voluntary actions, thinking, remembering, and feeling. It has only begun to function around the time gestation comes to an end.

https://www.zerotothree.org/resource...-begin-to-work

The second trimester of pregnancy is often called the "golden period" because many of the unpleasant effects of early pregnancy disappear. During the second trimester, you're likely to experience decreased nausea, better sleep patterns and an increased energy level. However, you may experience a whole new set of symptoms, such as back pain, abdominal pain, leg cramps, constipation and heartburn.

Somewhere between 16 weeks and 20 weeks, you may feel your baby's first fluttering movements.

https://www.ucsfhealth.org/condition...ncy/trimesters

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about 1.3 percent of abortions were performed at or greater than 21 weeks of gestation in 2015. In contrast, 91.1 percent were performed at or before 13 weeks and 7.6 percent at 14 to 20 weeks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...-who-get-them/

https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3

We can all have our own line and opinion of when a fetus becomes a human being. We can disagree on where that line should be but I think we all agree that it does come down to a subjective decision in the end.

I think 20 weeks is my line.

A fetus cortex isnt developed yet, its cerebral cortex doesnt begin to develop until 24 weeks. The cerebral cortex is what makes us sentient beings. Its what makes us a living animal vs a living plant or tree. A fetus cant feel pain until the cerebral cortex is beginning to develop. Fetal movement in response to a prode is not fetal pain.

I view the religious rights push to ban abortion to be strictly based in their religious beliefs. The "life begins at conception" is not an honest argument based on science but a religious view point being used to try and guide laws and legislature.

For the religious right .. its not about science. Its about pushing their religious view points on all of us.

Keep your religion out of my government, man.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

The second trimester marks the onset of other critical reflexes: continuous breathing movements (that is, rhythmic contractions of the diaphragm and chest muscles) and coordinated sucking and swallowing reflexes. These abilities are controlled by the brainstem, which sits above the spinal cord but below the higher, more recently-evolved cerebral cortex. The brainstem is responsible for many of our body’s most vital functions–heart rate, breathing, and blood pressure. It is largely mature by the end of the second trimester, which is when babies first become able to survive outside the womb.

Last of all to mature is the cerebral cortex, which is responsible for most of what we think of as mental life–conscious experience, voluntary actions, thinking, remembering, and feeling. It has only begun to function around the time gestation comes to an end.

https://www.zerotothree.org/resource...-begin-to-work

The second trimester of pregnancy is often called the "golden period" because many of the unpleasant effects of early pregnancy disappear. During the second trimester, you're likely to experience decreased nausea, better sleep patterns and an increased energy level. However, you may experience a whole new set of symptoms, such as back pain, abdominal pain, leg cramps, constipation and heartburn.

Somewhere between 16 weeks and 20 weeks, you may feel your baby's first fluttering movements.

https://www.ucsfhealth.org/condition...ncy/trimesters

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about 1.3 percent of abortions were performed at or greater than 21 weeks of gestation in 2015. In contrast, 91.1 percent were performed at or before 13 weeks and 7.6 percent at 14 to 20 weeks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...-who-get-them/

https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3

We can all have our own line and opinion of when a fetus becomes a human being. We can disagree on where that line should be but I think we all agree that it does come down to a subjective decision in the end.

I think 20 weeks is my line.

A fetus cortex isnt developed yet, its cerebral cortex doesnt begin to develop until 24 weeks. The cerebral cortex is what makes us sentient beings. Its what makes us a living animal vs a living plant or tree. A fetus cant feel pain until the cerebral cortex is beginning to develop. Fetal movement in response to a prode is not fetal pain.

I view the religious rights push to ban abortion to be strictly based in their religious beliefs. The "life begins at conception" is not an honest argument based on science but a religious view point being used to try and guide laws and legislature.

For the religious right .. its not about science. Its about pushing their religious view points on all of us.

Keep your religion out of my government, man.

Stop trying to bring science into my faith man. What has science ever done for us that blind faith hasn't?

[MTK]

Biden has to bulk up so he can battle JFK Jr upon his return

[SunnySide]

Feinstein then outright asked Kavanaugh what he meant by “settled law” and whether he believed Roe v. Wade to be correct law. Kavanaugh said he believed it was “settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court” and should be “entitled the respect under principles of stare decisis,” the notion that precedents should not be overturned without strong reason.

“And one of the important things to keep in mind about Roe v. Wade is that it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years, as you know, and most prominently, most importantly, reaffirmed in Planned Parenthood v. Casey in 1992,” Kavanaugh said then.

Shortly afterward, Feinstein interrupted Kavanaugh to note that she had sat through nine confirmation hearings for Supreme Court justices, who had expressed similar sentiments about stare decisis.

“And when the subject comes up, the person says, ‘I will follow stare decisis,’ and they get confirmed, and then, of course, they do not,” she told Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh did not answer Feinstein directly, instead pivoting to how he understood “how passionate and how deeply people feel about this issue.” He went on at length to talk about how Planned Parenthood v. Casey had reaffirmed Roe, making it “a precedent on precedent.”

“I understand the importance of the issue. I understand the importance that people attach to the Roe v. Wade decision, to the Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision,” Kavanaugh said. “I do not live in a bubble. I understand. I live in the real world. I understand the importance of the issue.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...tion-decision/


Lets see how this plays out. No opinion is out yet.

Ignoring precedent and kicking this to the States is a political opinion.

If the SCOTUS becomes political .. it ceases to be viewed as an important independent check n balance to our 3 branch system.

Justices are supposed to follow the law, not their own deeply held religious beliefs and political ethos.

[nonniey]

For those gnashing their teeth over Mississsippi's abortion law. You should know that its' law is in line with the vast majority of European Countries (and even still more permissive - 12-14 weeks being the norm). It's the US that is out of sync with the rest of the world on what is permissible when it comes to abortion. In other words we've implemented the extreme position of abortion legality.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by nonniey

For those gnashing their teeth over Mississsippi's abortion law. You should know that its' law is in line with the vast majority of European Countries (and even still more permissive - 12-14 weeks being the norm). It's the US that is out of sync with the rest of the world on what is permissible when it comes to abortion. In other words we've implemented the extreme position of abortion legality.

So do you look to the Europe when it comes to universal healthcare and free education ?

Be careful Chico will label u a national socialist bernie bro commie.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by punch it in

So do you look to the Europe when it comes to universal healthcare and free education ?

No, but I do like to point out that Mississippi's law is not in the least bit extreme, it is what is currently allowed in the United State that is extreme relative to what is permitted in the rest of the world (the most extreme at that as only 5 other countries permit what we do).

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by nonniey

No, but I do like to point out that Mississippi's law is not in the least bit extreme, it is what is currently allowed in the United State that is extreme relative to what is permitted in the rest of the world (the most extreme at that as only 5 other countries permit what we do).

Fair enough. I’ll borrow from your measuring stick logic during our next conversation about universal healthcare and or free education….
Just for the record i have no problem with lowering the legal term for abortion. Not 12 weeks but 20.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

For those gnashing their teeth over Mississsippi's abortion law. You should know that its' law is in line with the vast majority of European Countries (and even still more permissive - 12-14 weeks being the norm). It's the US that is out of sync with the rest of the world on what is permissible when it comes to abortion. In other words we've implemented the extreme position of abortion legality.

You are leaving out the part where most European countries allow abortions past their cutoff mark for "broad socio-economic and mental health" reasons.

I have no idea how many abortions are performed in each European country past their cut off date but from what Im reading .. its broad and liberal.

The Mississippi law only allows exceptions for medical emergency or "severe fetal abnormality".

If a 19 year old that is 18 weeks pregnant can say she wants an abortion bc shes a student or working pay check to pay check and she can then get an exception to the 15 weeks ... thats far different from the reality of the Mississippi law.

inverse example (and maybe a bad example) but 45 States have exceptions for minors to drink alcohol but no one would say the drinking age in America is 16.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...law-compares-/


https://reproductiverights.org/wp-co...ive-review.pdf

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

You are leaving out the part where most European countries allow abortions past their cutoff mark for "broad socio-economic and mental health" reasons.

I have no idea how many abortions are performed in each European country past their cut off date but from what Im reading .. its broad and liberal.

The Mississippi law only allows exceptions for medical emergency or "severe fetal abnormality". ........

That is a bit of a stretch. Mississippi's exceptions for medical emergency or "severe fetal abnormality" is similar to European exceptions or in other words about as "broad and liberal." Of the examples below I prefer the French policy.

Germany - permits late-term abortions in cases of rape or if the physical or psychological health of the mother is considered at risk of serious harm.
(vice any medical reason, even temporary, for the US).

France - Abortions in the second and third trimesters are permitted only if two physicians certify that it is necessary to save the life of the mother, to prevent grave and permanent harm to her health, or the child has a severe and incurable illness.

UK - permits abortion for socio-economic reasons up to 24 weeks, but up to birth if “there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.”

Netherlands - Abortions after 24 weeks are permitted in certain circumstances, such as when the unborn child has an untreatable “disorder” or is deemed likely to suffer after its birth.

https://lozierinstitute.org/chief-ju...an-mainstream/

[mooby]

Originally Posted by nonniey

That is a bit of a stretch. Mississippi's exceptions for medical emergency or "severe fetal abnormality" is similar to European exceptions or in other words about as "broad and liberal." Of the examples below I prefer the French policy.

Germany - permits late-term abortions in cases of rape or if the physical or psychological health of the mother is considered at risk of serious harm.
(vice any medical reason, even temporary, for the US).

France - Abortions in the second and third trimesters are permitted only if two physicians certify that it is necessary to save the life of the mother, to prevent grave and permanent harm to her health, or the child has a severe and incurable illness.

UK - permits abortion for socio-economic reasons up to 24 weeks, but up to birth if “there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.”

Netherlands - Abortions after 24 weeks are permitted in certain circumstances, such as when the unborn child has an untreatable “disorder” or is deemed likely to suffer after its birth.

https://lozierinstitute.org/chief-ju...an-mainstream/

Question - how many clinics does it country offer? More than 1 each I assume?

Asking because not only does Mississippi want to criminalize abortion after 15? weeks - IIRC they only have like one clinic in the state which I assume is packed 24/7 because 1 clinic for an entire state is nowhere near enough to serve the population.

You keep arguing about specifics or individual line-items but you're ignoring the big picture. The big picture is to restrict or fully criminalize all abortion so that woman are completely deterred from doing it.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by mooby

Question - how many clinics does it country offer? More than 1 each I assume?

Asking because not only does Mississippi want to criminalize abortion after 15? weeks - IIRC they only have like one clinic in the state which I assume is packed 24/7 because 1 clinic for an entire state is nowhere near enough to serve the population.

You keep arguing about specifics or individual line-items but you're ignoring the big picture. The big picture is to restrict or fully criminalize all abortion so that woman are completely deterred from doing it.

Limited facilities is a different type of apple (both are apples). My main concern is what is actually legal. The legality of the late term abortions that verge on infanticide is repugnant. Several thousand viable and healthy fetus's are aborted in the United States every year because of the extreme policy position the US has on abortion - Mississippi's law addresses some of that. Heck even if the Supreme Court rules that states can regulate from conception there will still be other states that permit abortions of healthy viable fetus's up to the second they would have been due (ie Vermont).

The argument that it is relatively rare holds no water with me - it being legal to abort a fetus that if delivered can live on it's own is unconscionable.

[SunnySide]

A new law limiting the use of abortion-inducing medication in Texas goes into effect Thursday.

The law makes it a felony to provide the medication after seven weeks of pregnancy, putting Texas at odds with federal regulations. It also makes it a crime to send the medication through the mail.

Medical abortion is the most common way women in Texas terminate their pregnancies, according to state data.

These new restrictions reflect a growing concern among abortion opponents about the rise of “self-managed” abortions, in which pregnant people obtain the medications from out-of-state or international providers, with or without a prescription.

There’s evidence that more women turn to self-managed abortions when legal abortion is restricted. Texans have been unable to access abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy since Sept. 1, when a controversial new ban went into effect.

“Texas is looking at the ways that people are navigating around restrictions and trying to essentially make that as unsafe and as frightening for people as possible in order to deter them,” said Farah Diaz-Tello, senior legal counsel for If/When/How, a reproductive justice legal group.

Diaz-Tello and other advocates worry that the new criminal penalties may make pregnant Texans fearful of seeking medical care after a self-managed abortion.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12...ical-abortion/

No more Plan B in Texas ... im sure this is about (checks notes) science and not certain religious beliefs being used to drive laws

If only we had an apolitical SC that was designed to check laws being driven by religion