Giants postgame

[EdmundDorf]

How does JDR run a a scheme that requires Landon Collins, a classic box safety, have deep coverage responsibilty?

[Defensewins]

It is still early and I trust THIS coaching staff to fix/coach the shit out it.
After giving it some thought two things stand out:
1) Rookies and new players in key positions. They need time to adjust. However I know this staff will bench but not give up anyone that takes too long to develop. That is good.
2) #26. I do not like him. Expensive and one dimensional. If his cap cut number wasn’t so high he would be gone. Why would we want a safety that is not very good in coverage? We need to develop his replacement now or move Curl to SS and bring in another FS. #26 will be gone next year unless he take a big pay cut. He is a liability.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

It is still early and I trust THIS coaching staff to fix/coach the shit out it.
After giving it some thought two things stand out:
1) Rookies and new players in key positions. They need time to adjust. However I know this staff will bench but not give up anyone that takes too long to develop. That is good.
2) #26. I do not like him. Expensive and one dimensional. If his cap cut number wasn’t so high he would be gone. Why would we want a safety that is not very good in coverage? We need to develop his replacement now or move Curl to SS and bring in another FS. #26 will be gone next year unless he take a big pay cut. He is a liability.

Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here

[skinsfan69]

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1291447]Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here[/QUOTE]

He isn't a fit anywhere if you ask me....lol.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here

It is frustrating. Especially after hearing about how the coaching staff wanted to use him in the hybrid format in the offseason. I liked the idea of him replacing a linebacker in pass coverage. We have yet to see it manifest.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

It is frustrating. Especially after hearing about how the coaching staff wanted to use him in the hybrid format in the offseason. I liked the idea of him replacing a linebacker in pass coverage. We have yet to see it manifest.

The obvious question to me no one is asking…is he the guy causing the problems in the secondary right now?

Seems like the secondary wasn’t having these problems last year

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

The obvious question to me no one is asking…is he the guy causing the problems in the secondary right now?

Seems like the secondary wasn’t having these problems last year

Well there are two new CBs in the there this year, one of whom is a rookie and the other being asked to modify the way he plays. But I think it is also not a coincidence that things tightened up last year after he got injured, when Kurl became the full time SS.

Bostic is the obvious sore thumb here, question is how many other guys are not paying full attention to their responsibility to keep pan eye on Bostic. If you look at the blown play the TE blew past Bostic and Collins came down to cover him. It has been a point of emphasis from the coaches about taking care of your job and not always trying to be the guy who makes the play. I think too many guys may be pressing too hard to make plays, Chase Young in particular, and the whole scheme falls apart when that happens

[skinsfan69]

I just don't understand why they keep putting Collins out there. Enough is enough. Start Curl in his place. He's a vet and makes free agent rookie mistakes. It is just inexcusable. That play where he went for the fullback and then got outran by Jones was it for me. No more. He sucked before he got hurt and nothing has changed. The guy isn't an NFL safety and is a liability.

[calia]

What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


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[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by calia

What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


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Our weakness in defending running QB's and those pass plays is the LB's (S's helping LB's instead of covering their own responsibility). I'm hoping Davis steps up sooner than later, but he's shown hints of capability (he had one lovely play in coverage vs the Giants). But Bostic is a liability until he does. I agree, KJ Wright may have made a difference to this LB corps, and I'd like to know why we didn't at least try to get him.

[AnonEmouse]

On either side of the ball, the way to coach is to bring in players that fit/improve your scheme, or build a scheme that caters to the strengths of your players. Seems this coaching staff has been trying the former as I haven't seen a great deal of adapting schemes over the last 2 years. It seems more like they are trying to build sustainable schemes and picking the players accordingly. But then they have gone after or retained the odd player that doesn't seem, to fit the scheme, like Collins. I'm not sure WJ3 is one of those guys yet, or if its teething troubles with new starters on D not yet gelling. But it needs fixing quickly.

Strangely enough, it seems like after 2 games its the D that needs more fixing than the O (thought that still needs work).

[Chico23231]

When it comes to our defense, it does have the ability to get better, but we need to move some pieces around.

Going into the off-season, most here correctly observed we needed a rangy free safety and more talent at LB.

We have the cap space. I don’t the new front office did a good job, hopefully they will prove me wrong by years end.

[Chief X_Phackter]

I think the secondary is probably still figuring out how to play together. There's four dudes taking significant snaps who weren't here either all of last year, or most of last year - Collins, WJ3, St-Juste, and McCain. I gotta believe things will improve as they log more time together.

[SunnySide]

Didnt want to post my negative thoughts the day after a victory but ..
man we got lucky af.

Heinike's best throw I thought was that big play wheel route to McKissic. Perfectly placed ball. He didnt have to make a read on that play as it was his one and only option.

But I do think Turner is limiting the play book for him, catering to the throws he can make and making his reads simple. For this offense to work, Turner needs to call plays where Heinike can watch and see if his receiver wins before he has to throw the ball. Crosses, digs, screens, there are some outs and those scare me as Heinike's arm is a little soft. A corner sitting on an out can read, react and step in front of it .. jump it.

Hes not being asked to throw before a receiver makes his break, putting the ball on time and to a space.

This is the same "training wheels" QB play calling weve seen for the past few years as we play the QB shuffle.

I really wanted to see Turner be able to use his entire playbook so we can judge him accurately.

Still plenty of season left .. but this playcalling walks on a razor thin line. if the first read isnt open? Heinike has to tuck and run. Teams should start to key in on our predictable play calling.

Last year teams only had to defend the first 20 yards from the LOS. This year ... looks like we are going to fall into the same pattern. Recipe for .500 ball at best imo.

Still plenty of time .. I hope Heinike can start throwing the entire route tree and more complicated passing concepts ... but I imagine hes an IR waiting to happen.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Didnt want to post my negative thoughts the day after a victory but ..
man we got lucky af.

Heinike's best throw I thought was that big play wheel route to McKissic. Perfectly placed ball. He didnt have to make a read on that play as it was his one and only option.

But I do think Turner is limiting the play book for him, catering to the throws he can make and making his reads simple. For this offense to work, Turner needs to call plays where Heinike can watch and see if his receiver wins before he has to throw the ball. Crosses, digs, screens, there are some outs and those scare me as Heinike's arm is a little soft. A corner sitting on an out can read, react and step in front of it .. jump it.

Hes not being asked to throw before a receiver makes his break, putting the ball on time and to a space.

This is the same "training wheels" QB play calling weve seen for the past few years as we play the QB shuffle.

I really wanted to see Turner be able to use his entire playbook so we can judge him accurately.

Still plenty of season left .. but this playcalling walks on a razor thin line. if the first read isnt open? Heinike has to tuck and run. Teams should start to key in on our predictable play calling.

Last year teams only had to defend the first 20 yards from the LOS. This year ... looks like we are going to fall into the same pattern. Recipe for .500 ball at best imo.

Still plenty of time .. I hope Heinike can start throwing the entire route tree and more complicated passing concepts ... but I imagine hes an IR waiting to happen.

I was reading Kiem's review of the game on Friday. He was commenting on the number of passes TH makes short of the sticks. I am basically reading it as get the ball quickly to F1, Gibson. Thomas and have them make the plays to extend the drive. It does sound like training wheels to me. Obviously with more reps we should be able to see the playbook open.

I also read in the Kiem article the TD run by McKissic was a check out by TH. It was supposed to be a pass. That is a good sign in his reading the D.