Ukraine mega thread

[NC_Skins]

Reports: 100,000 'yes' ballots for referendum intercepted in Sloviansk


Putin trying to rig the votes. Probably about time we either put some serious damaging sanctions against Russia or we send some military over there and dare Putin to strike.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Reports: 100,000 'yes' ballots for referendum intercepted in Sloviansk


Putin trying to rig the votes. Probably about time we either put some serious damaging sanctions against Russia or we send some military over there and dare Putin to strike.

As one commenter said: This is just proof that eastern Ukraine really does want to be part of Putin's Russia. They've already adopted the Russian voting system!

[CRedskinsRule]

I guess the Kiev govt has just accepted that the East is lost. Doesn't seem like they have made much of an attempt to take back or stop the pro Russian movement.

From Breaking News:
Acting Ukrainian President Turchynov says most police in east Ukraine incapable of fulfilling duties, demands dismissal of Luhansk, Donetsk commanders - @Reuters

So it makes me wonder if it really is a case where the Western powers ought to accept that Ukraine should be divided. Hard to defend the Kiev government when a lot of the frontline troops in the East won't.

[NC_Skins]

BBC News - 'Many dead' in Ukraine offensive in Sloviansk - Turchynov


Ukraine going on the offensive in some areas against the pro-Russian rebels. No doubt Russia is behind this crap.

[CRedskinsRule]

More than 40 killed in fire, clashes in Ukraine's Odessa | Reuters

it's looking to get rougher, of course this was between rival soccer fans so you know it will get out of control.

[HailGreen28]

[Chico23231]

Swearing off bad language: Russia bans cussing in films, books, music - CNN.com

Wasnt gonna start a new thread, but to me this is crazy.

[CRedskinsRule]

Transcript of press conference with Putin. If he meant what he says, it ought to be easy to get things backed off the edge. Unfortunately, and I tend to think both the West and Russia are guilty in this aspect, once you encourage the extreme, you can't always rein it back in.

President of Russia

I always remember the saying "revolutions consume their own", and I kinda think that's what we are seeing in Ukraine now.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Transcript of press conference with Putin. If he meant what he says, it ought to be easy to get things backed off the edge. Unfortunately, and I tend to think both the West and Russia are guilty in this aspect, once you encourage the extreme, you can't always rein it back in.

President of Russia

I always remember the saying "revolutions consume their own", and I kinda think that's what we are seeing in Ukraine now.

Putin blamed everything on the Ukrainian government, while absolving Russia of all responsibility. And calls the current government illegitimate, while saying the planned elections shouldn't take place just yet.

Russia already made one naked land grab on Crimea. The same pattern, and denials, are being made on eastern Ukraine now.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Putin blamed everything on the Ukrainian government, while absolving Russia of all responsibility. And calls the current government illegitimate, while saying the planned elections shouldn't take place just yet.

Russia already made one naked land grab on Crimea. The same pattern, and denials, are being made on eastern Ukraine now.

I agree with your first and last sentences, but the middle one is wrong on 3 counts:

1) technically the current government is fairly illegitimate, meaning no votes have been held and they came to power not through an election but through popular revolt.

2) he tells the eastern federalists to hold off on their planned referendum (something the West asked him to do)

In this context, we appeal too, to representatives of southeast Ukraine and supporters of federalisation to hold off the referendum scheduled for May 11, in order to give this dialogue the conditions it needs to have a chance.

3) he states Russia agrees the scheduled vote on the 25th needs to take place.

We must do everything possible to ensure that people in southeast Ukraine understand, feel and believe that after the Ukrainian presidential election on May 24 or 25 their lawful rights will be reliably guaranteed.

The question is the old Reagan adage of trust but verify. He also said that the Russian troops have pulled back, our government says they haven't. Really need an independent party (not that there is one in this case) to show satellite imagery showing whether the tanks and troops have pulled back. Even then it wouldn't take long to be on the road again.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I agree with your first and last sentences, but the middle one is wrong on 3 counts:

1) technically the current government is fairly illegitimate, meaning no votes have been held and they came to power not through an election but through popular revolt.

2) he tells the eastern federalists to hold off on their planned referendum (something the West asked him to do)


3) he states Russia agrees the scheduled vote on the 25th needs to take place.


The question is the old Reagan adage of trust but verify. He also said that the Russian troops have pulled back, our government says they haven't. Really need an independent party (not that there is one in this case) to show satellite imagery showing whether the tanks and troops have pulled back. Even then it wouldn't take long to be on the road again.

Thanks for explaining to me what Putin was saying about the election.

I really think Putin is going to try to take Odessa and other productive regions of Ukraine, the same way he sliced off parts of Georgia and Crimea. I think Ukraine has to worry more about Russians inside it's territory leading groups shooting down helicopters and separatist "federalization" mob attacks, than the Russian troops on the border.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Thanks for explaining to me what Putin was saying about the election.

I really think Putin is going to try to take Odessa and other productive regions of Ukraine, the same way he sliced off parts of Georgia and Crimea. I think Ukraine has to worry more about Russians inside it's territory leading groups shooting down helicopters and separatist "federalization" mob attacks, than the Russian troops on the border.

Well, I think you had described it earlier, but they are using pretty much the Crimea strategy. Now that they held the referendums, they are asking to join Russia, and Russia said they were going to seek recognition of the states from the UN (like that is going to happen) and then I imagine they will annex and send in troops. Have to wonder how the Kiev group will respond to that.

[That Guy]

if we put troops on the ground and he attacks then what? land war with russia? nukes? americans dying in a ukranian civil war where both sides hate us for being there?

what's the next step after "sending troops" ?

[HailGreen28]

How about getting the UN (or EU and us) to send in troops?

[RedskinRat]

Academi (formerly Blackwater) now on the streets of Odessa.

That ain't good. I'll post a source later.