When is Enough ,Enough?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Given Trump’s history on travel bans I think it was reasonable to question his intent


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His previous travel bans were found to be lawful and why would he purposely hurt the economy with a travel while trying to negotiate a bigger trade deal with China? Pelosi, Biden and the media were dishonest and wrong in calling the travel ban racist. It’s a political tactic...intellectually dishonest. Trump didn’t want the ban and was advise to do it.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

His previous travel bans were found to be lawful and why would he purposely hurt the economy with a travel while trying to negotiate a bigger trade deal with China? Pelosi, Biden and the media were dishonest and wrong in calling the travel ban racist. It’s a political tactic...intellectually dishonest. Trump didn’t want the ban and was advise to do it.

If we’re talking about the decision to limit China travel, Trump has repeatedly said it was his decision and no one wanted him to do it. Turns out it was the right call, he gets credit from me for it (though I think he did it to irk China and not actually care about covid).

If your talking about the prior travel bans he instituted early in his presidency re immigration .... well please ignore all this.

——————

WASHINGTON (AP) — Defending early missteps in the U.S. response to the coronavirus, President Donald Trump has repeatedly boasted of travel restrictions on China that he suggests he decided on his own over the objections of health experts and saved “thousands” of lives.

His claims aren’t substantiated.

TRUMP: “We’re the ones that gave the great response, and we’re the ones that kept China out of here. ... If I didn’t do that early call on China — and nobody wanted that to happen. Everybody thought it was just unnecessary to do it.” — news briefing Wednesday.

TRUMP: “Everybody was against it. Almost everybody, I would say, was just absolutely against it. ... I made a decision to close off to China that was weeks early. ... And I must say, doctors — nobody wanted to make that decision at the time.” — Fox News virtual town hall Tuesday.

TRUMP: “I’ll tell you how prepared I was, I called for a ban.” — news briefing on March 19.

THE FACTS: His decision was far from solo nor was it made over opposition from health experts, as the White House coronavirus task force makes clear. His decision followed a consensus by his public health advisers that the restrictions should take place.

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who was coordinator of the task force at the time and announced the travel restrictions, said Trump made the decision in late January after accepting the “uniform recommendation of the career public health officials here at HHS.”

While the World Health Organization did advise against the overuse of travel restrictions, Azar told reporters in February that his department’s career health officials had made a “considered recommendation, which I and the president adopted” in a bid to slow spread of the virus.

Most major airlines had already suspended flights to China prior to the announcement on Jan. 31, following the lead of several major international carriers that had stopped due to the coronavirus outbreak. Delta, American and United cited a sharp drop in demand for the flights, and an earlier State Department advisory told Americans not to travel to China because of the outbreak.

https://apnews.com/0dc271ad7f7917374a5a0cfb49273783

[MTK]

I think it’s safe to say most had it wrong with the coronavirus early on, so what are we arguing about here?


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[SunnySide]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sunriseon...87976986427393

Gesus ... Video of dc police clearing out the crowd for trumps walk to a church. do not recognize this version of America. On all sides.

[MTK]

WTF




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[Chico23231]

Looks like there isn’t a protest anymore, just looting and violence in nyc, los Angelos. These fuckin idiots don’t give a flying fuck about George Floyd. Back to being criminals

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Looks like there isn’t a protest anymore, just looting and violence in nyc, los Angelos. These fuckin idiots don’t give a flying fuck about George Floyd. Back to being criminals

chico,just stop man.


FUCK trump!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...062228439.html

D.C. bishop 'outraged' Trump used tear gas on citizens for photo op at church

The bishop for the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, Mariann Budde, called into Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night and railed against President Trump for staging a visit to St. John’s Church near the White House. As Trump prepared to speak in the Rose Garden, police in riot gear began violently removing protesters, who were standing with their arms raised, and using tear gas, to disperse the crowd so that Trump could safely make it to the church where he posed with a Bible for a photo op.

“The president just used a Bible, the most sacred text of the Judeo-Christian religion, and one of the churches of my diocese without permission, as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that our churches stand for,” Budde said. “And to do so… he sanctioned the use of tear gas by police officers in riot gear to clear the church yard. I am outraged.”

[Chico23231]

CNN last week, "How are we going to stop these sunbathers on California beaches?!!!" CNN this week, "Masses in the streets walking arm in arm. Good for them."

Adam Carrolla

[BaltimoreSkins]

First off nobody should be listening to Adam Carrolla as the voice of logic. Second there is a big difference between people ignoring social distancing to just go to the beach and those that are doing it to try to drive change to a lethally flawed system. Both do make me nervous for potential spikes in cases and deaths.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

First off nobody should be listening to Adam Carrolla as the voice of logic. Second there is a big difference between people ignoring social distancing to just go to the beach and those that are doing it to try to drive change to a lethally flawed system. Both do make me nervous for potential spikes in cases and deaths.

Protesters several weeks ago, it was the same whining complaints. Now we see the obvious reversal of the narrative. You and the media can’t both ways.

Lethally flawed, absolutely not. This is a terrible murder by a dirty cop no question...It’s simply not the norm. Crime data doesn’t support it. This is exactly what the media does, they will take this and weave it into a narrative which is not based in fact...it’s emotional, tragic situation where we can get better, but it’s not the norm.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Protesters several weeks ago, it was the same whining complaints. Now we see the obvious reversal of the narrative. You and the media can’t both ways.

Lethally flawed, absolutely not. This is a terrible murder by a dirty cop no question...It’s simply not the norm. Crime data doesn’t support it. This is exactly what the media does, they will take this and weave it into a narrative which is not based in fact...it’s emotional, tragic situation where we can get better, but it’s not the norm.

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

Thanks I’ll look through it. A couple things off the bat strike me as kinda off, especially if you are gonna dive into mental health and emotional issues...at the same time blame police And the justice system because they are not equipped. Look at root cause of why there is these issues. It’s like taking kids to school and acting like they are the baby sitter...the expectation they should need to deal with it is incorrect. Plus simply saying black people have more of these issues...not sure on that.

Recidivism rates is always a hot topic because that’s the key to curbing...but I’ll look at what you sent.

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I agree about training always...but with the policing culture there needs to be active conversations about identifying bad police. Whistle blower protection through chain of command, review of all injuries suspects receive in police contact, etc

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I suppose I will disagree to an extent on the bad parents. My nephew is a sociopath for which there is no cure, he was given all kinds of drugs and all forms of parenting tried. At the age of 12 he went from an A student to the world's biggest loser. By the time he was 16 he had been in and out of juvenile hall 9 times. All kinds of parenting techniques were tried. His parents divorced when he was 10. Between the ages of 16 and 18 he lived with mom, dad, grandma, and uncle Bob. Now at the age of 25, he lives in prison. After he left my place when he was 18 a few months later he was thrown in jail for attempted strangulation of his girlfriend, he only got 2-5 years but he obviously parlayed that into a longer sentence. He is up for parole this October with a release date of 2023. I hope he keeps screwing up in prison the world is not safe with him breathing free air. He will eventually kill someone. Nothing is ever his fault and he actually bragged about the crimes he committed as a juvenile. He left here on very bad terms I only find updates on him from Goggling.

I have also seen quite a few loser kids come from good parents whose other siblings turned out just fine.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Thanks I’ll look through it. A couple things off the bat strike me as kinda off, especially if you are gonna dive into mental health and emotional issues...at the same time blame police And the justice system because they are not equipped. Look at root cause of why there is these issues. It’s like taking kids to school and acting like they are the baby sitter...the expectation they should need to deal with it is incorrect. Plus simply saying black people have more of these issues...not sure on that.

Recidivism rates is always a hot topic because that’s the key to curbing...but I’ll look at what you sent.

As someone who worked in juvenile justice, I did see emotional issues and resources were abundant to address these on many levels, a lot of time people don’t use them when there were free. You know what the driver is for juvenile crime and justice? Bad fucking parents period. I worked in a mostly white rural county and I worked in a major diverse city. Fact check: true. Substance abuse and mental issue distance second and third.

I agree about training always...but with the policing culture there needs to be active conversations about identifying bad police. Whistle blower protection through chain of command, review of all injuries suspects receive in police contact, etc

Bad parenting is a major issue. I work in a high school so I know what you mean. The amount of resources we are spending on social and emotional development increases every year. Ideally I would like to see those resources channeled towards the elementary schools where we can address behavior and societal norms at an early age (a social worker and behavior interventionist at every elementary school) and thus decrease lost time in the classroom due to management issues at the high school level. Ideally parents would be the driving force.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Worrying about dollars and worrying about peoples lives are not the same. You see a reversal of narrative I see a sticking to the narrative; public health and life are more important.

In terms of data I'm sorry it is just not true here is some peer reviewed papers for you to help you better understand what is going on:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/lasr.12366

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...PH.2018.304559

There is a significant gap in training in police forces. Especially when it comes to mental health and social emotional disabilities both of which impact African Americans at a higher rate. Going further African Americans males receive longer sentences than white males for the same crime (https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing) This leads to likely increases in recidivism leading to increased police interactions.

For the record I am not anti-police as with any profession that vast majority are honest and hardworking people. That does not mean that they handle situations appropriately. We have as a society decided not to fund and properly train our police compared to other developed countries.

I forget what link...but the information about black vs white sentencing is fairly legit from other sources I checked. I’d like to see more information on that to combat it...I would suspect it’s certain areas of the country. I’d like to see data and believe there is opportunity for reforms.

I also did a little digging about the school arrests and transitioning towards prison...there is opportunity there I believe mental health reform early in schools should be a norm as a school nurse. It’s shocking to see arrest figures so high in schools...but equally shocking is the violence against teachers which has steady risen over 15 years..:where gun violence in school has declined.