Pointing at the other bench (The Jets/Pats Saga)

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Has the window closed on Brady?

Not even close. He's still in the prime of his career, the Pats have a young defense that will get better, two young stud te's, a solid o-line and not to mention a lot of draft picks. The Pats aren't going anywhere.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yep, the Jets wanted it more and were better prepared. Hats off to them.

I think the Pats may have been a bit too cocky coming in.

I don't think you'll ever see a Bill Belicheck team being cocky. They just simply got beat. They got outcoached and outplayed. They had a bad day at the worst time.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't think you'll ever see a Bill Belicheck team being cocky. They just simply got beat. They got outcoached and outplayed. They had a bad day at the worst time.

I think Welkers' comments showed they got a little out of character

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So you think he'll win another Super Bowl before he's done? Because that's really my question

Interesting Smoot. I think the rest of the league is catching up and some obviously have passed NE as the the undisputed champs. So the window may indeed be closed (time running out) for Brady as far as winning another SB with the Pats.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Has the window closed on Brady?

Definitely on the downside of his career.

For years, Brady had such a great O-line, he could finish every game as clean as he started it. Now he's getting abused and it it taking its toll. Last game, he just started collapsing like a rag doll instead of taking hits. He's not that tough of a QB compared to others like Roethlisberger, Rodgers, even McNabb who took a beating and kept playing (wasn't bench for injury). Pretty Boy Brady isn't used to being hit. Belichick is trying to protect him with a short passing game using the slot WRs and RBs a lot, but he's playing behind a poor line and being exposed as possibly a product of a good system and full-time protection. Yes, he's one of the better QBs in the NFL today, but maybe he had a lot of help with his successes.

In fact, I think one of the main reasons the team let Randy Moss go so easily was because Brady just doesn't have the time and protection to let those 50-yard routes develop anymore. They needed to adapt the offense to a shorter, faster-paced game to keep Tom off his back and Randy Moss just wasn't a usable piece anymore. Proof of that is how there was zero drop-off when they let their top offensive weapon (of the past) go. He wasn't an integral part of the offense anymore.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

More drama:

New England Patriots' Deion Branch rips 'classless' New York Jets - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

OH really, New England?
Pats' celebration draws ire of Tomlinson, Chargers - NFL - ESPN



LT got his payback.

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't think you'll ever see a Bill Belicheck team being cocky. They just simply got beat. They got outcoached and outplayed. They had a bad day at the worst time.

They're one of the cockiest teams in sports. It's not always a vulgar-style of cockiness like the Jets or Steelers, but more of an elitist "we're just better than you" attitude, ESPECIALLY from Brady. That's why it is so satisfying when they lose.

If they were REALLY so great...why has it been 6 years since they've won a Super Bowl?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yep, the Jets wanted it more and were better prepared. Hats off to them.

I think the Pats may have been a bit too cocky coming in.

Yep. I think 45-3 went to their heads. What little chatter that came out of NE last week (Kraft, Welker) was premised on a "we are superior" perspective.

[hooskins]

Glad people have mentioned it already, but the Pats are just as cocky as the Jets if not worst. From the Jet's perspective it is mainly Rex that is cocky and the truth is it is big show. Jets know the Pats are a great team and it is just Rex living it up in the spotlight. The Patriot's elitist mentality is rampant throughout the organization. I am sure none of the Pats thought it was remotely possible to lose the game.

[NC_Skins]

Anybody that thinks the Pats window is closing or if Tom Brady is on the decline is absolutely insane. Let's look more closely as to why the Patriots haven't done as good the past 3 years.




Defense. That is what wins you championships (special teams included). The 2001 was a stat anomaly to say the least. However, if you look at the Post season stats for the 2001 year, you'd see they were 2nd in points allowed for defense during that post season. It was a team that started clicking at the right time. The main staple of the BB teams has been it's relentless defense, with Tom Brady being the clutch guy that drove them down in the last minute to win the game or put them in a position to win. (ie..Field Goal)

To be quite honest, the 2005 and 2001 years they were fortunate to have been playing in a very craptastic division. Up until 3 years ago, the AFC East was a laughing stock, like our NFC West currently is.

Say what you want, but most of us Redskins fans would give our left nut to have records like they have over the past decade. (3 Super Bowls) Bad news is, they are going to get better. With 2 picks in each of the first three rounds in this years draft, the rich keep on getting richer.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Anybody that thinks the Pats window is closing or if Tom Brady is on the decline is absolutely insane. Let's look more closely as to why the Patriots haven't done as good the past 3 years.




Defense. That is what wins you championships (special teams included). The 2001 was a stat anomaly to say the least. However, if you look at the Post season stats for the 2001 year, you'd see they were 2nd in points allowed for defense during that post season. It was a team that started clicking at the right time. The main staple of the BB teams has been it's relentless defense, with Tom Brady being the clutch guy that drove them down in the last minute to win the game or put them in a position to win. (ie..Field Goal)

To be quite honest, the 2005 and 2001 years they were fortunate to have been playing in a very craptastic division. Up until 3 years ago, the AFC East was a laughing stock, like our NFC West currently is.

Say what you want, but most of us Redskins fans would give our left nut to have records like they have over the past decade. (3 Super Bowls) Bad news is, they are going to get better. With 2 picks in each of the first three rounds in this years draft, the rich keep on getting richer.

Huh? What?
in the playoffs a great defense and running game will take places, of course combined with adequate passing game. But as Jets Qb proved, it does not have to be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady great. Just adequate.
Which why we need to draft more O-lineman and defense. Draft a top Qb only if a great one falls in our lap. Unlikely.

[Monkeydad]

Dude gets around. His feet must hurt.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Huh? What?
in the playoffs a great defense and running game will take places, of course combined with adequate passing game. But as Jets Qb proved, it does not have to be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady great. Just adequate.
Which why we need to draft more O-lineman and defense. Draft a top Qb only if a great one falls in our lap. Unlikely.

What was confusing about what I posted in regards to why the Patriots have fell off the past few years. (responding to other people's coments)


Also, you are 100% wrong in your assessment that you draft a top QB only if a great one falls in your lap. You are also wrong about defenses and "running game" will take places. I'm sorry, but it's the exact opposite. A defense and a great QB will take you places. This isn't the 80's-90's anymore where the league was centered around a strong running game and a stout defense. This is a QB driven league. Look no further than the list of Super Bowl MVPs over the past decade to see that you need either a dominate defense or a passing game to win.

Super Bowl 34 2000 QB - Kurt Warner Rams
Super Bowl 35 2001 LB - Ray Lewis Ravens
Super Bowl 36 2002 QB - Tom Brady Patriots
Super Bowl 37 2003 S - Dexter Jackson Buccaneers
Super Bowl 38 2004 QB - Tom Brady Patriots
Super Bowl 39 2005 WR - Deion Branch Patriots (Tom Brady QB)
Super Bowl 40 2006 WR - Hines Ward Steelers (ben roethlisberger QB)
Super Bowl 41 2007 QB - Peyton Manning Colts
Super Bowl 42 2008 QB - Eli Manning Giants
Super Bowl 43 2009 WR - Santonio Holmes Steelers (roethlisberger QB)
Super Bowl 44 2010 QB - Drew Brees Saints


How many RBs you see on that list? Not a single one. Yet you see multiple WRs and QBs on that list. The only 2 that are up there not a QB or WR are two positions that were on two of the most dominate defenses this past decade. (Tampa Bay/Baltimore)

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

What was confusing about what I posted in regards to why the Patriots have fell off the past few years. (responding to other people's coments)


Also, you are 100% wrong in your assessment that you draft a top QB only if a great one falls in your lap. You are also wrong about defenses and "running game" will take places. I'm sorry, but it's the exact opposite. A defense and a great QB will take you places. This isn't the 80's-90's anymore where the league was centered around a strong running game and a stout defense. This is a QB driven league. Look no further than the list of Super Bowl MVPs over the past decade to see that you need either a dominate defense or a passing game to win.

Super Bowl 34 2000 QB - Kurt Warner Rams
Super Bowl 35 2001 LB - Ray Lewis Ravens
Super Bowl 36 2002 QB - Tom Brady Patriots
Super Bowl 37 2003 S - Dexter Jackson Buccaneers
Super Bowl 38 2004 QB - Tom Brady Patriots
Super Bowl 39 2005 WR - Deion Branch Patriots (Tom Brady QB)
Super Bowl 40 2006 WR - Hines Ward Steelers (ben roethlisberger QB)
Super Bowl 41 2007 QB - Peyton Manning Colts
Super Bowl 42 2008 QB - Eli Manning Giants
Super Bowl 43 2009 WR - Santonio Holmes Steelers (roethlisberger QB)
Super Bowl 44 2010 QB - Drew Brees Saints


How many RBs you see on that list? Not a single one. Yet you see multiple WRs and QBs on that list. The only 2 that are up there not a QB or WR are two positions that were on two of the most dominate defenses this past decade. (Tampa Bay/Baltimore)

Super Bowl MVP amounts to a hill of beans IMO, league MVP yes is worth of some note. SB MVP I mean it is one game, anybody can have one great game, see Timmy Smith.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Super Bowl MVP amounts to a hill of beans IMO, league MVP yes is worth of some note. SB MVP I mean it is one game, anybody can have one great game, see Timmy Smith.

I think you missed the point entirely. The point was it was Defense and Passing game that won those big games, not the running game.

Even with a stout defense and a super star QB, it's a one game elimination in the end and you very well could lose. (see the 2007 patriots for prime example) It takes a lot of skill and luck to win a super bowl, but you can stack the odds in your favor by having those crucial components on your team. (QB/Def)

[44ever]

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;778648]Anybody that thinks the Pats window is closing or if Tom Brady is on the decline is absolutely insane. Let's look more closely as to why the Patriots haven't done as good the past 3 years.

I don't recall anyone saying the Pats window is closing or that Brady is on the decline. Altho his weakness has definitely been exposed. What is happening is that the Pats are not the only elite team in the NFL anymore. In fact according to your graph, they have been on a steady decline in Ranking since 2006


With so many elite teams competing at a level higher than NE, and taking Brady's age in account, odds are he may have seen his last SB.

Just as the front 4 of the Giants exposed Vick, The Jets have exposed Brady. Sure they are still a great team but, the same old thing just wont do anymore in todays NFL. And just for the record, I agree with mredskins, SB MVP doesn't really amount to much.