Can you change?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Good post 12th.

I'm like you, except on the other side of things (I'll always remember that thread with the chart that plotted where each person was on the political spectrum), that was a good thread.

I grew up just outside DC in the People's Republic of Montgomery County (Kensington), although it was probably at least 10 years earlier than when you grew up. My folks were registered Ds, but voted R from Reagan on. I'd say they were Kennedy Ds. I remember reading the Washington Post, but mostly checking the baseball box scores, reading Skins stuff, and checking the Weekend section for the movie times, not realizing the Washington Post was left of Pravda. I was worried about Reagan "putting us into a nuclear war" before he got elected in 1980, but was in his corner as I got into HS. When I went into the USAF I was sent to Japan and exposed to the real world, my views were solidly formed and have stayed consistent since, but more fiscally conservative as I get older.

Could I vote for a Democrat, certainly. But you can't find a fiscal conservative, limited gov't Dem to save your soul. And I agree, I haven't been inspired by the Rs in quite sometime. To me they're just the lesser of two evils. Problem is both parties are controlled at the top by special interests and solid, middle of the road, common sense candidates can't get out of primaries because the big party money stomps them almost every time. We just had a primary here in VB and the big party guy won even though he wasn't the best choice. He'll be another don't tax but keep spending RINO. He'll say the scripted things, but will be a tool for the RNC, just like Thelma Drake was.

I would trade in Obama for either Clinton, especially Bill, in a heartbeat. I was no fan of his, but he did know how to track to the center when necessary. That being said, while Clinton technically passed a surplus to Bush 2, he also passed on a recession. His housing policies were also a contributor to the current recession (but to his credit, he saw the pending problems and sounded the warning bells on this, the current crop of Ds didn't heed the warnings).

While Bush was certainly no fiscal conservative, the Bush tax cuts did limit the impact of the 2001 recession and minimized the impact of Sept. 11th on the economy. Most of Bush's spending increases were related to Sept. 11th (DHS, etc.) and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with bi-partisan Congressional support.

I don't think changing is really the issue, the folks here that meaningfully contribute to the political discussions have different views but normally are in agreement or could come to a satisfactory agreement on 80% of the issues. The vast majority of the country is influenced heavily by soundbites and talking heads without doing any research or investigation into the issues. You could find out what the 3rd WR on the Texans did in the Week 5 fantasy league or what American Idol/Bachelor/DWTS gossip is going on before most folks could name the VP or their own congressman/ senators.

[mredskins]

I am a Dem for the most part but I be stupid not to vote for this guy.

Bob Ehrlich Splash

The Dem party in MD is just plain awful.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

What needs to happen, broken down by member:

Saden = US declares bankruptcy
TTE = needy elderly
JTF = big business owner

Obviously this is a joke, but it leads to the real answer: everyone has a different perspective and none of them are wrong.

The big business owner feels like they worked hard enough to get where they are, and they deserve what they earn and shouldn't have to share it with anyone.

The needy elderly cannot survive on their own, and they feel like their lifetime of hard work entitles them to support from the government.

The poverty-stricken child who found their way out of the ghetto and received a college degree doesn't want others to face the same obstacles, and petitions the government for minority support for higher education.

None of these people/perspectives is wrong. I once read a quote that said the real truth is the sum of all perspectives. I think it applies well to politics.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think it was Bertrand Russell who said, "the whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt."

I love that quote.

[Trample the Elderly]

I have changed. When I was fourteen I thought we should have national health care. Then I got a job and found out that none of this stuff was free. Just because you get a middle man to steal for you (the government), doesn't mean you're not a effing thief. I don't care if you're a poor old person or some starving child, eat cat food and die. There's no magic money tree at the Federal Reserve.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

What needs to happen, broken down by member:

Saden = US declares bankruptcy
TTE = needy elderly
JTF = big business owner

Obviously this is a joke, but it leads to the real answer: everyone has a different perspective and none of them are wrong.

The big business owner feels like they worked hard enough to get where they are, and they deserve what they earn and shouldn't have to share it with anyone.

The needy elderly cannot survive on their own, and they feel like their lifetime of hard work entitles them to support from the government.

The poverty-stricken child who found their way out of the ghetto and received a college degree doesn't want others to face the same obstacles, and petitions the government for minority support for higher education.

None of these people/perspectives is wrong. I once read a quote that said the real truth is the sum of all perspectives. I think it applies well to politics.

I like that.

[Trample the Elderly]

The middle of the road is where all the road kill is at.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Good post 12th.

I'm like you, except on the other side of things (I'll always remember that thread with the chart that plotted where each person was on the political spectrum), that was a good thread.

I grew up just outside DC in the People's Republic of Montgomery County (Kensington), although it was probably at least 10 years earlier than when you grew up. My folks were registered Ds, but voted R from Reagan on. I'd say they were Kennedy Ds. I remember reading the Washington Post, but mostly checking the baseball box scores, reading Skins stuff, and checking the Weekend section for the movie times, not realizing the Washington Post was left of Pravda. I was worried about Reagan "putting us into a nuclear war" before he got elected in 1980, but was in his corner as I got into HS. When I went into the USAF I was sent to Japan and exposed to the real world, my views were solidly formed and have stayed consistent since, but more fiscally conservative as I get older.

Could I vote for a Democrat, certainly. But you can't find a fiscal conservative, limited gov't Dem to save your soul. And I agree, I haven't been inspired by the Rs in quite sometime. To me they're just the lesser of two evils. Problem is both parties are controlled at the top by special interests and solid, middle of the road, common sense candidates can't get out of primaries because the big party money stomps them almost every time. We just had a primary here in VB and the big party guy won even though he wasn't the best choice. He'll be another don't tax but keep spending RINO. He'll say the scripted things, but will be a tool for the RNC, just like Thelma Drake was.

I would trade in Obama for either Clinton, especially Bill, in a heartbeat. I was no fan of his, but he did know how to track to the center when necessary. That being said, while Clinton technically passed a surplus to Bush 2, he also passed on a recession. His housing policies were also a contributor to the current recession (but to his credit, he saw the pending problems and sounded the warning bells on this, the current crop of Ds didn't heed the warnings).

While Bush was certainly no fiscal conservative, the Bush tax cuts did limit the impact of the 2001 recession and minimized the impact of Sept. 11th on the economy. Most of Bush's spending increases were related to Sept. 11th (DHS, etc.) and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with bi-partisan Congressional support.

I don't think changing is really the issue, the folks here that meaningfully contribute to the political discussions have different views but normally are in agreement or could come to a satisfactory agreement on 80% of the issues. The vast majority of the country is influenced heavily by soundbites and talking heads without doing any research or investigation into the issues. You could find out what the 3rd WR on the Texans did in the Week 5 fantasy league or what American Idol/Bachelor/DWTS gossip is going on before most folks could name the VP or their own congressman/ senators.

And that's how exactly how Bush, Cheney, and Rove duped Congress into so much spending. They spun everything as a national security issue, turning it into a political issue not a policy issue, thereby questioning the patriotism of members based on their vote. Both wars were largely done by supplements and some fancy borrowing from the Chinese. And no one wants to talk about Medicare Part D, passed and unfunded by George W. Bush, adding to the mounting deficit.

I guess there's a debate to be had about Obama v. Clinton. But remember Clinton wanted a more costly and expansive healthcare bill than Obama just passed. In fact, it never saw a floor vote. And Clinton didn't inherit the worst recession in decades and two costly wars.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

And no one wants to talk about Medicare Part D, passed and unfunded by George W. Bush, adding to the mounting deficit.

I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.

Thought I never say this, but I'm voting for Slingin Sam. When you running, bro? I got some peeps in Mo.County that could get you going

[over the mountain]

I used to follow politics very closely. After a while I realized that most of the senators from either aisle are so far detached from the reality that they once represented. I guess I am a democrat but I like to think (or used to think) I am an issue person.

I voted for Obama last election. I didnt vote the election before, if I did it would have been for Raplh Nader just to help support the cause of having three major political parties. With our current 2 major political party situation, both parties gravitate to polar opposites in misguided attempts to define themselves.

I really liked John McCain as well in elections prior, but Palin is such a joke and obama seems like the real deal. With McCain I saw a man that wouldnt backdoor america or lie to us or do things he honestly didnt feel was best for our nation. Thats the leader I look for, someone who is 100% devoted to america.

when i was really into politics (i.e. arguing with people on why they are wrong and I am right), I used to like what Pat Buchannon had to say.

What woud it take for me to change? lying or knowlingly misleading. I cant stand it. Bush knowingly put forth half-truths while turning a blind eye to contradicting facts when he made his cae for us to go to war at his state of the union address. to use a fairly hallowed and special presedential speech for propoganda and strict party interest disgusted me.

If I think Obama lies to a degree that repulses me like others have in the past, i will change. (ps bill lying about a BJ isnt close to being enough)

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'll talk about it. It should've never been done and was Bush and the Rs pandering to the the aging demographic for votes.

Dido's on that. It was also around that point the Rep. party forgot their conservative base and forgot about small government. I say that was the beginning of what we now know is the tea party. They got fed up with Bush over the next 6 yrs. then Obama took office and his spending along with what Bush did pushed people over the limit.