For all you D Hall lovers

[44ever]

^^^ Sooooo correct Sir.^^^^

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.

I disagree, Bodden is not on the downside of his carreer and I would rather have him then Springs.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.

What was mysterious about his injury? It was calf injury that originally occurred when he was kicked by Marcus Washington, and it was nagging injury that he kept aggravating whenever he would try to practice.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by vallin21

I disagree, Bodden is not on the downside of his carreer and I would rather have him then Springs.

When compared to Hall he is. But I would rather have Bodden than Sprins too. Just not at the expence of Hall.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.

Bodden is only two years older than Hall and unlike Hall, has a track record of success.

With that said, if they were both looking for the same money, I'd take Hall. The problem is that Hall is looking for a deal comparable to the Oakland mistake, and it's amazing that there's not more outrage about this.

If Hall signs here at his market value (3-4 mil per year, no more than 30% of the contract guaranteed), I have no problem at all with it. If he gets closer to 5-6 million per and half of the contract guaranteed, then looking to the future is not a very good defense of the contract.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Not at all actually. People (non media) who had daily interactions and contact with the Falcons organization throughout the time Hall was there. Yes, he can be a prima donna but he is far from the locker room cancer he's portrayed to be.

As for the Rogers stuff, not the same level of sources but his ego is well known to exceed his accomplishments.

You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.

It wasn't a double standard, I was directly replying to someone's commentary that letting Rogers go for the sake of keeping Hall would have 'a major negative impact in the locker room'. I could care less if they sing nursery rhymes or hurl soiled toilet paper at each other. I just want the best 22 players on the field.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Bodden is only two years older than Hall and unlike Hall, has a track record of success.

With that said, if they were both looking for the same money, I'd take Hall. The problem is that Hall is looking for a deal comparable to the Oakland mistake, and it's amazing that there's not more outrage about this.

If Hall signs here at his market value (3-4 mil per year, no more than 30% of the contract guaranteed), I have no problem at all with it. If he gets closer to 5-6 million per and half of the contract guaranteed, then looking to the future is not a very good defense of the contract.

Hall has been successful everywhere he's been except oakland, where he was horribly misused. as someone else pointed out, he's had the third most interceptions of active cornerbacks in the league since 2004. Not sure where Bodden is on the list, but hes not up there. Bodden really just had one GREAT year. Prior to 2007, he was just slighty above average (not that theres anything bad about that). 2008 was a really bad year for him, but then again, he was playing for detroit.

Hall is coming of a stellar end of the 2008 season. He was clearly the best corner on our roster, beating out Rogers for a starting role, despite the fact that Rogers had been in the system for 4 years and Hall had been in it for less than 4 weeks.

I agree we shouldnt overpay for Hall, but 5-6million a year is very reasonable for a starting cornerback, especially one with Halls playmaking ability and upside. its even moreso when you consider who the player salaries have been increasing 10-20% every year, and 5-6 million looks like a bargain. If Hall is willing to sign a 6 year, 48M contract with 15M garaunteed, with cap figures under 6M for the first 3 years, we would be getting one heck of a bargain. he would definitely garner that much, if not more, on the open market.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.

I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up, especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Hall has been successful everywhere he's been except oakland, where he was horribly misused. as someone else pointed out, he's had the third most interceptions of active cornerbacks in the league since 2004. Not sure where Bodden is on the list, but hes not up there. Bodden really just had one GREAT year. Prior to 2007, he was just slighty above average (not that theres anything bad about that). 2008 was a really bad year for him, but then again, he was playing for detroit.

Hall is coming of a stellar end of the 2008 season. He was clearly the best corner on our roster, beating out Rogers for a starting role, despite the fact that Rogers had been in the system for 4 years and Hall had been in it for less than 4 weeks.

I agree we shouldnt overpay for Hall, but 5-6million a year is very reasonable for a starting cornerback, especially one with Halls playmaking ability and upside. its even moreso when you consider who the player salaries have been increasing 10-20% every year, and 5-6 million looks like a bargain. If Hall is willing to sign a 6 year, 48M contract with 15M garaunteed, with cap figures under 6M for the first 3 years, we would be getting one heck of a bargain. he would definitely garner that much, if not more, on the open market.

Well, Hall's best two years have been his last two, if you exclude some of the Oakland data, at least. He does seem to have made a small jump after 2006, because before then, he could have been charitably described as below average.

I understand the whole interceptions thing, and he does catch a high % of balls I understand, but he also gets thrown at a ton, which is why that high INT stat is likely to stay. If we turn it into a TD-INT rate against, I'm sure it paints him in a different light.

Bodden's best two years were in 2005 and 2006 (ages 24 and 25, or the same as Halls best years), he actually had somewhat of a down year in 2007 before the trade, I thought, and then was only decent in 2008 compared to the rest of the DBs in Detroit. So he's two years removed from his last pro bowl caliber year.

DeAngelo Hall has never had a pro bowl caliber year. I understand he's made two pro bowls, but you are talking to a guy who thinks the selection process has become a joke, and that's one of my biggest points of evidence.

I am trying to be open minded here. Hall is getting better, and at a rate where the improvement seems real, at least statistically (as long as you average his Oakland play with his Washington play). Perhaps at a young age, there's a chance he might get even better. Or, he could go the way of Bodden now that he's at 25, and start to deteriorate physically. That's the crazy thing about being overrated...is that the money you are getting is generally going to exceed your on-field contributions.

I figured that getting released 7 games into a 70 million dollar deal would be a corrective measure for his value, but apparently, DeAngelo Hall's charm trancends logic.

[GTripp0012]

I also have a lot of fun with the "he was badly misused in Oakland" point. Seriously? You can play across the field from the best corner in all of football and still be misused? If you can't be a decent corner playing across from the best in the business, where can you succeed?

Washington, I guess. But still, 7 games are 7 games.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up, especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.

I agree.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up, especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.

^^^This is the key to keeping Rogers and keeping Rogers productive.

What we dont need is a guy who does'nt want to be here. Or a starter who feels he's not wanted or valued as a starter. Rogers is without a doubt a starter.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44ever

^^^This is the key to keeping Rogers and keeping Rogers productive.

What we dont need is a guy who does'nt want to be here. Or a starter who feels he's not wanted or valued as a starter. Rogers is no doubt a starter.

The fact that everyone but our defensive coordinator knows this worries me to no end.

[The Goat]

Who or what is the source of the rumor that Rogers wants out of DC? I haven't heard anything before this thread, although it's been in the back of my mind that he might want to go play for Williams.