Skins Viks Postgame

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Unfortunately this game turned out just as I thought it would:
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...ml#post1038802

You cant blame special teams for losing the game for us,that was an all around effort,but I said it would probably come down to who won the special teams battle and it did.

There was the fake punt that got the 5 yard penalty,then the 15 yarder on the punt which gave the ball to Minnesota with 41 yards to go,TD Vikings.
Then Rocca with a 33 yard punt to give the Vikes another short field at the 50,another Vikings td.
Its time for Rocca to go,he's just too inconsistant,he's good for at least 1 bad punt a game.

If this regime doesnt get a new punter next yr it just shows their incompetence.
Forbath cant kick it in the endzone,so we need to find a punter that can kickoff and punt.

Shanny is a complete fucking idiot for hiring this incompentent fuck. I hope to god we get rid of him and haslett at the end of the year. Sick of the excuses

[Summo]

I wasn't crazy about the play call at the end of the game either but Jeff Garcia made a good point on the NFL Am show this morning when he said that in thoes situations when the D is blitzing the corners play inside positions so that fade, out route should be there. I would have still called a different play, but I can see what he called that. He should have at least had a different receiver, some one with some hops like Reed or Garcon.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Summo

I wasn't crazy about the play call at the end of the game either but Jeff Garcia made a good point on the NFL Am show this morning when he said that in thoes situations when the D is blitzing the corners play inside positions so that fade, out route should be there. I would have still called a different play, but I can see what he called that. He should have at least had a different receiver, some one with some hops like Reed or Garcon.

I agree. I wasn't crazy over that call either, but if Moss was just able to drag his feet just a little bit, then the game goes into overtime.

I never like to complain about the refs, because good teams find a way to win despite bad officiating, but there were so many non-calls that should have been called that I really started to think the game was rigged. RGIII was hit late several times, but it was never called. Christian Ponder was hit the same exact way - personal foul penalty. Jordon Reed was held going into the end zone - no call. Personal foul penalties on the 'skins after the play - although the Minnesota players struck first. I just felt that during the whole game, the refs were completely one sided. Sometimes I see refs missing an obvious call or making a bad penalty call, but then go back later and kind of make things even. Not in this game. It was one bad no call after the other all night - mostly calls that would have benefited the 'skins, but the refs were going to have none of that.

But like I said, good teams win despite poor officiating and this team just isn't a good team. It's not the 3-6 team from a year ago that was good enough to overcome that hole and win the division - this team deserves 3-6.

[KI Skins Fan]

The Five Year Plan to rebuild the team is in deep trouble. I'm not surprised but I don't blame Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen as much as you might think. When they took over, they knew that it was going to take a combination of good drafts, quality Free Agent signings and a few smart trades to get back into contention.

No, our rebuild was not botched by S&A but it was derailed by the $36M cap penalty we suffered. The penalty, spread over two years, eviscerated the Redskins' FA plans - and it was imposed at the very last minute prior to FA two years ago.

If it were not for the cap penalty, we might well have star players such as Vincent Jackson, Aquib Talib, and Dannell Ellerbe on our roster right now. Plus, we would probably have added a proven safety and one or two quality OL and DL to the team. Alas, our timetable was set back - probably two years.

And I just keep getting older.

[DirtBagZ]

I think the whole they will go a run like last year talk needs to end, it is not going to happen. There are at least three more losses on the schedule, don't see this inconsistent team with no defense winning against the likes of San Francisco or KC, and I don't think they will sweep the Giants. The loss is definitely on the defense, but still I think Kyle gets too pass happy every time the game gets close. There seemed to be a couple of possessions in the second half where we got too pass happy and ended up with sacks and then having to punt.

I can understand why everyone is on the fire Haslett bandwagon, I am not though. In my mind there is one man responsible for all of this, and that is Mike Shannahan. This is his team, and his record as Redskins coach is 25W-32L, a whopping .438 win percentage. The win percentage speaks for itself. The defense is epically bad, and has been so ever since Shannahan arrived. I know many on this forum blame the 3-4, I don't think it is that simple. It is a gross lack of talent in the front seven, the so called 'strength' of the defense.

I am not going to bash Bowen or Coefield, both are good players, just not elite, and that is the Skins' problem. They don't have a single elite pass rusher on this team and the two guys who are supposed to be elite, are not, Orako is okay, and Kerrigan is decent. The lack of pass rush has been an issue for long time, and honestly I cannot recall a dominant Redskins defensive lineman since the old '80's teams with Dexter Manley and Charles Mann coming off the edge. I do recall plenty of epic free agent busts and guys past their prime, Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkerson, Danna Stubblefield, Bruce Smith, and of course Albert Hanyesworth. For as long as I can remember it seems that the pass rush for this team is supposed to come from linebacker position, Ken Harvey during the Norv years, LaVarr Arrington, and now the Orakpo/Kerrigan combo.

So, I don't know what the answer is and I don't think there are any 'quick' fixes. I suspect the fact that Bowen is playing with I believe a torn ligament is not helping, but what does that say about the depth behind him, when they cannot beat out a guy with just one good leg?

[RFKRat]

Originally Posted by DirtBagZ

I think the whole they will go a run like last year talk needs to end, it is not going to happen. There are at least three more losses on the schedule, don't see this inconsistent team with no defense winning against the likes of San Francisco or KC, and I don't think they will sweep the Giants. The loss is definitely on the defense, but still I think Kyle gets too pass happy every time the game gets close. There seemed to be a couple of possessions in the second half where we got too pass happy and ended up with sacks and then having to punt.

I can understand why everyone is on the fire Haslett bandwagon, I am not though. In my mind there is one man responsible for all of this, and that is Mike Shannahan. This is his team, and his record as Redskins coach is 25W-32L, a whopping .438 win percentage. The win percentage speaks for itself. The defense is epically bad, and has been so ever since Shannahan arrived. I know many on this forum blame the 3-4, I don't think it is that simple. It is a gross lack of talent in the front seven, the so called 'strength' of the defense.

I am not going to bash Bowen or Coefield, both are good players, just not elite, and that is the Skins' problem. They don't have a single elite pass rusher on this team and the two guys who are supposed to be elite, are not, Orako is okay, and Kerrigan is decent. The lack of pass rush has been an issue for long time, and honestly I cannot recall a dominant Redskins defensive lineman since the old '80's teams with Dexter Manley and Charles Mann coming off the edge. I do recall plenty of epic free agent busts and guys past their prime, Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkerson, Danna Stubblefield, Bruce Smith, and of course Albert Hanyesworth. For as long as I can remember it seems that the pass rush for this team is supposed to come from linebacker position, Ken Harvey during the Norv years, LaVarr Arrington, and now the Orakpo/Kerrigan combo.

So, I don't know what the answer is and I don't think there are any 'quick' fixes. I suspect the fact that Bowen is playing with I believe a torn ligament is not helping, but what does that say about the depth behind him, when they cannot beat out a guy with just one good leg?

Agree 100% with the Shanahan comment. I wasn't overly thrilled with his hire to begin with, his track record (one playoff win in fourteen seasons) speaks for itself. Many of those years he had pretty talented teams too. But this Redskin team just seems to find ways to lose under him. His son and Haslett as well are just as much to blame, but it starts with the head coach who seems to be more arrogant than anything else.

Last night is a perfect example. Playing a woeful Vikings team that was missing eight starters, and this team gets whipped in the second half and loses a game it couldn't afford to. That's just another example of the ugly kind of loss this team has had over and over under Shanahan. Poor plays, consistent stupid penalties, all are hallmarks of his time here. The list could go on and on.

I don't get the "we're still in it" or the "we came back from 3-6 last year" crowds. Last year was last year, and yeah they still might be in it but they're 0-2 in this awful division and there are probably more losses to come.

The three wins they've had have been very lucky. Flynn was absolutely awful for Oakland but the Redskins still struggled to win that one. If Pryor plays it's probably a loss. The Bears lost Cutler but then McCown proceeded to shred the Redskins. If Chicago isn't missing several key players on defense that's probably a loss too. San Diego gave the Redskins a gift with that inexplicable playcalling down on the one yard line....

This is a bad football team from top to bottom...I would not expect a run like last season, and even if they do somehow win the division, I can't see them beating anyone decent in the playoffs, and I'm not sure where to go from here...

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by DirtBagZ

I think the whole they will go a run like last year talk needs to end, it is not going to happen. There are at least three more losses on the schedule, don't see this inconsistent team with no defense winning against the likes of San Francisco or KC, and I don't think they will sweep the Giants. The loss is definitely on the defense, but still I think Kyle gets too pass happy every time the game gets close. There seemed to be a couple of possessions in the second half where we got too pass happy and ended up with sacks and then having to punt.

I have called Kyle out on his play calling in the past (on more than one occasion), but I have been thinking about this, and I am starting to think that Kyle just knows that the defense is going to give up points on every drive so he HAS to score a TD on every possession. That's a lot of pressure put on the offense every week, knowing that if you don't score a TD every time you touch the ball your team is going to lose. Maybe this leads him to be over-agressive at times, or causes him to over analyze situations and get too cute with the playcalling on occasion, especially when the game is close. I mean this defense has given up over 30 points six times this year.

Don't you just know that when the other team's offense has the ball, unless THEY make a mistake it is going to result in points?

So does Kyle.

This season is more about piss poor defense (tackling, scheme, personnel, whatever you want to point to) than it is about RGIII not being 100%, or play calling or anything else.

[Chico23231]

Josh Wilson was miserable last night

[skinsfaninok]

This years team has no chance to finish better than 8-8 IMO, the D is just too bad. What else could Griff and CO. do last night? Over 400 yards and 27 points on the road?

[sandtrapjack]

Gotta be honest, when the 'Skins were up by 10 at the half, and the way they were scoring at well in the first 2 quarters, I changed the channel to watch OU @ Baylor. Seeing the blowout by Baylor was will in hand, I changed back to NFLN and saw Minn up by 1.

For those that are venting their frustrations on the final drive, I offer two observations:

1. The PI penalty no call. Referees are going to let teams play it out in the final minute of a close game. They are NOT going to let a penalty dictate the outcome, unless it is blatant and obvious. That PI in the end zone will have 2 schools of thought on it.
1. A missed call or
2. A good 'no call'.

I concur that the roughing call on Ponder in the first half should not have been called. Looked like a clean, legal hit to me. But the NFL has been tossing those type of flags on every team in every game this season. But honestly, in the final minute of a one score game, when you are on the opponents goal line, the officials simply are not going to dictate the outcome unless it is obvious.

2. The 4th and goal fade to Moss. Watch the replay, even if Moss had dragged his foot, it was obvious he did not have control of the ball until he was well out of bounds and on the ground. Gotta have control and both feet to be a legit reception.

Last point: the way the team played in the first half says that they should have never put themselves in a position needing a 4th quarter drive to tie the game. Redskins got outscored 20-3 in the second half. Put your frustrations on that.

Have to also state that the Redskins played an OT game on Sunday, had a short week and had to travel. Additionally, the Vikes lost a close one at Dallas on Sunday on a 90 yard drive in the final minute, you can bet they put in some over time in preparing thier 2 minute defense and were not going to let that happen two weeks in a row.

Silver lining: 'Skins still in the hunt for the division as they will not lose ground to Dallas. The Cowboys are going to get destroyed by New Orleans on Sunday Night.

And for the Sean Taylor reference earlier. At the end of the day, it's just a game. There will be a winner and a loser, that's the way they are designed.

ST was a tragedy. Lets try and keep perspective, shall we?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Gotta be honest, when the 'Skins were up by 10 at the half, and the way they were scoring at will in the first 2 quarters, I changed the channel to watch OU @ Baylor. Seeing the blowout by Baylor was will in hand, I changed back to NFLN and saw Minn up by 1.

For those that are venting their frustrations on the final drive, I offer two observations:

1. The PI penalty no call. Referees are going to let teams play it out in the final minute of a close game. They are NOT going to let a penalty dictate the outcome, unless it is blatant and obvious. That PI in the end zone will have 2 schools of thought on it.
1. A missed call or
2. A good 'no call'.

I concur that the roughing call on Ponder in the first half should not have been called. Looked like a clean, legal hit to me. But the NFL has been tossing those type of flags on every team in every game this season. But honestly, in the final minute of a one score game, when you are on the opponents goal line, the officials simply are not going to dictate the outcome unless it is obvious.

2. The 4th and goal fade to Moss. Watch the replay, even if Moss had dragged his foot, it was obvious he did not have control of the ball until he was well out of bounds and on the ground. Gotta have control and both feet to be a legit reception.

Last point: the way the team played in the first half says that they should have never put themselves in a position needing a 4th quarter drive to tie the game. Redskins got outscored 20-3 in the second half. Put your frustrations on that.

Silver lining: 'Skins still in the hunt for the division as they will not lose ground to Dallas. The Cowboys are going to get destroyed by New Orleans on Sunday Night.

And for the Sean Taylor reference earlier. At the end of the day, it's just a game. There will be a winner and a loser, that's the way they are designed.

ST was a tragedy. Lets try and keep perspective, shall we?

Thanks Jack. And I agree with most of what you said. Especially the part about the Cowboys getting destroyed by New Orleans on Sunday night! j/k

I honestly say, whoever wins the NFC east hasn't won much this year. Yes, they'll get into the playoffs and will probably be badly embarrassed.

[MTK]

For people complaining about the throw to Moss, he's made plenty of tightrope type of catches in his career to justify him being a legit target in that situation, and keep in mind Griffin ultimately made the decision to make the throw to him. Griffin obviously trusts him and he got open. And it's not like the ball was over his head where his height was an issue. He was inches away from getting his 2nd foot down.

[DirtBagZ]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

For people complaining about the throw to Moss, he's made plenty of tightrope type of catches in his career to justify him being a legit target in that situation, and keep in mind Griffin ultimately made the decision to make the throw to him. Griffin obviously trusts him and he got open. And it's not like the ball was over his head where his height was an issue. He was inches away from getting his 2nd foot down.

I'll never forget Moss catching those two bombs from Brunell to beat the Cowboys. The bottom line, it never should have come down to needing a last second desperate score to tie the game.

The total melt down, not even showing up on the field play of the special teams and defense have doomed this team this season. The offense will be under intense pressure to basically have to score a TD every time they touch the ball to compensate for what is so grossly wrong with the rest of the team. Needless to say, that does not bode well for a successful season.

[Summo]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

For people complaining about the throw to Moss, he's made plenty of tightrope type of catches in his career to justify him being a legit target in that situation, and keep in mind Griffin ultimately made the decision to make the throw to him. Griffin obviously trusts him and he got open. And it's not like the ball was over his head where his height was an issue. He was inches away from getting his 2nd foot down.

I think that play in that situation is too hit or miss, you need a perfect throw and a tight rope catch. If they were down by a FG then why not try it.

[scowan]

I was really depressed last night with this team. The Redskins' defense is beyond bad. The playcall to Moss doesn't bother me at all. It just should have never come down to that. When you allow 34 points to the Vikings you should lose, simple as that. I know the Redskins defense went on a run last year to help them get into the playoffs, but it was mostly due to them getting turnovers late in the season. If this Defense can't get turnovers, they can't get off the field on their own. They just can't stop anyone.

And the Special teams are anything but special. Forbath is fine, but the penalties and the lack of disipline is just aweful.

Our offense played a great game, RG3, Morris, Garcon, Reed, what more can you ask of them? 27 points should have been enough to beat the Vikings when you win the turnover battle, but this team can't stop anyone. Just very depressing.