Redskins Win In Appeals Court

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Did changing the name from the Bullits to the Wizards hurt the team?

Well they weren't named the Bullits, but you have to understand that pro basketball is not the number one team in the DC area. Is like if they changed the name of the NY Rangers vs. changing the name of the Yankees. I'm sure some people cared, but changing the name of the Bullets/Wizards won't have the same reaction as changing the name of the Redskins.

Pesonally, I thought changing the name of Bullets was ridiculous, as I don't think changing the name made any difference in the crime that happens in DC.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Look if it makes you all feel better change the name to the Washington Crackers. I don't care. I'll still root for the local team. It's just a shame that people have nothing better to do in their lives then to take up time and energy trying to change a name of an organization instead of simply enjoying life and having fun.

I see them as the one busy boddy in the neighbor hood who can't keep his or her nose out of other peoples business and has to complain about everything cause their lives are so misserable they have to make sure no one else is happy.

Thats one way to look at it. Or you can look at it as a group of people who dont like to see a racial slur as a team name of a football franchise.

I like our team name because we honor Indians and have alot of respect for them and their history. I can understand why some Indians have a problem with it though.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well they weren't named the Bullits, but you have to understand that pro basketball is not the number one team in the DC area. Is like if they changed the name of the NY Rangers vs. changing the name of the Yankees. I'm sure some people cared, but changing the name of the Bullets/Wizards won't have the same reaction as changing the name of the Redskins.

Pesonally, I thought changing the name of Bullets was ridiculous, as I don't think changing the name made any difference in the crime that happens in DC.

That was just an excuse the owner used to be able to change the name. Crime stayed the same. The only difference was perhaps because the colors were mostly red and white the owner saw gang members purchasing the products, but thats no different then the NY Yankees making hats in different colors to accomodate those individuals. Or how about all the other teams that have gang members using their logos.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well they weren't named the Bullits, but you have to understand that pro basketball is not the number one team in the DC area. Is like if they changed the name of the NY Rangers vs. changing the name of the Yankees. I'm sure some people cared, but changing the name of the Bullets/Wizards won't have the same reaction as changing the name of the Redskins.

Pesonally, I thought changing the name of Bullets was ridiculous, as I don't think changing the name made any difference in the crime that happens in DC.

So did I, I'm not a big basketball guy and I was really just asking , I don't know if it did or it did'nt.
MPO.....I think these groups are reaching ,but times change what wasn't offensive in the 30's and 40'..is now,we must be politicly correct.Thing is as a young kid I did study Indian folklore and there is some truth to what they say.
Should the team and Dan Snyder be held responsable for thing that happen a long time ago ....no but in todays world well ya just never know.

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Pesonally, I thought changing the name of Bullets was ridiculous, as I don't think changing the name made any difference in the crime that happens in DC.

I never understood the name change. The reasons around the change were weak imo. Just like the Wizards name and logo since the change.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Your "YouTube" video does not count as research. Anyone can put whatever they want on there and try to call it factual. There is no substance to that video what so ever. Try again...

ok, how about this ?


REDSKIN, A HATE WORD DEFINED page 1

P.S. this is a good article from the Washington Post in 2005.


A Linguist's Alternative History of 'Redskin'

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Giantone

ok, how about this ?


REDSKIN, A HATE WORD DEFINED page 1

P.S. this is a good article from the Washington Post in 2005.


A Linguist's Alternative History of 'Redskin'

Again all these points are moot because that is not how the team's name ever was meant. And today again it represents the name Redskin in a good way like all other sports teams try to represent their towns and logos.

So after they get rid of Redskins, do they get rid of the name cowboys because some cowboys in the past committed atrocities against Native Americans. Then it never stops. If this is how you really feel then i respect your opinion but you sound like your just taking the devil's advocate approach.

[hooskins]

Washington Reds

[hooskins]

This is racist...

[Coff]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm just going to repost my thoughts from the last time this topic came up.

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of
supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not
represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly
disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

Well said.

[70Chip]

I just read the decision and for those in the know, this is the David Sentelle D.C. Federal Appeals Court. There's nothing in it but a lot of kick the can down the road legaleze. The case was filed in 1992. The original court threw it out. The appeals court disagreed and told them to try again and they did. Now the appeals court approves of their decision. But the decision has nothing whatever to do with the moral acceptability of the word "Redskins". It's all about obscure questions of who has standing, laches, the attitude of Ed Williams in 1967. It's all bullshit, in other words. The court has no interest in chiming in about wether the word "Redskins" has any value at all. In fact, the whole opinion seems to me an elaborate attempt to avoid the very same. If I were to sum it up, I would do it this way: "The word Redskins may very well be offensive but that's not the Goddam business of this Court. Now we'll give you ten pages of nonsense so we don't have say it in such a vulgar way."

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Again all these points are moot because that is not how the team's name ever was meant. And today again it represents the name Redskin in a good way like all other sports teams try to represent their towns and logos.

Like I said in an earlier post what was ok back in the 30's,40's or 50's isn't ok now.Wether like it or not the team name depicts native American skin color and no other name does that.Like it or not it makes for interesting discussion.So I guess my question to you is....pick a slur and ethnic slur and use it in a good way and tell me what happens?

[Ijaeger]

They will always be the Redskins to me, regardless.

[Paintrain]

I lived in Atlanta in the 90's at the height of the Braves era of (alleged) dominance and I could see the Tomahawk Chop as somewhat offensive to Native Americans, mocking their war cries for a meaningless rallying cry. I know FSU does it, but they have also gone out of their way to embrace the Seminole tribe and have been very careful to their sensibilities. That being said, outside of the name and logo I've never felt the Redskins did anything to 'exploit' the Native American/Indian connection. An argument could be made about some of the Hail to the Redskins lyrics but it would be a stretch. I've never seen the correlation and being a minority I've not drawn the parallel to if they were called something derogatory to my race or any others.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by bigm29

Same applies to the N word. who really cares... get over it

There's a LOT of history tied to this word.. Without derailing the thread, it's comparing apples to oranges. Redskin was never universally used as a derogatory term used to oppress a race of people. Not the same thing.