F$ck Dallas! Game thread

[calia]

I figured about 6 or 7. Obviously injuries are a problem, especially for a team without real depth. And I would be the first to say that there are certain aspects of our season where the team has outperformed expectations -- e.g., the kicking game (save for yesterday), our secondary (only 1 300 yard passer so far this season), Crowder, and the Scherff-Moses tandem on the right O line. But I still believe that they could do more with what they have, and watching flat performances like last night is beyond frustrating.

BTW, I note that the Bears seem eerily similar to the Redskins right now in certain respects (5-7 record, just lost a close one against a team they were expected to beat at home): Bears intend to bounce back from loss

We will see the kind of character this team has on Sunday.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by calia

I figured about 6 or 7. Obviously injuries are a problem, especially for a team without real depth. And I would be the first to say that there are certain aspects of our season where the team has outperformed expectations -- e.g., the kicking game (save for yesterday), our secondary (only 1 300 yard passer so far this season), Crowder, and the Scherff-Moses tandem on the right O line. But I still believe that they could do more with what they have, and watching flat performances like last night is beyond frustrating.



BTW, I note that the Bears seem eerily similar to the Redskins right now in certain respects (5-7 record, just lost a close one against a team they were expected to beat at home): Bears intend to bounce back from loss



We will see the kind of character this team has on Sunday.

Before the season with group A you thought 6-7 wins.
Season starts and we have huge amounts of injuries to group A.
Week 13 - 5 wins for Group A and you are expecting more.
It is illogical as Dr Spock would say.
You are suffering from a reality check. Lol. The good news is that Group A is in first place. That is something completely unexpected. Every game is a playoff game now. We will hope for the best. We were bound to lose at home and we are bound to win on the road.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by calia

Pretty hacked off about the loss. No excuse for playing so flat, dumb penalties, and for the completely unimaginative play calling. We had a chance TO ELIMINATE DALLAS ONCE AND FOR ALL this season and we didn't take it. We had a chance to actually win back-to-back games for the first time in I cannot recall and we didn't take it. We had a chance to go up two games in the division with only a few weeks remaining and we didn't take it.

In sum, we had a chance to actually show we're a team that has taken the next step from the shit show it has been for two decades (with the exception of the 2012 7 game win streak, which now seems a fluke) to something approximating a real NFL franchise -- and we didn't take it.

Against the Cowboys. At home. On national tv.

If you're not sick about this game, you should be.

I get it -- we've been better than last year (competitive in most games, already more Ws, etc.). And we seem to have some parts coming together which bodes well for the future.

But c'mon -- you play this game for the opportunity to go out and compete on nights like last night, and we just didn't. D played reasonably well, but couldn't make stops in the end. Special teams was pretty crappy. Offense was largely uninspired and couldn't get much going all night.

We had very good opportunities to win against Miami, Atlanta, and now Dallas. Winning those games is the difference between 5-7 and 8-4 -- in other words, from being a mediocre (at best) team to a winning team in command of our division. We have been the former for so long, many of us are starved for the latter. Knowing that we may get there in 2016 or 2017 is cold comfort when the opportunity was there in 2015.

Simply put, I imagine this is how Dallas fans felt when we beat them last year.

It was a division game, and we lost. That's frustrating. The team seems to be making small steps every week, even in last night's loss.

But I will say this, I expect us to beat both the Bears and the Bills in the next 2 weeks. I think this loss gives the team that much push to succeed.

[RedskinJake]

To be fair, it's hard to have a strong hard count when you are more likely to get a false start than offsides. This isn't the first team o-line.

And I don't care if we were 2-9 coming into the game, there was no reason they shouldn't have come out looking for a fight. That was weak.. They laid down right when it mattered. Joe Barry and Perry Fewell are doing a hell of a job coaching a lot of guys up and they played with fire so I'm excited about that but the offense and special teams needs the same.

[rocnrik]

What I saw was the Redskins got out coached big time! we had no answer for the pass rush..In fact Kirk played darn well with the amount of pressure he was getting. Our D played well..we won the turnover battle yet could do nothing with it ..The play calling was bad ..This loss is on Gruden.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

What I saw was the Redskins got out coached big time! we had no answer for the pass rush..In fact Kirk played darn well with the amount of pressure he was getting. Our D played well..we won the turnover battle yet could do nothing with it ..The play calling was bad ..This loss is on Gruden.

Gruden did not run backwards and fumble the ball costing us a chance to win and 7 the other way. Gruden did not miss a fg. Gruden did not halt two drives with two of the most disgusting calls of the year. Those four things amount to about a 10-20 point swing, even in a game dominated by defense. He pulled almo n put in jones which was the rite thing to do. KC missed two deep passes by mere inches. I think after the initial and completely out of the ordinary onslaught of blitzes by Dallas he adjusted well. Personnel is just as important as scheme and we do not have the personnel yet. It is not as easy as we make it sound to just do something that works all the time. Once SM builds alittle more I think he n Gruden will make wonderful music together. It is easy to point fingers and blame things on this guy or that guy but the reality is we do not have the personnel yet. That is unfortunately going to take more than two years.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

What I saw was the Redskins got out coached big time! we had no answer for the pass rush..In fact Kirk played darn well with the amount of pressure he was getting. Our D played well..we won the turnover battle yet could do nothing with it ..The play calling was bad ..This loss is on Gruden.

I've been a Gruden defender, but last night's game really pissed me off.

I hated the offensive game plan, and the play calling.

Gruden and McVay don't go back to plays or concepts that work or burn teams.

They were killing them with boot, and short passing game.

I guess it was working too well so they need to mix it up? SMH.

If it's working, DO IT, DON'T STOP DOING IT.

EDIT:

Just heard Cooley throw out the stat that we ran the ball 75% on 1st down at 1.8 yards per carry.

I really don't understand this staff sometimes. At times they seem dynamic and innovative and last night they seemed dumb.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

I've been a Gruden defender, but last night's game really pissed me off.

I hated the offensive game plan, and the play calling.

Gruden and McVay don't go back to plays or concepts that work or burn teams.

They were killing them with boot, and short passing game.

I guess it was working too well so they need to mix it up? SMH.

If it's working, DO IT, DON'T STOP DOING IT.

EDIT:

Just heard Cooley throw out the stat that we ran the ball 75% on 1st down at 1.8 yards per carry.

I really don't understand this staff sometimes. At times they seem dynamic and innovative and last night they seemed dumb.

I agree 100%.

I'm on the fence about Gruden and here's why:

On the positive side, I think that the team plays hard for him and that he and his position coaches are doing a good job of developing young talent.

On the other hand, I think that his too-conservative and very predictable play-calling is holding back the team, as you described.

Gruden has his flaws, yet I hate the idea of going through yet another HC change. I'm wondering if SM could step in and make it work with Gruden as HC by insisting that Gruden hire an experienced and successful OC to call the plays and spice up the offense next season.

[NoCalHail]

Of course I am upset about the loss, but it's more because it just confirms that the team is still who they largely have been. I had no illusions that this was a 9-7 team. Just because the rest of the division if poor, it doesn't make us better than we were going to be, it just gives us an opportunity to win the division despite still being that kind of team.

We have to face the fact that whatever team wins the NFC East in 2015 is going to stumble backwards into it. None of them are going to go on any kind of run and establish themselves.

[sdskinsfan2001]

7 picks, 7 positions I think are priority in no particular order. And not saying they won't or shouldn't pick 2 at same position or sign free agents instead:

TE
LG
C
WR (don't think they'll keep Jackson and Garcon)
OLB
ILB
S

[NoCalHail]

Therein lies the dilemma though. Do you fire a coach go who's scheme itself seems solid, but the play calling is questionable? Is there a way to address the play calling itself without making changes in staff?

This was one of my main issues with Kyle SHanahan being his daddy's underling. I actually quite liked Kyle's scheme concepts, however I felt he wasn't the greatest at calling plays in certain situations and I always felt that maybe his dad and him bumped heads with their philosophy and approach. I really would have liked to see what Kyle could have done without having to get approval from his daddy.

[Schneed10]

Our predictable tendencies are dictated by injuries and the lack of a few competencies at key positions. You've seen Jordan Reed get flagged a million times when trying to block. He sucks at it, doesn't get his feet into proper position to allow a powerful engagement. We don't have TEs that can block well, so we put Compton in as a 2nd TE and that just absolutely gives away that we're running.

The Niles Paul injury has been extremely costly. He was going to be our do-it-all TE. Then when we lost both Steiger and Lauvao we find ourselves getting beat in the interior too often. We set the edge pretty well - Trent and Moses do well there and Scherff is getting to the 2nd level well. But too often we give up penetration in the middle between LeRib and Long.

We can't run between the tackles because of them, everything goes to the edge. Again, too much of a tendency, but what can Jay do?

McC is doing a great job building depth but we simply need more. Give him a few more drafts and this thing might look pretty good. I don't think Jay would have the same tendencies if he had some core competencies on the field.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Our predictable tendencies are dictated by injuries and the lack of a few competencies at key positions. You've seen Jordan Reed get flagged a million times when trying to block. He sucks at it, doesn't get his feet into proper position to allow a powerful engagement. We don't have TEs that can block well, so we put Compton in as a 2nd TE and that just absolutely gives away that we're running.

The Niles Paul injury has been extremely costly. He was going to be our do-it-all TE. Then when we lost both Steiger and Lauvao we find ourselves getting beat in the interior too often. We set the edge pretty well - Trent and Moses do well there and Scherff is getting to the 2nd level well. But too often we give up penetration in the middle between LeRib and Long.

We can't run between the tackles because of them, everything goes to the edge. Again, too much of a tendency, but what can Jay do?

McC is doing a great job building depth but we simply need more. Give him a few more drafts and this thing might look pretty good. I don't think Jay would have the same tendencies if he had some core competencies on the field.

well said!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Our predictable tendencies are dictated by injuries and the lack of a few competencies at key positions. You've seen Jordan Reed get flagged a million times when trying to block. He sucks at it, doesn't get his feet into proper position to allow a powerful engagement. We don't have TEs that can block well, so we put Compton in as a 2nd TE and that just absolutely gives away that we're running.



The Niles Paul injury has been extremely costly. He was going to be our do-it-all TE. Then when we lost both Steiger and Lauvao we find ourselves getting beat in the interior too often. We set the edge pretty well - Trent and Moses do well there and Scherff is getting to the 2nd level well. But too often we give up penetration in the middle between LeRib and Long.



We can't run between the tackles because of them, everything goes to the edge. Again, too much of a tendency, but what can Jay do?



McC is doing a great job building depth but we simply need more. Give him a few more drafts and this thing might look pretty good. I don't think Jay would have the same tendencies if he had some core competencies on the field.

Exactly. I love how people think an nfl coach simply does not understand the game. Lol. If it were so easy to just plug n play with anybody there would never be a bad team.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Our predictable tendencies are dictated by injuries and the lack of a few competencies at key positions. You've seen Jordan Reed get flagged a million times when trying to block. He sucks at it, doesn't get his feet into proper position to allow a powerful engagement. We don't have TEs that can block well, so we put Compton in as a 2nd TE and that just absolutely gives away that we're running.

The Niles Paul injury has been extremely costly. He was going to be our do-it-all TE. Then when we lost both Steiger and Lauvao we find ourselves getting beat in the interior too often. We set the edge pretty well - Trent and Moses do well there and Scherff is getting to the 2nd level well. But too often we give up penetration in the middle between LeRib and Long.

We can't run between the tackles because of them, everything goes to the edge. Again, too much of a tendency, but what can Jay do?

McC is doing a great job building depth but we simply need more. Give him a few more drafts and this thing might look pretty good. I don't think Jay would have the same tendencies if he had some core competencies on the field.

I get what your saying and agree in spirit. It isn't the team he wants. I agree 100% losing Niles Paul was huge and would argue losing Paulson is big too based on the preference for running out of 2 TE sets and Reed's tendency to get flagged. I believe they could actually have all three of those guys on the field on certain plays and kill it with Reed in the slot or even motioning out as a receiver.

But we don't have those guys.

We have a probowl level FB.

I'm really disappointed that this staff can't work a dude of DY's caliber into the game. Especially when you see other teams doing it with success. Greenbay, Carolina, and Seattle are all examples of teams using a FB with success. I'm pretty sure Seattle's FB even poses no threat to catch a pass out of the backfield.

Is Callahan the delicate genius (from Seinfeld) who won't run with 2 backs?

If they are determined to run the ball between the tackles without regard to it working or not, then why not try a 2 back set. DY can catch better that Compton and Nseke and at least poses some threat vs. no threat.

The coaches seem to have tried everything but putting a really talented player (DY) in the game without success, why not try it?

And to answer your question directly as to what Jay could do, he could have called boot until the LBs stopped ignoring KC. Watching the game live I realized the boot plays were successful but after listening to the radio on Tuesday and going back and watching most of the game again, Cooley and CP are right. Dallas' LB and DE were completely ignoring Kirk on boot.

Just keep calling it, the worst thing that should happen on that play is he throws it in the dirt or out of bounds. It might even open up the run game a bit.

As far as tendencies, this team has moved the ball the best doing the west coast style. We want to be a running team, but right now we just aren't. Assuming that's correct, why not do more west coast passing and earlier in the game while the score is closer?

Put Jones in the backfield out of shotgun, he can run, block, or catch.

I'm an armchair expert who knows just enough to embarrass myself on a fan forum but even after a day or two am still extremely frustrated by the decisions made in that game.