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[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

I have a hard time believing that Mike and the organization would leak anything to disparage McNabb.

What does Mike have to gain by tarnishing McNabb's image? McNabb already has a nye-untradeable contract, but with teams panicky about the lockout and getting a veteran quarterback, some team might be desperate enough to cough up a few mid-round draft picks for him. It certainly doesn't help McNabb's trade value to leak anything to the press.......

It helps to protect his sons reputation. Kyle made a great name for himself in Houston. However it has become very clear that offense in Houston is great with or with out Kyle. Kyle's first year in Washington did not go as expected. Say what you want about McNabb, but there has been a lot of negative information that has leaked out of Redskins headquarters. But I guess you think that is a coincidence.
It is also no secret that Mike wants Kyle to be the next Head Coach in DC. Don't need a road map to figure out what happened.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

They are publicly blame shifting. Turning the focus from a poor system/player/personality evaluation to McNabb not wanting to wear a wristband, or McNabb not practicing with great urgency. If Shany would accept his portion of the blame I would consider it reciprocal fault, but he hasn't for the sake of maintaining appearences. Sounds like scapegoating to me.

I find the 'leaks' to be the most troubling part of the McNabb vs Kyle fiasco.

Originally Posted by NLC1054

But Donovan, time and time and time again, gets the benefit of the doubt over his fellow players and his coaches.

Benefit of the doubt?
McNabb's career speaks for itself.
Men lie.
Women lie.
Numbers don't.

[NLC1054]

Kyle had the same problems McNabb had to deal with; he didn't have the offensive line they had in Houston, nor the weapons, and on top of all that, he was saddled with a quarterback that Mike traded for, against his wishes.

So he doesn't have any of the things that helped him succeed to begin with. He has a quarterback that not only doesn't really fit his scheme, but also has issues with work ethic and wants the offense to run more like the one he wants in Philly. And then he adds the things he doesn't really want in his offense (the screens, that stupid friggin' shovel pass that I hate with a fiery, deadly passion), and the guy still has trouble with the offense.

Plus he doesn't talk to Kyle on the sidelines, doesn't practice hard during the week, doesn't put in all the film study he needs to...

It's kind of a two way street. I'm not saying Kyle wasn't part of the problem; I'm saying that Donovan McNabb was a part of the problem that no one wants to talk about.

And again; the same things we're hearing now are things that we heard about him in Philly. It's just amplified because this is the Redskins and it's apparently funny to watch the Redskins fail, or something.

The work ethic, the lack of conditioning, issues with wristbands and clock management problems, trouble spitting out the playcalls, the bad practice habits. None of this is really new news.

I don't think pretending Kyle's rep matters to Mike much, and if Kyle wasn't the right guy for the job, we'd have another offensive coordinator or Mike would take over as the coordinator by now.

And has Mike ever said he wants Kyle to be the next head coach in Washington?

At what point does McNabb also shoulder some of the blame is the only thing I want to know.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

It's kind of a two way street. I'm not saying Kyle wasn't part of the problem; I'm saying that Donovan McNabb was a part of the problem that no one wants to talk about.

You might be new here so maybe you didn't know.
But, I do believe you the order mixed up.
Most Redskin's fans readily talk about and blame McNabb.
And conversely most fans give Kyle a pass.

I don't think pretending Kyle's rep matters to Mike much, and if Kyle wasn't the right guy for the job, we'd have another offensive coordinator or Mike would take over as the coordinator by now.

Just out of curiosity do you have kids?
There is no way Mike would take over as playcaller, and if it did happen there is no way that would get leaked.
Mike isn't going end his own sons coaching career by stripping him of playcalling duties, ain't gonna happen.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

You might be new here so maybe you didn't know.
But, I do believe you the order mixed up.
Most Redskin's fans readily talk about and blame McNabb.
And conversely most fans give Kyle a pass.

Just out of curiosity do you have kids?
There is no way Mike would take over as playcaller, and if it did happen there is no way that would get leaked.
Mike isn't going end his own sons coaching career by stripping him of playcalling duties, ain't gonna happen.

Thank you 30gut, you beat me to the reply. I am not sure where NLC1050 has been the last 9 months, but majority of the blame has been on McNabb. It really does not matter if it is right or wrong, it just is the truth. As pretty as we want the Shanahan family partnership/experiment to be, nepotism unfortunately has many down sides.

[SirClintonPortis]

He might be the most productive QB for us out of all those Florida QBs that Spurrier coached. haha

[fanarchist]

I didn't say Mike leaked the story. I used the word they, meaning whom ever the unnamed but reliable sourses close to the redskins organization were. But just because it doesn't come from the mouth of the man doesn't mean the man was not involved.

If you leak something positive I guarantee it wouldn't hurt McNabb's stock. But that rarely occurs in the NOVA DC Metro area sports media.

I didn't say Mike Shanahan was not a leader. If you're going to critique my posts please don't infuse your own interpretation of my words and then critique yourself masquerading as me. What I said was....ah, no use in repeating myself it's right there in plain text for you to reread. And I'm well aware of his accomplishments, but thanks for the unnecessary history lesson.

I also never said Donovan was blameless. I said I was looking for a little equilibrium in the disbursement of blame. And perhaps a little more balance from you as well.

If the attitude problems all played out in Philly, why weren't our coaches able to speak to former teammates or former coaches to assess McNabb's personality issues prior to trading for him? Being that MS has been in the league for as many years as he has I'm certain he's built a rapport with several people who could give him an accurate depiction of McNabb's personal work habits.

[SirClintonPortis]

For all we know, it could have been camp McNabb who leaked the info so that the Shanahans would be forced to cut him and thus he can choose where to go.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

For all we know, it could have been camp McNabb who leaked the info so that the Shanahans would be forced to cut him and thus he can choose where to go.

He's under contract. We're not really being forced to do anything. Especially with everthing at a stand still. But you never know.

[MTK]

He may be the best QB on the roster but more importantly he's shown he's not the best fit for this offense.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He may be the best QB on the roster but more importantly he's shown he's not the best fit for this offense.

With the * that Kyle wasn't keen on having him run the offense from the beginning. I don't feel like your statement is an irrevocable truth when you consider the possibility that he wasn't given all the tools he needed to succeed. I think great coaches have to adapt to the personel that they are given, or that they inherit. I think that instead of working in concert for the betterment of the collective whole, there was an underlying power struggle between McNabb and Kyle. Both parties effected the outcome, but it's a coaches job to make his players feel comfortable, welcome and like there is an open line of communication, not simply to impose their will without any outside input.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

With the * that Kyle wasn't keen on having him run the offense from the beginning. I don't feel like your statement is an irrevocable truth when you consider the possibility that he wasn't given all the tools he needed to succeed. I think great coaches have to adapt to the personel that they are given, or that they inherit. I think that instead of working in concert for the betterment of the collective whole, there was an underlying power struggle between McNabb and Kyle. Both parties effected the outcome, but it's a coaches job to make his players feel comfortable, welcome and like there is an open line of communication, not simply to impose their will without any outside input.

Obviously for whatever reasons Kyle S. and McNabb just didn't mesh. I'm not going to pretend to know who's more at fault or more to blame, at this point it's just best for both parties to chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Obviously for whatever reasons Kyle S. and McNabb just didn't mesh. I'm not going to pretend to know who's more at fault or more to blame, at this point it's just best for both parties to chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

Agreed.

[NLC1054]

Kyle added stuff to the offense that clearly was more like stuff they run in Philly than it was stuff that he ran in Houston. In the second half of the season (after the benching), there were a lot more plays that "McNabb would be comfortable with" called.

It might be a coaches' job to make his players feel comfortable, but it's a player's job to go out and execute the plays as called. Donovan just didn't execute the way he was supposed to.

And there probably was a power struggle, but I think it had as much to do with veteran hard-headedness as it did with Kyle being slow to change his offense.

It's give and take. Even not wanting McNabb, I very much believe Kyle wanted to make it work. It didn't.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Kyle added stuff to the offense that clearly was more like stuff they run in Philly than it was stuff that he ran in Houston. In the second half of the season (after the benching), there were a lot more plays that "McNabb would be comfortable with" called.

It might be a coaches' job to make his players feel comfortable, but it's a player's job to go out and execute the plays as called. Donovan just didn't execute the way he was supposed to.

And there probably was a power struggle, but I think it had as much to do with veteran hard-headedness as it did with Kyle being slow to change his offense.

It's give and take. Even not wanting McNabb, I very much believe Kyle wanted to make it work. It didn't.

You're right. Eventually Kyle implemented a screen game. My question is why didn't he concede to doing it earlier in the season when we were having some fundamental problems in the run game? Not to say that screens cure all that ails, but it's definitely a proven and effective method to manifest some of the yards lost from forcing the run. They also help to expand a condensed and over persuing defense opening the middle of the field for quick slants and drag routes across the middle. The Saints use them. So do the Patriots and Indy runs designed wheel routes out of the backfield which essentially serves the same purpose. The Chargers, the Jags, Dallas. Obviously Philly uses the screen with great frequency and success.

I believe this is the forth time now that I'm saying that McNabb played his part in the downward spiraling.

If Kyle truly wanted to make it work he would have recognized DMs skill set and adapted his offense earlier.