Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I agree 100% with that.

If I saw right there was just one three-and-out the entire game (yes, it was Brunell). But anyway, that's a good job by our offense. And nice job by our receivers to run the right distance to get those first downs.

there MAY have been a 2nd, that 36yard penalty was basically a free 3 points for us... to bad we gave them a free 7 in return

either way, lets hope dallas goes a bit better. and i agree, we're not looking at a super bowl right now, we're looking for 8-8 and on from there.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Moss would have been in position had it not been for that grab.

[Paintrain]

In addition to the interception, the two plays that probably sum up why Gibbs made the switch are the Ramsey fumble that the OL recovered where he sat in the pocket for about 4 seconds waiting for someone to get open and then getting hit and fumbling and the play that Brunell had in the red zone where no-one was open, he scrambled and threw it out of bounds protecting the FG try. Potential turnover vs. points on the board. You make the call.

[MTK]

I saw something funny on ESPN last night, Brunell was the 2nd worst ranked QB last year and Ramsey was the 5th. So ultimately aren't we splitting hairs here? It's not like we're benching Montana and going to Heath Shuler.

[onlydarksets]

This was interesting from the Post (about PR's INT):

Yesterday, the only question Ramsey declined to answer concerned his turnover issues (two touchdowns and four interceptions) during preseason games. Ramsey was intercepted once Sunday by the Chicago Bears and, according to another offensive starter who requested anonymity, that interception -- on Ramsey's second pass of the game -- occurred when a receiver ran the wrong route, adding to Ramsey's frustration about the decision.

[illdefined]

so you think Brunell would have been able to duck that clothesline?

[MTK]

I'm not saying that was Ramsey's fault, but his first fumble was. Either way, in the end it's in the book as 2 fumbles.

Should we go back and look at all of Brunell's turnovers last year to figure out which ones really were his fault and which ones weren't?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm not saying that was Ramsey's fault, but his first fumble was. Either way, in the end it's in the book as 2 fumbles.

Should we go back and look at all of Brunell's turnovers last year to figure out which ones really were his fault and which ones weren't?

well do you care about "the book" or don't you? if so, i'd definitely encourage you to look at Brunell's "book" last season.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

well do you care about "the book" or don't you? if so, i'd definitely encourage you to look at Brunell's "book" last season.

I'm also looking at what we've seen so far this year from Brunell.

Something that I guess isn't relevant, last year should just trump everything that's happened so far this year?

[MTK]

So did Ramsey not have 7 starts last year?

Has that not been factored into the equation for Gibbs?

We're talking about two crappy QBs here, let's face it.

Why are some trying to hold Ramsey in such high regard?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So did Ramsey not have 7 starts last year?

Has that not been factored into the equation for Gibbs?

We're talking about two crappy QBs here, let's face it.

Why are some trying to hold Ramsey in such high regard?

yeah, and he won the same amount of games as Brunell did in 9. why is Brunell held in any regard? because of his distant past (in player terms)?

do you really think the differences in preseason account for betting TWO seasons on Brunell?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by illdefined

yeah, and he won the same amount of games as Brunell did in 9. why is Brunell held in any regard? because of his distant past (in player terms)?

do you really think the differences in preseason account for betting TWO seasons on Brunell?

We might want to add to that that 3 of Ramseys games came against 2 of the best teams in the NFL Philli, and Pitt, and a playoff team in the vik's.


As for this pre-seaon justification for Brunell, HOGWASH!

Why did Gibbs name Ramsey his starter at the end of the regular season last year? Because he clearly outplayed Brunell when the games counted, we also heard how Ramsey starated to come on the last couple of games, we heard that all off season.

So now we are to believe after the chicago game where the Gibbs apologists have conjured up the latest excuse that we only won by 2 points and scored no TD's because Gibbs wanted it that way, because he didn't want anyone to know how we are going to just overwhelm Parcells and the Boy's with a game plan against one of the greatest coaches to ever grace the field in the NFL, so to do that we leave a team in the game and we are not a big play away, we are a decent play away from losing by a field goal?

Then these same people want to judge the pre season and start Brunell, as if Gibbs opened up the offense in the pre-season only to shut it down in the regular season, we already are finding out that in a regular season game WR's are running the wrong routes, nobody believes that the same was taking place in the pre season, while everyone got used to each other as well as a new system?

Those who don't learn from their mistakes are prone to repeat them.

Brunell beats out Ramsey last season and starts 9 games and proceeds to play the position quite possibly worse than anyone in the history of the NFL for 9 games.

Ramsey comes in and faces the toughest part of our schedule and wins the starting job as per the coaches statement with his play.

Then the pre season hits and Brunell is so overwhelming with his PRE-SEASON performance Gibbs can't wait to make the switch, he proceeds to throw for 70 yds. and direct the team to 3 big time field goals in almost 3 quarters of play, now Gibbs has a gut feeling, yea I have a gut feeling as well, GUESS?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

we already are finding out that in a regular season game WR's are running the wrong routes, nobody believes that the same was taking place in the pre season, while everyone got used to each other as well as a new system?

How come whenever I, Matty, and others bring up players getting used to each other as well as a new system (and not only that, there was also an entirely new coaching staff) last season when Brunell was QB it's shot down "Oh Mark Brunell, all he does is dink and dunk, he sucks"

But then when it's Ramsey, suddenly it's all about WR's running wrong routes, players getting used to each other, new system. I don't know, I suppose if I was a genius like Ramsey allegedly is, I'd have the answer

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

How come whenever I, Matty, and others bring up players getting used to each other as well as a new system (and not only that, there was also an entirely new coaching staff) last season when Brunell was QB it's shot down "Oh Mark Brunell, all he does is dink and dunk, he sucks"

But then when it's Ramsey, suddenly it's all about WR's running wrong routes, players getting used to each other, new system. I don't know, I suppose if I was a genius like Ramsey allegedly is, I'd have the answer

Very simple Brunell had and I repeat 9 games [REGUALR SEASON GAMES], to gain continuity, with 11 weeks of practice as the #1 QB with his WR's and regressed as a QB, Ramsey has had 1 quarter, and was progressing within that very game before Gibbs gave him the hook.

Why is it that Ramsey isn't given the same opportunity this year as Brunell last year? It's not like Brunell is 24 years old, he is not the future, yet Ramsey is the one being treated like he's over the hill.

Anyone who wants to equate pre-seaon games with regular season games is just being foolish, no way you can simulate the game speed in the pre-season, especially under Gibbs, what did G. Williams do last off season? He put our defensive players in situations so that they would fail, yet how did that work out, we were far better in the regular season than the pre-season.

Where was Porits all pre-season? You don't think Gibbs was running plays to look at other players and evalute some the players around Ramsey, are you telling me Gibbs was coaching and creating continuity and calling the proper plays to accomplish that in the P-S, we already have people saying he's hiding our game plans in the regular season, your going to tell me he wasen't running a vanilla offense at BEST in the P-S? Your obviously entitled to your beliefs, that's more than fine by me, we are all different, but no way I am buying into it.

[onlydarksets]

Because some of us believe he has gotten a raw deal. That Ramsey was basically abused in Spurrier's "chuck-n-duck" system. That Gibbs told him he was the starter, but that Gibbs never meant it. That Gibbs has been stringing him along by saying "I believe in you", but then going out and buying a starter and drafting the future.

I don't think Ramsey is the be-all-end-all. I feel bad for the guy, though, which makes me want to stick up for him when people say Gibbs made the right decision.

Right or wrong, I think that is why some people are worked up about this.