Theory: Putting together a staff for the future

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Do you think Jeff Fisher will just let him go? Especially if the Redskins did screw over his best friend? The only way is if Williams goes back to the Titans with Schwartz becoming free to come here.

And as a lateral move for Schawartz, the Titans could demand compensation. Schwartz as our DC is not going to happen - he interviewed for the head coaching position.

[Schneed10]

I think these are all fair points, and for the record, I do think a staff of Fassel, Zorn, and some defensive coordinator to be named can be a good staff for the long haul.

But Matty, I really have a bone to pick with your argument, and it seems like a point made consistently by those supporting a decision passing over GW:

Dan Snyder's ego. The point basically says Snyder has an ego, and plans on being heavily involved, so we need a coach who will fit in with that. And given that Snyder isn't going to back off, you're right. But why exactly are you comfortable with Snyder being involved? Why is Snyder given a free pass? Why does his ego HAVE to get in the way?

Why can't Snyder be like Bob Kraft, or Jim Irsay, or the late Art Rooney, or the late Jack Kent Cooke? These men didn't/don't get involved in the football operations of the team. They scrutinize their coaches and GMs, but by no means are they involved in player-personnel decisions. But because Dan Snyder is involved, he needs someone he can work with. So we fire Marty after one season. He can't work with Gregg Williams. With Snyder's attitude, we significantly narrow the pool of coaching candidates he'll accept.

A good owner will hire the best people and leave it up to them. He won't micromanage and try to do the GM's work for him.

So the problem I have ultimately isn't with the coaching choice. The problem I have is Snyder can't put his big fat ego in check. He insists on getting in the way. And in my opinion, your points are even giving way to his ego.

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego? Maybe we need to parse the argument a little bit - do you feel Snyder should be involved in coaching and player personnel decisions? If so, why?

[dblanch66]

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego?
He owns the team. He can do what he wants.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego?
He owns the team. He can do what he wants.

Of course he can do what he wants. That's an obvious statement (and an asinine one at that). But that's not the question. The question is SHOULD he do what he wants?

I say no, because Snyder doesn't understand what it takes to put together a football team.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Of course he can do what he wants. That's an obvious statement (and an asinine one at that). But that's not the question. The question is SHOULD he do what he wants?

I say no, because Snyder doesn't understand what it takes to put together a football team.

Then the bigger question is, should he even own a sports franchise? I personally feel even the owner should be some sort of a football person in order to understand how the franchise works. Dan knows how to make money off of the Redskins through merchandise and ticket sales, but those things will eventually fall by the way side unless the franchise itself can make the money "on the field" by winning football games.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Then the bigger question is, should he even own a sports franchise? I personally feel even the owner should be some sort of a football person in order to understand how the franchise works. Dan knows how to make money off of the Redskins through merchandise and ticket sales, but those things will eventually fall by the way side unless the franchise itself can make the money "on the field" by winning football games.

I disagree that you need to be a football person to be an effective owner. Some of the best owners know little about football, but also know that the most effective leaders hire the best available talent to help the enterprise succeed. Bob Kraft and Jeffrey Lurie are two examples of that. I agree with the poster (Schneed?) who says that The Danny's ego limits the pool of candidates that will work for the Skins. If the ego of the owner is a factor in who is willing to come here, then we have serious issues at the top.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego?
He owns the team. He can do what he wants.

Maybe Dan Snyder is Al Davis's son? Dan (Al Davis Jr.) Snyder.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think these are all fair points, and for the record, I do think a staff of Fassel, Zorn, and some defensive coordinator to be named can be a good staff for the long haul.

But Matty, I really have a bone to pick with your argument, and it seems like a point made consistently by those supporting a decision passing over GW:

Dan Snyder's ego. The point basically says Snyder has an ego, and plans on being heavily involved, so we need a coach who will fit in with that. And given that Snyder isn't going to back off, you're right. But why exactly are you comfortable with Snyder being involved? Why is Snyder given a free pass? Why does his ego HAVE to get in the way?

Why can't Snyder be like Bob Kraft, or Jim Irsay, or the late Art Rooney, or the late Jack Kent Cooke? These men didn't/don't get involved in the football operations of the team. They scrutinize their coaches and GMs, but by no means are they involved in player-personnel decisions. But because Dan Snyder is involved, he needs someone he can work with. So we fire Marty after one season. He can't work with Gregg Williams. With Snyder's attitude, we significantly narrow the pool of coaching candidates he'll accept.

A good owner will hire the best people and leave it up to them. He won't micromanage and try to do the GM's work for him.

So the problem I have ultimately isn't with the coaching choice. The problem I have is Snyder can't put his big fat ego in check. He insists on getting in the way. And in my opinion, your points are even giving way to his ego.

Given that Snyder's ego isn't going anywhere, I agree with the staffing choices being made. But man, where's the outrage at the ego? Maybe we need to parse the argument a little bit - do you feel Snyder should be involved in coaching and player personnel decisions? If so, why?

Yep. And as I stated before, it is not so much an issue of hiring Williams or not hiring Williams, it is an issue about the process, the secrecy, the not keeping in contact with people on the staff, with letting them hear about hirings on the radio. I know it's just business for Danny, but it also effects peoples lives and they deserve some information. I also think he should have just hired Fassel rather than doing all this coy, cloak and dagger stuff, and now wanting to wait and interview Spagnolo.

I don't like the argument that this is all the "media's" doing either. The Washington Post is a serious newspaper and JLC is the beat writer for the team, he is going to report this thing out. We've seen how coaches have been left in the dark, not just the assistants but also Williams and now Fassel too. I also don't like the argument that no word has come out of Redskins Park so this is just a bunch of smoke. Silence is not always a blessing and some level of transparency isn't a bad thing. At least let the people effected know what the hell is happening. Plus, as Schneed rightly points out, the process itself and what it says about the way Snyder operates this organization. As Schneed also said, please don't say "it's his organization he can do what he wants". Of course he can, but we can't criticize? Give me a break.

I don't have a problem with hiring Zorn, or Fassel for that matter, but my problem is with the process. And don't say we don't know anything. We know enough to know that a lot of people were kept in the dark and a lot of people were not told were they stood. It might be "good business" but it's no way to treat people, it's no way to build trust, and it's no way I'd want my employer to act.

[skinsguy]

Also want to add that for future reference, if the new OC and DC performs above expectations, then there should be some type of incentive in their contract. The incentive can be that if they perform above expectations, then they cannot be fired throughout their contract's lifespan if there is a change at head coach. At least that would maintain some sense of continuity regardless who the head coach is. Of course, if the OC and DC are performing above expectations and the Redskins are winning above .500, then the head coach probably wouldn't be fired in the first place. :-/

[SKINSnCANES]

I agree with part of what Matty said, and agree with some of the responces. We had an ancient coaching staff that tried to relive the 80's, and even though some clothing styles show up time and time again, it didnt work for football. No matter what you think about what Joe Gibbs did, I think it was a short term marketing and quick fix plan.

Hiring Joe Gibbs is really no different than hiring Deion Sanders. He was old, not a long term solution, and really no different than any other Dan Snyder flashy hiring.

Im not saying Joe Gibbs did bad, im not startign any koolaid talk. He brought the moral up and gave credit back to the redskins. I think Gibbs did an amazing job with hiring Greg Williams, and more importantly you can raelly see that Gibbs and Williams spent time getting us young talent on D, all of our first round picks went to defense. I hope we keep williams because everything on defense is in place.

But on offense we have guys that have family probably begging them to retire...I mean all of Gibbs guys from the first run. Id like to keep Saunders but Zorn is a great hire to take over.

Our offense has been less than special since Gibbs got here, so hopefully Zorn can right that. I just hope we can keep what we have going on defense. If Williams at least we have a lot of pieces in place there. Zorn will have pieces in place on offense too, personal wise, hopefully hes schemes will perform most consistently.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Alright I'm going to toss my hat in the ring and toss out this theory as to what the plan is.

With Gibbs out of the picture, the nice and easy solution would have been to retain Williams as HC and leave the rest of the staff relatively intact.

Here's the hitch though, this staff was Joe Gibbs' staff. He put it together and let's face it, it wasn't exactly a staff built for the long term. I'm not sure of the average age of the staff, but it's got to be right at the top for one of the oldest, errr, I mean experienced staffs in the league. Again, not a staff built for the long term and not one that was picked by Williams.

So what I'm saying is, even if Williams took over, there was going to be some pretty significant changes. Saunders was probably outta here no matter what, and guys like Breaux and Burns weren't going to stick around with Gibbs out of the picture. You promote GW, you need a new DC, so that's another open spot on the staff. A few other coach's have contracts that are up, so who knows if they would have been retained as well.

There have always been rumblings that Williams and Snyder weren't exactly best buddies the past few years, and Gibbs was the buffer between the two. Just look at Williams' style. Tough guy, disciplinarian, on the arrogant side, sound familiar? Sounds a little like another coach that Snyder didn't play nice with... Marty Schottenheimer. In summary, Williams and Snyder probably weren't going to last in the long run. Eventually their egos would have clashed (probably sooner rather than later), and then where would that have left things? In search of another new HC and more turmoil? If you ask me, if Snyder has any doubt about working with Williams for the long run, the right move is to not even try to go there. Cut the head off this thing now and move on rather than trying to avoid the inevitable. He tried this once with Marty and we all know how that worked out. He doesn't want to go down that road again.

So ultimately I think the plan is to put together a staff for the long run. If that means taking a step backwards now in order to take steps ahead in the future, this is what has to be done. It certainly isn't pretty, but it seems like this is what needs to happen in order for Snyder to have a staff in place that he is comfortable with going forward with.

I have to say that I already like the Zorn hiring, and before you jump all over this notion that why did they hire an OC without having a HC first, let's just point out that Dallas did the same exact thing last year when they hired Garrett before Phillips. Zorn was reportedly high on the lists of all the potential HC's, so it was a no-brainer. I think we're going to see some more quality hirings too and in the end once the dust settles we just might like the looks of the new staff. Give it some more time, stay patient, and let's judge the entire package once everything is in place. Did anyone see the Zorn hiring coming a few weeks ago? I sure didn't. That tells me that someone is doing their homework in this search to turn up quality assistants and they're not just shooting for the big names. Look at some of the other names that have been floated out there. Schwartz, Meeks, Spagnola... not exactly the sexy big names that we always blame Snyder for going after.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but let's just keep things civil. There seems to be this notion that the moderators here don't want to hear any dissenting opinions. That's simply not true, what we're looking for is less emotional over the top stuff and more civil rational discussion.

Fire away.

Glad you took the time to put all that down. Those have pretty much been my sentiments since this thing started. I haven't quite understood all the panicking going on around here. When a team loses a head coach, inevitabely there are going to be some significant changes. That's just the nature of the beast. Let's see how this whole process unfolds. So far I like the Zorn/Blache combo...we'll have a head coach shortly after the superbowl and then it's on to thinking about next year.

[TheSmurfs22]

Good theory and good points. I too am excited about Zorn. Obviously we do not know what happens on a daily basis at Redskins Park but from the outside looking in I wish that Gregg Williams situation was handled better.

I really fear that if Snyder keeps micro-managing we are going to become an organization of instability year after year.

[goingdeep]

they are coach for bcowher so he will have more time with his family and have more free time

[The Gremlin]

um if he kept Gregg the defensive staff is intact and if he kept Saunders so was most of the offensive staff. Too bad the Skins will be rebuilding now but I like the Blache move. At least someone deserving for once gets a promotion.

[SFREDSKIN]

Olivadotti just signed an extension, thank god. Read the JLC insider.