Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[SBXVII]

Maybe this was posted if so I'm sorry but it's a nice read about PM.

Some clarity on Peyton Manning's injury - Hogs Haven

I didn't remember Montana having the same surgery. I do remember though something about worrying how fragile he might be taking a hit.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I agree that RGIII is a dice roll IF we trade up for him. If he falls to us at six, that's a very appropriate place for a highly regarded QB to go. Every year there's someone like that.

[skinsfaninok]

Call for Redskins to sign Manning

[CultBrennan59]

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post

[biffle]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post

I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.

[Mahons21]

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards

[Mahons21]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

Wow, didn't know they did that, no surprise about Manning though.

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards

Hah, I sure was, I think I quoted a post of yours specifically. Seems like a lot more valuable information to be found here, with much less filtering, so I figured I might as well just join up.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Football Outsiders' stats show the exact same trend line for Manning as Passer Rating- consistently moving downwarrd, with a bit fo an uptick in 09.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Or it could be that he has less he can afford to lose in physical skill, and less to gain in experience, which could make his decline steeper. In baseball, speed players lose their value less as they age than other players.

In fact, go look at the careers of the 10 QBs Pro Football Reference has as most similar to Manning. It's only the mobile ones- Young, Elway, Favre, Staubach- who didn't become shells of themselves after the age of 35. Montana, who was always reasonably, but not overly, athletic, was still good for a couple of years, but definitely off his peak year performances.
The other 5 on the list (Unitas, Marino, Anderson, Kelly, Fouts), who seem to all fit exactly the profile you laid out- not over athletic, not earth-shattering physical skills, but cerebral and prepared- all would have done well to retire by the age Manning is now.

[whistler]

Manning is clearly on the down side of his carreer. With a neck fusion he is affected for life with limited mobility in his neck area. He was never a drop back passer with Indy most of his time was spent in shotgun (he would step up to make calls but would settle into shotgun formation). If he were to come to the skins he would need the offense taylored to his liking.

The Shanahans currently have no audibles, no two minute offense, and micromanage all aspects of the offense, not sure if that was due to lack of confidence in Grossman/Beck or just their MO. However that would all have to be changed for Manning. Not sure if they are willing to do that for a player with a deficiancy, on the down side of his carreer that doesn't fit the system.

RGIII is young and is probably more coachable that most of the qbs that have been here since the Shannys came in. Also, RGII is more than capable of learning how the drop back in a pro style offense, if he hasn't already learned, all prospects have private coaching proir to the combine.

Barkley please don't go there, when was the last time a USC qb came out that actually had a quality carreer?

[CultBrennan59]

Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

And then a great article by Wise.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

And then a great article by Wise.

Sweet baby jesus, why does JLC hate on the Skins? Did Snyder steal his lunch money growing up or something?


Smoot, what's the lowdown on JLC? He get kicked in the balls by Redskins personnel or something?

Feinstein is also way off. He obviously hates Mike Shanahan for sure, and that's pretty classless of him to slam Sally that way.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Sweet baby jesus, why does JLC hate on the Skins? Did Snyder steal his lunch money growing up or something?


Smoot, what's the lowdown on JLC? He get kicked in the balls by Redskins personnel or something?

Feinstein is also way off. He obviously hates Mike Shanahan for sure, and that's pretty classless of him to slam Sally that way.

I don't like JLC either but I kinda see where he's coming from I posted something similar earlier.
As much as I want Peyton its hard for me to figure why he would want to come here as opposed to say South Beach or the Jets (if they're ready to move on from Sanchez).

Re:Sally
Me thinks there's a bit of professional jealously involved because of Jenkin's access to Mike Shanahan, its a relationship that Feinstein and other local media lack.

[SBXVII]

To me it's like Schneed said, get PM who will not effect our draft at all and will not be a very big CAP hit.

You still want to waist draft picks and move up for RGIII good for you guys.

Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.