A New Look Offense or the Same but Better?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You CAN'T wildcat Griffin. By definition the wildcat is a formation in which someone other than the normal QB takes the snap.

You can incorporate running plays or run/pass options for Griffin (I hope we are) but that is different from a wildcat.

lol pretty much ends the conversation right here

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Nothing has been confirmed. If they used Brandon Banks in the wildcat in 2010, why wouldn't they use Griffin in the wildcat now?

When?




This is NOT any wildcat formation.






This IS a wildcat formation.

[NYCskinfan82]

With RG3 & the speed on OF we have the options might become endless IMO.

[30gut]

The Redskins worked on more rollouts and option plays for Griffin. But that's not going to be the primary focus of the offense. He's not a young Michael Vick. Shanahan wants RG3 to be a young John Elway.

"It's good that we're implementing some of the option stuff because I have the ability to run it, but I don't want people to think I'm just an option quarterback," Griffin said

Robert Griffin III: I'm not just an option QB - NFL.com

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chris Russell

Clearly they have been evolving this offense from a running the QB perspective...[Chris Russell] don't like the notion of expecting (Griffin) to take a snap, make a read and immediately take off

06-13-12 Skins @ 1 (11:09)
Chirs Russell talking about Griffin running option
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_...c=427&f=585021


RG3: playbook turning into a second language
:24s mark vid of Griff practicing zone read QB keep

[REDSKINS4ever]

A standard NFL defense should be able to stop the old option play. If the Redskins incorporate this into their offense, they should use it sparingly. Griffin III is a very athletically gifted QB, but most of his runs should be made off schedule during pass plays and not designed for him to just keep the ball and outrun the defense.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

A standard NFL defense should be able to stop the old option play.

I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about when you say the "old option play" could you be more specific? Or do you mean option concepts as a whole (to include zone-read)?
Because surely, I'm not nor do I think anyone in this thread has suggested running the "old option play".

And when if comes to option concepts the Panthers embarrassed our defense and plenty of other defenses by using different option concepts last year.
Tebow, a QB that doesn't even throw the ball very well, was able to take a 1-4 team and amass a 7-4 record and a playoff win by using option concepts almost exclusively as the basis for their offense.
But, any play or concept can be "stopped" but not without leaving the defense vulnerable somewhere else e.g. if a defense commits to stopping the the zone-read QB keep and the zone-read RB keep then they leave themselves vulenrable against playaction passing:

You Tube

Option concepts are sound football concepts tried and true over a long period of time.
Its not a gimmick play, at its core option concepts that include the QB as a run threat create a numerical advantage over the defense.
The question is how much contact is a team willing to expose they're QB to and how much contact can the QB handle and how smart is the QB about protecting themself?

If the Redskins incorporate this into their offense, they should use it sparingly. Griffin III is a very athletically gifted QB, but most of his runs should be made off schedule during pass plays

If most of Griff's run come off schedule then imo an entire facet of the offense that his unique skillset provides will be ignored.

and not designed for him to just keep the ball and outrun the defense

I think this is a very generic and overly simplistic approach/opinion of how Griffin's running ability would be used as a threat to the defense.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about when you say the "old option play" could you be more specific? Or do you mean option concepts as a whole (to include zone-read)?
Because surely, I'm not nor do I think anyone in this thread has suggested running the "old option play".

And when if comes to option concepts the Panthers embarrassed our defense and plenty of other defenses by using different option concepts last year.
Tebow, a QB that doesn't even throw the ball very well, was able to take a 1-4 team and amass a 7-4 record and a playoff win by using option concepts almost exclusively as the basis for their offense.
But, any play or concept can be "stopped" but not without leaving the defense vulnerable somewhere else e.g. if a defense commits to stopping the the zone-read QB keep and the zone-read RB keep then they leave themselves vulenrable against playaction passing:

Tim Tebow game winning touchdown to Demaryius Thomas Denver Broncos vs Pittsburgh Steelers today - YouTube

Option concepts are sound football concepts tried and true over a long period of time.
Its not a gimmick play, at its core option concepts that include the QB as a run threat create a numerical advantage over the defense.
The question is how much contact is a team willing to expose they're QB to and how much contact can the QB handle and how smart is the QB about protecting themself?


If most of Griff's run come off schedule then imo an entire facet of the offense that his unique skillset provides will be ignored.

I think this is a very generic and overly simplistic approach/opinion of how Griffin's running ability would be used as a threat to the defense.

The term 'old option play' was used by old timers such as Pat Summerall and Lou Holtz. The wishbone offense or the option play is one of the oldest plays in the game of football today.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The term 'old option play' was used by old timers such as Pat Summerall and Lou Holtz. The wishbone offense or the option play is one of the oldest plays in the game of football today.

I'm asking you what you mean by 'old option play' because there is no singular 'option play'.

The option is a football concept that is applied in various formations and systems.
Those systems are termed "option" because the execution of the play is deteremined by the ballcarrier reading/keying* off a defender giving them the option* to either keep the ball or give the ball to another possible ball carrier. Usually the read/keyed defender is unblocked by design to give the offense a numerical advantage in blocking elsewhere.
*(hence the term: read option )

Also, the wishbone is another formation/system that can be option but doesn't have to be, their are plenty of teams that use wishbone formation and don't option.

So, I ask again, what are you refering to when you say option?
I've been quite specific when I refer to option throughout this thread and like I've mentioned already in my previous post evidence on how/why option concepts are not as easily defended as you seem to think.

Lets not speak in platitudes when we can have a real football X's and O's conversation and discuss in specifics.
The aim for most of my threads is to have an honest to goodness football discussion.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by 30gut

their are plenty of teams that use wishbone formation and don't option.

such as?

[saden1]

We can't possibly be worse with Rex riding the bench, even if we finish the season 2-14.

[los panda]

i'm not sure that packers formation was even wishbone. i don't know of any teams that use the wishbone and run the option. i don't know of any teams that run the wishbone. i'm not going to post a clip of theisman getting retired and say that the redskins run the flea flicker offense. i'm not going to reference a team that did it decades ago or a team that doesn't even turn up in a google search (arbutus golden eagles for an arbutus golden knights search).

what was redskins4ever's claim?

[30gut]

Great article by Bucky Brooks that breaks down the QB keeper and the zone-read in the NFL by the Broncos:

Zone-read option leads to big results for Tebow, Broncos - NFL.com

In a league driven by the performance of the quarterback, the most successful coaches are adaptable and willing to cater their offensive systems to fit the skill set of the signal caller.

In Denver, John Fox and his coaching staff are undergoing a radical offensive makeover to maximize the talents of Tim Tebow. Part of the transformation includes featuring the zone-read option play that Tebow made famous at the University of Florida while winning two national championships and a Heisman Trophy.

Other teams (like the Panthers with Cam Newton and the Bills with Brad Smith) have certainly sprinkled some elements of the formation into their playbooks. However, no team has featured the play as prominently as the Broncos did in their 38-24 win over the Raiders.

To the surprise of traditionalists who have often dismissed the prospects of the zone-read succeeding in the league, the concept not only worked but also generated the kind of production that will lead others to explore the possibility of adding it to their respective playbooks.

Let's take a closer look at three ways the Broncos' zone-read produced big results against the Raiders:

Quarterback keeper

Tim Tebow 32 Yard Run (11/6/11) - YouTube
The most dangerous element of the zone-read is the quarterback keeper. A quarterback with explosive running skills can wreak havoc on the edges, and the play often puts him in isolated situations with defenders in space. If he is able to elude the first defender, he often has a lot of running room on the outside and it typically leads to huge gains.

Against Oakland, the Broncos were able to establish the threat of Tebow on the corner early in the game. On a play in the first quarter (right), the Broncos aligned in "Trips" -- three receivers on the right and the tight end on the backside of the shotgun formation. Tebow took the snap and read Jarvis Moss' (No. 94) while sticking the ball in McGahee's belly. When Moss took a flat angle to pursue the runner, Tebow pulled the ball out and raced around the corner for a 32-yard gain.

This was a pivotal play for the Broncos' offense because it forced the Raiders to pay close attention to the quarterback, which prevented defenders from aggressively pursuing runners on the zone run.

Inside zone

The inside zone is the complementary run to the quarterback keeper. The running back will cross the face of the quarterback while taking a direct path to the inside foot of the opposite offensive guard. His approach to the line of scrimmage is important because it forces linebackers to flow aggressively to the frontside, which creates better blocking angles for the offensive line. The front five is simply asked to latch onto a defender in their assigned area and push down the line of scrimmage. The runner reads the initial flow of the defense and bursts through the first available hole once he hits his landmark. This eliminates the chances of a negative run and also leads to the possibility of a big gain if one or two defenders fail to stay in their assigned gaps.

In looking at McGahee's 60-yard run at the end of the third quarter (right), the lack of gap discipline led to the big play. The Broncos aligned in an unbalanced "Trips" formation. McGahee was set to the right of the shotgun formation beside Tebow. At the snap, McGahee took a path to the inside foot of the left guard with Tebow riding the handoff while reading Kamerion Wimbley (No. 96) on the right. Wimbley stayed home, which prompted the quarteback to hand the ball off before carrying out his fake. The extended action of Tebow caused Darryl Blackstock (No. 56) to hesitate, leaving a huge hole for McGahee to sprint through on the way to a score.

Zone-read cutback

When both elements of the zone-read are working effectively, offensive coordinators will routinely call a designed cut back to take advantage of aggressive linebackers. The play design and execution are the same, but the path of the running back is changed to give him the opportunity to get to the backside quicker. Rather than aim for the inside foot of the opposite guard, he will take a downhill angle in the direction of the center to allow him to cut back immediately at the line of scrimmage.

In looking at McGahee's game-clinching 24-yard touchdown run (right), it was the cutback element that led to the big run. The Broncos aligned in a "Trey" formation with McGahee set to the left. He stepped in the direction of the center while Tebow continued to read Aaron Curry (No. 51) on the left. When Curry flew up the field to chase the quarterback, Tebow slipped the ball to McGahee, who immediately bends it back to the left to take advantage of an overaggressive Blackstock flying to the frontside to stop the inside zone. With the linebacker out of position, McGahee skated into the end zone untouched for his second score of the day.

Follow Bucky Brooks on Twitter @BuckyBrooks

[Lotus]

^ That Brooks article made me salivate. Replace Tebow/McGahee with Griffin/Helu and things look potentially devastating.

Originally Posted by 30gut

To your last point, having a zone-read based series of plays could actual help Griffin read the defensive coverages because those plays could dictate/force defenses to play certain known coverages.

That is an intelligent insight.

I like your idea of the counter/veer. I also like the idea of a zone-read triple option: (1) running back, (2) keeper, or (3) pass to wideout on QB's side or crossing route. We could run such a zone-read play three times and it could be different each time. Or we could low-high the QB's side with a TE short and a wideout deep, putting intense confusing pressure on the LB and CB, as part of the triple option.

If it were me, I would also be liberal in adding pure play action plays that looked like run option plays but were passes from the get-go. This would take advantage of Griffin's arm while also protecting him from injury (the specter of an injury makes me like the threat of a run by #10 perhaps more than an actual run, as long as the threat is established).

[30gut]

Playbook: Panthers 'counter' option
By Matt Bowen | National Football Post – Wed, 27 Jun, 2012 5:30 AM EDT

Playbook: Panthers 'counter' option | National Football Post

Option football does exist in the NFL when you have the personnel at the QB position to run the Read Option, Speed Option and the “Counter” Option. Today, I want to take a look back at the Saints-Panthers matchup from the 2011 season and breakdown Carolina’s option scheme with Cam Newton at QB...