Ongoing CBA discussions

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Do any of you people actual pay attention to facts or do you chose a side and just stick your head in the sand in hopes to ignore any of the real facts going on? It bewilders me that people are still spouting off rhetoric when the facts are plain and simple.

Look in the mirror and repeat....

Yeah, because those asshats representing the NFL corporation are any better?

Actually, the two point men are Roger Goodell and D. Smith. Here's Goodell's NFL background:

Goodell's career in the NFL began in 1982 as an administrative intern in the league office in New York under then-Commissioner Pete Rozelle – a position secured through an extensive letter-writing campaign to the league office and each of its then 28 teams. In 1983, he joined the New York Jets as an intern, but returned to the league office in 1984 as an assistant in the public relations department.[12]
In 1987, Goodell was appointed assistant to the president of the American Football Conference (Lamar Hunt), and under the tutelage of Commissioner Paul Tagliabue filled a variety of football and business operations roles, culminating with his appointment as the NFL's Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer in December 2001.
As the NFL's COO, Goodell took responsibility for the league's football operations and officiating, as well as supervised league business functions. He headed NFL Ventures, which oversees the league's business units, including media properties, marketing and sales, stadium development and strategic planning.
Goodell was heavily involved in the negotiation of the league's current collective bargaining agreement. He had worked extensively with Tagliabue since the latter became commissioner in 1989.[3] He has played an extensive role in league expansion, realignment, and stadium development, including the launch of the NFL Network and securing new television agreements as well as the latest collective bargaining agreement with the National Football League Players Association.

Here's Smith's NFL (also labor negotiation background): ......

So in the sense of experience in the situation at hand who's the asshat?

To me, many of the issues with players stem from pure jealousy on the amounts they make and the ability to have leverage in their work place. Get over it, we all would like that ability but the fact is we are expendable, they are not.

To me, people who make statements like this have no valid, substantive argument and are reduced to speculation and rhetoric. If my issue with the players stemmed from jealousy of the amount of money they make and leverage, I'd be a lot more jealous of the billionaire who holds the keys to the kingdom than the well-paid millionaire whose career spans an average of 3-4 years.

Newsflash: The OWNERS opted out of the CBA, NOT the players. Also, the players walked away with the owners showing no signs of giving them the info they wanted. They had no option. Did you not read this thread? If you had, you'd notice where I posted the federal mediator said this.

The owners were out-leveraged into a bad deal in 2006 and are working to correct that. They have agreed to provide detailed financial info to the NFLPA, but not a line-by-line accounting for the last ten years for each team. No way in hell as an NFL owner would I ever agree to that....and the players know this as well. Smith's strategy was to take this to court all along. The NFLPA had an option...how about bargain in good faith and realize there will be some level of "give" in a negotiation. Everything I've heard (directly from NFL player reps) is that they are unwilling to give any salary relief to the owners unless they get full and open disclosure...which again they know the owners won't give.

So why stay at the table when it's obvious nothing was going to get done. Why keep prolonging something you know the sides aren't going to agree. The NFLPA isn't going to take a 1 billion in salary cut without seeing books. End of Story. You don't negotiated business deals on "trust me". You base them on numbers and facts. Both of which the NFL does not want to disclose.

see above and my last post. The latest NFL offer had a gap of approx. $ 185M to bridge with the players, not $ 1B. The NFLPA "took their ball and went home" because they seek leverage in the courts.

I can't repeat this enough. 1696 players are splitting 4 billion and 32 owners are splitting 5 billion. Are you seriously still siding with the owners?...lol Mind boggling. Yeah, sure looks like it's in favor of NFLPA. /sarcasm off

Get your number rights, under the current CBA the owners are only getting in the area of 42% of the NFL "pie" yet they take all the financial risk.

It may seem like a "fair deal" to average people that have no concept of this money or leverage. The reality of it is when the owners ask them to take a billion dollar cut, you better have numbers to back it up.

It seems like a "fair deal" to anyone with an ounce of common sense who isn't blindly in the players corner.

It's funny you complain about the NFLPA trying to gain leverage, but you totally ignored the leverage the NFL owners have been trying to get since 2006.
1) Tried to get exempt from rules governing monopolies via Supreme Court (they failed)
2) Signed TV contract enabling them to get paid even during lock out. (they failed)
So you have no problem with them getting leverage long before they even opted out of the CBA, but have issue with NFLPA gaining leverage as it's LAST recourse? Hey, don't let those things called facts get in your way though.

#2 is a business deal with the networks. What's wrong with a business negotiating a deal that is in their interest. #1 is trying to keep this negotiation out of the courts' hands and in the realm of a negotiation, not doing business under a court order. My problem is the NFLPA planning as their strategy to settle this in the courts rather than through negotiation.

This is where most of the ignorance comes into play when discussing this topic. I'm sorry, but do you understand that the NFL has a product/service? That product/service ARE the players. They aren't normal employees. Normal employees would be the trainers, the team secretary and PR guy, and even the coaches. Why? Because you can replace them easily without the talent level dropping off, which is the whole reason the NFL exists. The talent level. Grasp that concept and then you'll be able understand the situation in it's entirety. We don't watch the games to see Fed Ex field. We don't watch the games to see the hot dog vendor. We don't watch the games to see David Donovan give legal representation. We don't watch the games to see Mike Shannahan call time outs. We watch the game because of the PLAYERS. The only reason the NFL exists.

Here's where condescention boomerangs and smacks back in the face. The NFL is far more than the current members of the NFLPA, it's more than what's on the field this upcoming season. The current players can be replaced and the talent level would be back to where it is today within 3-4 years. Would it take a couple more years to find the next Peyton Manning or Adrian Peterson, possibly. But the NFL will go on, it's fans will still be there and they come to watch their team not specific players. Especially in the era of Free Agency folks are used to players switching teams. Don't overestimate the value of this current crop of players....and don't think there won't be those who cross the picket line. There were many before who did.

Are the owners going to give back some of their salaries to reduce the costs for fans? Nope. Why would you expect them to do the same for owners.

Because if the players truly want to be "partners" then they should be prepared to share in the risk.

Is Dan Snyder going to lower ticket costs when his team does shitty? Nope. Is he going to raise them if we make the playoffs? Yep. Do you think they care? Nope.

Irrelevant to this discussion.

Show me where a team is having difficulties making stadium payments. I will give you season tickets in club level for life if you can prove this.

As the NFLPA says, "show me". When you show your ability to give me season tickets in club level for life, I'll spend some time researching this.

Also, you do realize the owners strong arm the community into providing them with tax cuts and funding their new stadiums at the expense of the tax payers. It's either that or they threaten to leave.

Again, irrelevant to this discussion. But if the community doesn't feel having the team is worth the tax cuts then don't give themn what they want. No court steps in to decide if a team stays or goes in a particular city.

If you had the slightest idea or any facts to back up anything you said, then you might have a point but it's obvious you don't like D. Smith for whatever reason and have chosen the side of the owners. I also see a lot of resentment in average joes over the players. The sheer jealousy of them having leverage (and salaries) in a way they could never dream of makes the average fan foam at the mouth. The NFL exists soley because of the service those players provide. They are the product. You on the other hand, had no leverage or bargaining chip to hold your employers accountable. You act is if they are asking for more. That isn't the case. They want the system to remain the same, it's the owners who are asking for me. I suggest you recognize that main fact.

Actually it's you who appears to be lacking in understanding of the situation and facts and appear to be blindly siding with the players over the "greedy owners". I would suggest you ask yourself why an owner of a business (even the NFL) would shoulder all the expenses, take all the risks, and give over 58% of the total revenue to the employees.