Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin

[Beemnseven]

Call me crazy, but I think Norv will do just fine. He had really bad teams in Washington. Players make all the difference.

I think people forget just how bad a group of players he was dealt from '94-'98.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Call me crazy, but I think Norv will do just fine. He had really bad teams in Washington. Players make all the difference.

I think people forget just how bad a group of players he was dealt from '94-'98.

You'll see San Diego in the playoffs next year. They may not be 14-2, but they'll be fine.

It's funny how good players make coaches look good and vice versa.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Call me crazy, but I think Norv will do just fine. He had really bad teams in Washington. Players make all the difference.

I think people forget just how bad a group of players he was dealt from '94-'98.

Norv's a good playcaller, and that team has tons of talent on the offensive end. They will be up there in points next year for sure.

They will open up at number 1 in my personal power rankings for next year.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Norv's a good playcaller, and that team has tons of talent on the offensive end. They will be up there in points next year for sure.

They will open up at number 1 in my personal power rankings for next year.

What the hell's a Power Ranking?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Call me crazy, but I think Norv will do just fine. He had really bad teams in Washington. Players make all the difference.

I think people forget just how bad a group of players he was dealt from '94-'98.

Didn't he have a hand in the drafting of studs like Shuler, Westbrook and Andre Johnson?

He also had disasters such as Westbrook punching out Davis and issues with Albert Connell go down on his watch.

Let's not absolve him all of blame now, he stinks as a head coach and he'll prove it for the 3rd time in San Diego.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Didn't he have a hand in the drafting of studs like Shuler, Westbrook and Andre Johnson?

He also had disasters such as Westbrook punching out Davis and issues with Albert Connell go down on his watch.

Let's not absolve him all of blame now, he stinks as a head coach and he'll prove it for the 3rd time in San Diego.

Was it he or Charlie Casserly? Either way, Shuler and Westbrook were touted by many as the real deal. Just like Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, all the "experts" said it was 1 and 1a with those two. Half of Westbrook's problems were due to his extensive history and knack for injuries.

Connell was a head case -- nothing more. You want to blame Norv for his mental capacity too? Connell was kicked off the team. What else did you want? Norv is supposed to be a psycho-therapist as well as his other responsibilities as a head coach/O-coordinator?

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

I think this assessment is accurate.

Somebody had to follow Gibbs I.

Turner's Raiders offenses look like the "greatest show on grass slightly below sea level" compared to the one they trotted out this year (His QB was every bit as bad as the bozos they have now). The guy knows his offense. If Gannon didn't get hurt in 04, that may have been a playoff team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Was it he or Charlie Casserly? Either way, Shuler and Westbrook were touted by many as the real deal. Just like Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning, all the "experts" said it was 1 and 1a with those two. Half of Westbrook's problems were due to his extensive history and knack for injuries.

Connell was a head case -- nothing more. You want to blame Norv for his mental capacity too? Connell was kicked off the team. What else did you want? Norv is supposed to be a psycho-therapist as well as his other responsibilities as a head coach/O-coordinator?

Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle.

Yeah it only took 6 years for that pendulum to swing.

Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here:

SportingNews.com Blogs

Super Bowl XXVIII would be the final game for both Dallas head coach Jimmy Johnson and Turner, as Johnson was ran off by owner Jerry Jones. Redskins GM Charley Casserly would convince Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke to hire Norv Turner to replace Ritchie Pettibone, who was fired after one 4-12 season.

In the 1994 NFL Draft, Washington had the #3 pick. Reports started coming out that the ‘Skins was wanting to draft a quarterback. Tennessee QB Heath Shuler was projected as the top QB prospect, and rumors began coming out that Turner was interested in drafting him. However, reports began coming out of the NFL Scouting Combine that Shuler had bombed on the Wonderlic test, lowering his draft stock. Despite this, Turner was still interested in Shuler. Adding to that, Casserly had his eye on Fresno State QB Trent Dilfer. On draft day Casserly let Turner make the call, and Turner chose Shuler over Dilfer. The Redskins would also draft another quarterback in the 7th round, Gus Frerotte from Tulsa. The difference in opinion between Casserly and Turner would be a constant theme during Turner’s tenure in Washington.

In Turner’s first season, 3 QBs started for the ‘Skins. Turner alternated between Frerotte and Shuler and later in the season Frerotte, subbing for and injured Shuler, beat the Colts in Week 8, winning the starting job for the rest of the season. That first season, the Redskins would finish 3-13.

In 1995 Shuler started the season, but an injury in the Redskins’ season opening win against Arizona would put Frerotte back into the game. Washington finished the season at 6-10, highlighted by a regular season sweep of the eventual Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys, one with Shuler as the starter.

In 1996 Casserly traded the #6 draft pick to St. Louis for DL Sean Gilbert. Frerotte was named the starter by Turner, with Shuler benched for the whole season. Washington began the season winning 7 of their first 8 games. However they would become inconsistent during the rest of the season, and finish at 9-7. Frerotte, RB Terry Allen both had big seasons, earning Pro Bowl trips. Shuler was released at the end of the season, and publicly criticized the Redskins organization, whom he claimed never supported him.

Expectations were high in 1997; however Turner’s Redskins was only able to put together consecutive wins once, and with a 7-7 tie with the New York Giants, finished the season at 8-7-1.

Casserly wheeled and dealed for defensive help during the 1998 off season, trading a first round draft pick for Cincinnati defensive tackle Dan Wilkinson, and signed free agent defensive tackle Dana Stubblefield. However the new personnel didn’t show to really improve the defense overall, and the defense ranked 28th in points allowed, and the Redskins finished at 6-10.

In 1999, Casserly pulled out all of the stops. Casserly traded the #11 pick to Minnesota for QB Brad Johnson. The Redskins also took advantage of Saints’ head coach Mike Ditka’s man crush of Ricky Williams, trading the #5 pick for all of the Saints’ 1999 picks, plus a first and a third round pick in 2000. One of these picks yielded Georgia CB and all-around threat Champ Bailey. It was clear that the team that had the best off season in 1999 was the 'Skins.

Behind the scenes, however, Turner and Casserly didn’t play well together. In 1995, Turner wanted to draft WR Michael Westbrook. Casserly wanted Joey Galloway. Much like the Heath Shuler bust, Turner got his way, and Westbrook proved to be a bust and a thug. The conflict would come to a head very soon.

In May, billionaire Daniel Snyder purchased the team from the late Jack Kent Cooke’s family. Snyder had wanted to immediately fire Turner, but Casserly talked him out of it. Instead, Snyder fired Casserly, and gave Turner an ultimatum: make the playoffs, or else.

The 1999 Redskins opened the season with a wild 41-35 OT loss to Dallas. They would go on to win the next 4 games, until they met up with Dallas again, and lost – again. After the game, Snyder reportedly took Turner into a room in Texas Stadium and gave him a major tongue lashing. The ‘Skins, however, would take advantage of a weak NFC East, winning the division with a 10-6 record. Stephen Davis had a breakout season, and the big-ego duo of Albert Connell-Michael Westbrook WR combination was potent.

In the Wild Card Game, the Redskins defeated the Detroit Lions 27-13 to set up a Divisional Playoff matchup with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Trailing 13-14 late, punter and placeholder Matt Turk botched the hold for a potential game-winning field goal, ending Washington’s season.

In 2000, with Snyder acting as general manager, the Redskins would go crazy in the free agent market, signing Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and Jeff George, plus using a first round draft pick on LB LaVar Arrington. The reloaded Redskins were being hyped to be a Super Bowl contender.

On the field, however, the Redskins were inconsistent. At the half way point of the season, the Redskins were 6-2. However, Brad Johnson went down, and the Redskins went into a slump, losing going 1-5. Standing at 7-6 and still with a shot at the Wild Card, Snyder fires Turner, replacing him with Terry Robiskie. The ‘Skins would only win one more game to finish the season 8-8.

Much of the reason Turner stayed in Washington was not because of his ability as coach, but due to the uncertain future direction of the franchise following Jack Kent Cooke's death in 1997. Turner’s years in Washington can be summarized by draft busts, many made by Turner, as well as teams that were generally underachievers. Adding to that, Turner had problems dealing with attitude problems Albert Connell and Michael Westbrook, not a good omen for someone who will have to deal with T.O.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yeah it only took 6 years for that pendulum to swing.

Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here

What do you mean in "only took 6 years for the pendulum to swing" ??

The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over.

Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed.

Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had.

Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

What do you mean in "only took 6 years for the pendulum to swing" ??

The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over.

Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed.

Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had.

Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's.

I just think you're cutting him way too much slack is all. He's a nice guy and a good offensive coordinator. That doesn't change the fact he's proven to be a sub-par head coach in this league.

If anything we gave him too many chances here, he should have been canned after that monumental collapse in '96.