Gotta luv ref's

[Fan4Life]

Tuesday, November 15, 2005; Page E01



After reviewing replays of several controversial calls from Sunday's 36-35 loss to Tampa Bay, Washington Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday that officials erred in several instances, including on the Buccaneers' game-winning, two-point conversion in the final minute of play. Gibbs said he planned to submit video from the play that indicates Tampa Bay fullback Mike Alstott had not crossed the goal line, as well as several other clips, to NFL officials.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Ya can't count on a part-timer.

I hate the NFL's System for Officiating

peace

[Hog1]

I normally don't put much stock in this type of thing, but I must say, there were numerous calls that went against us that were game killers. Listening to the local sports shows in SW Florida yesterday, much of the talk, the officiating in the Skins, TB game. Even though these guys are HUGE TB fans, even THEY said Alstot did NOT make the end zone-CLEARLY. They also pointed out that the touchdown signal was not given until the ref crawled through the pile indicating they did not know either. Unfortunately (for us), that is not accurate. The other obvious biggie was the alleged "force out" on the sidelines of whatever TB reciever. BAD DEAL

[skins052bgr8]

The Refs are getting caught up in the emotion of the game and making some questionable calls many times like the end in favor of the home team or plays that are momentum changing with some questionable penalties. The NFL is sending out all kinds of fines for players doing wrong whether it be BS uniform violations, coaches questining those calls. When are they going to start fining these refs for clear missed calls after replay such as Alstot. They need to take these down by contact rulings and shove outs away from the refs and let instant replay take care of it. Many times these our clearly the wrong calls, but due to the ref making the call on the field whatever motivation or dictating factor they prevent the right call from being made at replay. Why would a ref even call a down by contact or a shove out just give what you think catch or blow the whistle after he clearly hits the ground and the ball is not flopping around.

[Fan4Life]

Yea that so called push out call? what a crock. his foot was outta bounds when he caught the ball and the skin defender barely had a hand on him. i know in nascar they have taken a win away for an infraction or a mistake made by the high ups. has that ever happened in the history of the nfl? I doubt if it has, just curious.

[MTK]

It's funny because they rarely make that push out call, and you usually see it when a WR is in the air and gets shoved. It was a pretty lame call, worse than the Alstott one IMO, at least that one was close, the push out was just a completely blown call.

[LadyT]

There are bad calls in almost every game and against both teams. Luckily, most times they don't decide the game's outcome. In this game, they did and, unfortunately, we have only ourselves to blame. We had 36 points on the board and should never have been in the position where a 2-point coversion could cost us the game.

The players know that bad calls will happen. Knowing that, they also know that allowing the opponent to score so many points on you puts you in the position where a bad call can mean everything.

I didn't like many of the calls, but I refuse to blame the refs for what happened on Sunday. You should win 100% of the games where you put up 36 points.

[HTTR]

Originally Posted by LadyT

You should win 100% of the games where you put up 36 points.

Unfortunately, we only scored 35.

How bad does a call have to be before you throw a fit? I have no problem with refs making the best calls they can in the heat of the action. But the whole purpose of stopping games to review slow motion camera angles is to IMPROVE the calls that were made on the field (upheld or not). If you have solid evidence that (1) a player was not pushed out, and (2) a ball carrier's elbow came down short of the goal line, HAVE THE COURAGE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CALL (the rule about shove-outs not being reviewable is stupid).

Tampa Bay fans should be philosophical today about "we shouldn't have let the game come down to one call by the refs."

[Hog1]

I guess if there is something positive about it. The officiating staff working a Skins game KNOWS,JOE will call them on that lame stuff. You know they DON'T like being held up in that knd of light. Mybe, they will be reluctant to make questionable calls in the future on us.

[MTK]

It's true that you can't blame the refs entirely, but you can't say the bad calls weren't a factor.

[#56fanatic]

although there were a couple of really bad calls, I am in belief that when you put up 35 points against a #1 defense, and a QB making his 3rd NFL start, the game should not have even been close. Even though we gave up 3 or 4 turnovers, we still should have won by two TDs. I am putting blame on our defensive scheme. When we couldn't get pressure early in the game, and were getting beat down field time and time, we have to make adjustments to the play calling. especially at the end of the game. We are putting our 2nd string safety and rookie CB on islands out there and they were getting beat. GW has to swallow some of that ego( I can put anyone in here and win with MY scheme). We saw how it worked with Holdman and LaVar, and it showed up again with Taylor being out. Griffin being out also hurt our pass rush, and trying to make up for that by sending our best cover corner I think is not very smart. I know the guy is in the NFL and is a very good D coach, but I just think sometimes he needs to scale back some of the aggresive playcalling when its obviously not working. Late in the game, how can you risk a receiver getting deeper than your safeties, thats just unacceptable defense.

[djnemo65]

My question is this: why have a replay system if the refs are just gonna call whatever the hell they want regardless of the tape. It seems like they are so beholden to this "irrefutable visual proof" standard that a call can't be close for them to reverse it. If there is even the slightest tinge of doubt they will defer to the ruling on the field. I mean, yeah the Alstott play was really really close - but he didn't get in! That's what the tape shows. But because I guess its not a slamdunk they don't reverse it. You see this in college too. I have been a strong proponent of replay in both the pros and college, but if refs are going to selectively interpret what they see on the tape, maybe we need to reconsider the entire system.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

although there were a couple of really bad calls, I am in belief that when you put up 35 points against a #1 defense, and a QB making his 3rd NFL start, the game should not have even been close. Even though we gave up 3 or 4 turnovers, we still should have won by two TDs. I am putting blame on our defensive scheme. When we couldn't get pressure early in the game, and were getting beat down field time and time, we have to make adjustments to the play calling. especially at the end of the game. We are putting our 2nd string safety and rookie CB on islands out there and they were getting beat. GW has to swallow some of that ego( I can put anyone in here and win with MY scheme). We saw how it worked with Holdman and LaVar, and it showed up again with Taylor being out. Griffin being out also hurt our pass rush, and trying to make up for that by sending our best cover corner I think is not very smart. I know the guy is in the NFL and is a very good D coach, but I just think sometimes he needs to scale back some of the aggresive playcalling when its obviously not working. Late in the game, how can you risk a receiver getting deeper than your safeties, thats just unacceptable defense.

See, I look at this situation a little bit different. Everything you say is right, it shouldn't have been close. But in today's NFL the other team's gonna find a way to make it close more often than not. Give TB some credit for making great plays down the stretch. But let's give our team some credit too.

I look at this way: two good playoff caliber teams battling for a poststeason slot went all the way down to the wire and the Redskins won, but the refs intervened and gave the game to the hometeam. It was close, but we won.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

See, I look at this situation a little bit different. Everything you say is right, it shouldn't have been close. But in today's NFL the other team's gonna find a way to make it close more often than not. Give TB some credit for making great plays down the stretch. But let's give our team some credit too.

I look at this way: two good playoff caliber teams battling for a poststeason slot went all the way down to the wire and the Redskins won, but the refs intervened and gave the game to the hometeam. It was close, but we won.

This, unfortunately, wont show up in the win / loss column. Yes, they are both good teams, but for the Redskins to be mentioned in the same breath with playoff contenders, we need to be able to win those games, hands down. I guess I am just sick of going on about the Alstott play, and want to try and move on to the Raiders. No matter how much bitching we do the play is not going to be changed. You also have to remember, these refs are judged based on how many calls are overturned from whats called on the field. They are picked for playoff games, and even superbowls with this as one of the desiding factors. At the end of the year it shows a certain percentage of calls overturned on their crews watch and by overturning calls it shows that they initially got the call wrong. I believe thats why this "irrefutable evidence" thing is coming into play more and more through the season. The refs that are selected for playoffs and superbowls get a nice little paycheck for those games.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It's true that you can't blame the refs entirely, but you can't say the bad calls weren't a factor.

Exactly Matty. The calls were a factor in the game and were a main factor in deciding the game. However, the Bucs had a starter who was 1-3 for his career as a starter going up against what was supposed to be a top defense. They moved the ball almost at will against the #1 D in the league and found a way to lose because they left the door open and dug a hole early. If not for the turnovers in the first half this game doesn't come down to a 2 point conversion play. If not for poor defense we probably blow Tampa out. This is a game that, on paper, the Skins should have dominated and they let it come down to the wire. They left the door open and the Bucs took advantage, something the Skins didn't do until the second half. This game should have never been this close and to blame the refs 100% would be an act of cowardice.