Republicans rally against 'war on religious freedom'

[RedskinRat]

Republicans rally against 'war on religious freedom'

JANESVILLE, Wisconsin — Life has gone from bad to worse since Donna Sturdivant's husband was laid off four years ago and now she feels that the thing which brings her the most comfort -- her faith -- is under threat.
"We're starting to see our religious freedom taken away. Our Christian faith is being stepped on. Like kids in the schools -- they can't talk about God," Sturdivant, 60, told AFP. "There's something wrong in America."
Republicans like Sturdivant are rallying against what they see as an insidious attack on Christians by Democrats in government, activist judges in the courts and secular liberals bent on eroding the country's moral values.

Well, WTF is THAT all about? I'm a secular Independent and I'm not trying to erode anyone's morals unless she's hot.

But seriously, the statement that made me laugh the most was this gem:

"Christians are persecuted in many other countries and I think this is the next one," said Dean.


Dude, you aren't being persecuted at all. You want persecution, look at the ME and how they treat the 'wrong' faiths.


Guaranteed this jackass wouldn't be fighting for moslems to have the same level of exposure.


Still:


Such fears come as the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has reached an all-time high, noted Geoffrey Layman, a political science professor at the University of Notre Dame.
"There is an anxiety about the status of religious life and more things to be outraged about as we become a more secular society," he said.
"On the other hand it's just good strategic politics to play up the idea of a threat."
The problem with stoking those fears, however, is that it makes it very difficult to reach a compromise, said Rogers Smith, a political science professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
Religious conservatives consider their opponents to be "sinful" while liberals think their opponents as "not just wrong but crazy," he said.


At least the Democrats have research in their favoras science is getting close to proving religion to be an addictive or flaw of the mind.

[NC_Skins]

They want to be able to push their religion on you, but they don't want you keeping their religion out of your life.


I've stated many times over that people don't give two shits about their fellow human rights unless it somehow affects them. THEN, they care.


People's civil rights being taken away?.....Who cares, they aren't my freedoms.
People in Africa slaughtered in mass genocide......Don't care. It's not my family.

[RedskinRat]

Thanks for the additional thoughts NC Skins.

I also found this, thought it worth a few lines although I don't agree with all of it, it adds an interesting perspective:

The Politics of Belief

The Politics of Belief | Disinformation

A tribal shaman was once interviewed by a skeptical anthropologist and asked whether or not he actually believed in the truths behind the spiritual medicine he practiced. The shaman’s reply was surprisingly candid, for he admitted that his technique was completely fraudulent, and yet he still defended it for the simple reason that it often seemed to heal the patients. This brief exchange cuts to the core of the issue of why some people are religious and others are not. It all boils down to two simple questions – “Is it true?” and “Is it good?”

An atheist is someone who answers “no” to the first question, and usually (but not always), “no” to the second question as well. As such, there are a variety of tactics that atheists will employ in promoting arguments against religion. Charles Darwin, for example, was supposed to have been nudged permanently over the cusp into disbelief after having studied the behavior of a certain species of parasitic wasp. This particular wasp injects its eggs directly into the body cavity of living caterpillars so that after hatching, its larvae are provided with a steady food supply as they devour their unfortunate hosts alive from the inside out. Having seen this, Darwin could simply no longer permit himself to believe that a kind and loving Creator would cause or allow such needless cruelty.

[NC_Skins]

There are many moral men that don't believe in god. In fact, I've met a higher percentage of moral atheists over moral christians.

Also, you have to really sit and think about the intelligence of people that believe in a god/deity that most likely doesn't exist. So when they go and say stupid things like this woman, you have to understand why. Ignorance.

...and before some of you religious zealots come in here trying to lay the smack down on me for bringing up intelligence, I want you to ponder this. What would you think about the intelligence of a man that truly believed in Santa Claus? Lochness Monster? Easter Bunny? Aliens? Big Foot? Would you not question his intelligence or sanity? I would almost bet my life you would, and most likely would be the punchline on many of your jokes.

They aren't the same? Yeah, they are. They are both works of fiction about entities that cannot be proven.

[JoeRedskin]

To prove the existence of God you disprove the need for faith. If God's existence could be "proven" through forensic evidence, then his existence couldn't be questioned and the choice to follow him/her/it would be removed. In essence, we would be nothing morre than pets of an benign omipotent being. Very simply, that is not the God I in whom I believe (I have been through this before but can't find the posts).

Fine, belief in an entity that escapes definition of finite minds is the same as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. How could I be so blind?

As for the rest, aethist or religious, stupid is as stupid does. Judge not lest you be judged and he (or in this case, she) who can discern the ultimate truth underlying existence is either a far wiser person than I ever will be or an idiot.

For those who choose not to believe, fine. It is your choice, insulting the intelligence of all those with faith strikes me as the same intolerance of which you complain.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

To prove the existence of God you disprove the need for faith. If God's existence could be "proven" through forensic evidence, then his existence couldn't be questioned and the choice to follow him/her/it would be removed. In essence, we would be nothing morre than pets of an benign omipotent being. Very simply, that is not the God I in whom I believe (I have been through this before but can't find the posts).

Fine, belief in an entity that escapes definition of finite minds is the same as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. How could I be so blind?

As for the rest, aethist or religious, stupid is as stupid does. Judge not lest you be judged and he (or in this case, she) who can discern the ultimate truth underlying existence is either a far wiser person than I ever will be or an idiot.

For those who choose not to believe, fine. It is your choice, insulting the intelligence of all those with faith strikes me as the same intolerance of which you complain.

In the absence of science, there will always be something we fill that void with, and a all supreme being is generally what people tend to fill it with.


I think you took what I said and ran with it. Insulting the intelligence of those that have faith? Hardly. Putting their intelligence in perspective. Most definitely. Again, most people that believe in man made fairy tales are ridiculed and made fun of, even by some of the same people that also believe in a fairy tale themselves. (aka..christians) The fact is, both Santa Claus and the Bible were man made creations, based of some truth and history. Why is faith in one real, but not the other? There is no distinction regardless of what anybody thinks.

Intolerant? I think you are barking up the wrong tree with that accusation. In fact, I'm probably the most tolerant person you'll come across when it comes to ones beliefs. My general rule of thumb is if it doesn't affect me, or harm others in any way, I'm fine with whatever you want to do.

I don't look down on religious people, nor do I shun them. I grew up in a Christian home, and went to a private Christian school the majority of my youth. I know the Bible, I understand the belief as I used to believe and practice it myself. I sit here and still laugh at your accusation of intolerant, when my best friend actually believes the zombie apocalypse is coming. Yes, he believes the dead will rise (either by god or man made chemicals) at some point in time. Now as ignorant as this sounds, he still remains to be my best friend and I will always have his back.

Believing in god doesn't make you stupid, but it's hard to not question ones decision making when their lives and actions are based around something that may simply not exist. Believe it or not, some people would call this psychotic if it involved something other than "god". (aka..invisible friends)

I don't look down on either person. Choose to believe in Santa Claus or God. Doesn't make any difference, but lets not call one guy crazy and the other one enlightened.

[NC_Skins]

Home | Neil deGrasse Tyson

You all should follow this guy. A astrophysicist, a brilliant mind and a absolute joy to listen to.

[NC_Skins]

Speaking of "insulting". It amazes me that many people with faith often think atheists or agnostics lack morality. It's like they think that you cannot have morals without a spiritual guidance helping you out. As noted here. Idiot Bill Oreily tries to infer that Hitler and Stalin did the things they did because they were atheists which lead to their lack of morality.




Casting stones from glass houses.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Speaking of "insulting". It amazes me that many people with faith often think atheists or agnostics lack morality. It's like they think that you cannot have morals without a spiritual guidance helping you out. As noted here. Idiot Bill Oreily tries to infer that Hitler and Stalin did the things they did because they were atheists which lead to their lack of morality.

Casting stones from glass houses.

I mean, people say stupid things ... Atheists, Christians, Moslems, communists, capitalists, blacks, whites, martians, earthlings. Last I checked, no one group had a monopoly on stupid.

IMHO, rather than highlighting idiots, why don't we just look for those we can admire and see why they did and said what they did and said. What was their belief system and how did it affect them? And, most importantly, what can we gain from it.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

In the absence of science, there will always be something we fill that void with, and a all supreme being is generally what people tend to fill it with.


I think you took what I said and ran with it. Insulting the intelligence of those that have faith? Hardly. Putting their intelligence in perspective. Most definitely. Again, most people that believe in man made fairy tales are ridiculed and made fun of, even by some of the same people that also believe in a fairy tale themselves. (aka..christians) The fact is, both Santa Claus and the Bible were man made creations, based of some truth and history. Why is faith in one real, but not the other? There is no distinction regardless of what anybody thinks.

Comparing the Bible and Santa is not a fair analogy. Santa is a myth created. The Bible is not a myth but a tangible object.

The Bible is a man made creation - true enough. In fact, it was a book by committee if you will. The Bible, however, is not God. It is simply an attempt to describe the infinite through history, symbolism, poetry and parable. Ultimately, it is an attempt by finite minds to expand their limited means (words/language) beyond their defined terms in order to aid in the search for truth. Further, since its writing people have argued, discussed, contemplated, etc. over what is the "real" ness portrayed in the Bible.

The real analogy you assert is that God, as described in the Bible, and Santa are equivalent man made creations. Whereas one is an acknowledged myth whose tangible, finite existence (living at the North Pole, travelling by flying reindeer, etc.) can actually be disproven by known science, the God described in the Bible (certainly the one I believe in) exists beyond the finite and cannot be not defined or described by science. [Don't get me wrong, science gives incredible insight into the being I know as God and when legitimate science disproves aspects of my faith, I accept the science and reflect on the effect it has on my understanding of the creator. Ultimately, if your understanding of God is contradicted by legitimate science you're understanding needs to adjust. It's like they say in the army, when the map don't match the ground, go with the ground].

My point is that, while I believe no one's beliefs should be ridiculed (see my earlier statement about understanding the nature of the universe), I disagree with the assertion that all beliefs in supernatural beings (for lack of a better term) should be given equal credence. To assert that the belief in anthropomorhic Santa is the same as the belief in an infinite, undefinable being is just wrong. I claim no additional enlightment, I simply say that belief in a provable myth (i.e. we know from whence the created Santa comes and can disprove his existence as described) is different than the belief indefinable, infinite being (of whom, BTW, the mythological Santa was intended as is partial reflection).

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Intolerant? I think you are barking up the wrong tree with that accusation. In fact, I'm probably the most tolerant person you'll come across when it comes to ones beliefs. My general rule of thumb is if it doesn't affect me, or harm others in any way, I'm fine with whatever you want to do.

I don't look down on religious people, nor do I shun them. I grew up in a Christian home, and went to a private Christian school the majority of my youth. I know the Bible, I understand the belief as I used to believe and practice it myself. I sit here and still laugh at your accusation of intolerant, when my best friend actually believes the zombie apocalypse is coming. Yes, he believes the dead will rise (either by god or man made chemicals) at some point in time. Now as ignorant as this sounds, he still remains to be my best friend and I will always have his back.

Believing in god doesn't make you stupid, but it's hard to not question ones decision making when their lives and actions are based around something that may simply not exist. Believe it or not, some people would call this psychotic if it involved something other than "god". (aka..invisible friends).

Well, actually, Rat has on more than one occasion implied that the belief in God is merely a mental disease.

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

science is getting close to proving religion to be an addictive or flaw of the mind.

Perhaps, I should have said "intellectual intolerance" in the sense that I have encountered the claim that, with no knowledge how people came to their leap of faith (whatever it might be), any such leap is ultimately foolish. If that is not your belief, then the accusation of intolerance is not intended for you.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I don't look down on either person. Choose to believe in Santa Claus or God. Doesn't make any difference, but lets not call one guy crazy and the other one enlightened.

When it comes to crazy, as with stupid - crazy is as crazy does. Further, I would suggest that whether someone is "enlightened" or not is dependent on much more than their belief in God or Santa - it's the "why's" behind their belief that lead me to conclude someone is crazy or enlightened. I have known many an individual with beliefs I consider far fetched but whose underlying belief system displayed a much deeper thought, more rational thought than many a Christian I have known.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, actually, Rat has on more than one occasion implied that the belief in God is merely a mental disease.

Yeah, that sounds like something I'd say.

[mooby]

I don't believe in God, although I want to, not necessarily because I want religion in my life, but because I'd like to think when I die all my good deeds in life will take me to an awesome place where everybody has a good time all day every day. But I just don't see it, it being evidence of a higher power.

As far as religion goes, I don't really care what people believe in. If you are Christian and you believe in God and it helps you in your daily life, fine. I don't care about religion at all unless people try to push it on me, and that's when I get annoyed. I don't have a lot of tolerance for religious pushers. If I want religion in my life, I will put it in my life. Until then, leave me alone.

With all that said, this whole thing about Christians, or any other religion in America for that matter, being the next to be persecuted in America is crazy imo. I'm pretty sure the majority of non-religious Americans would leave religious Americans alone if the religious Americans left us alone. Sure there would be a few nutjobs hell-bent on destroying religion out there, but they will exist either way you look at it. And there's not enough of them to make a difference either.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't believe in God, although I want to, not necessarily because I want religion in my life, but because I'd like to think when I die all my good deeds in life will take me to an awesome place where everybody has a good time all day every day. But I just don't see it, it being evidence of a higher power.

As far as religion goes, I don't really care what people believe in. If you are Christian and you believe in God and it helps you in your daily life, fine. I don't care about religion at all unless people try to push it on me, and that's when I get annoyed. I don't have a lot of tolerance for religious pushers. If I want religion in my life, I will put it in my life. Until then, leave me alone.

With all that said, this whole thing about Christians, or any other religion in America for that matter, being the next to be persecuted in America is crazy imo. I'm pretty sure the majority of non-religious Americans would leave religious Americans alone if the religious Americans left us alone. Sure there would be a few nutjobs hell-bent on destroying religion out there, but they will exist either way you look at it. And there's not enough of them to make a difference either.

Sounds boring as fck.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by saden1

Sounds boring as fck.

I think everyone has their own idea of what "heaven" is to them. If your vision doesn't agree with mine, have fun at yours.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mooby

I think everyone has their own idea of what "heaven" is to them. If your vision doesn't agree with mine, have fun at yours.

Your idea of heaven is sadly the same as everyone else's and I can't help but notice you desire a painful existence. Have fun forever.