[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The bar is higher for removal. That is why no sitting president has ever been removed. I think it is laughable for a president to be impeached/removed for the actions alleged but I will say it again, if the House had done it the right way, and gotten the courts to open up most (but not all) the contested witnesses/documents, and there was evidence there was more there than asking for corruption investigations - ie evidence that Trump limited the corruption investigation to being tied solely to Joe Biden, which I don't believe is the case, or some direct mafia style intimidation, then I believe that Trump would have taken Nixon's way out. But, by playing politics with it, the House opened the door for the Senate to do the same.

Mooby, you say in any court of the land he would have been convicted, and I call BS on that. Because in a real court, with the evidence they had, the hearsay and NYT leaks would never have been allowed in, and the defense would have had a chance to cross examine the witnesses (I realize that would have happened mostly in the Senate), and the beyond a reasonable doubt standard would have been applied. I don't think you can say - beyond a reasonable doubt - that Trump's motive was primarily corrupt. Of course, that is the main difference in our politics, I look suspiciously at nearly every democrat's motive, at least the power brokers -not rank and file, and you, G1, Punch et al think Trump is corrupt. G1 didn't like the meme, but it is true, if Trump said air was good, some people would ascribe a motive of trying to sell the air for his gain...

Your last paragraph is spot on. Leaks and opinions from so called experts in the public space isn’t not evidence under oath and until you actually face an accuser under cross examination it’s a one sided opinion.

Jeez, people hate for the constitution, freedom of speech, free markets, due process.....it’s really amazing we have come to this. Maybe folks should travel abroad and see how others live.