Commanders Post at The Warpath - View Single Post - The Obama Years- A GOP love story

CRedskinsRule · 08-26-2014, 03:24 PM

This will turn in to a too long didn't read rambling post. Warning you upfront so you can choose to skip it, probably will be a rant against the current administration, but I want to say up front, republicans are idiots too, they just don't have much sway on the topics that are sitting on my mind leading to this rant. So please don't think I am favoring a return to the 2000 Bush presidency or the similar corporate shells of republicans. I wish we could somehow find a way back to real limited, decidedly neutral, government programs that benefit society and our national interests not individual groups, be they rich uppers, or poor lowers. We are tearing ourselves apart from the inside as the parties play off each other to distract us from their little clique.

And that's not even the rant!

I want to list several events in my mind, most of which point to gross incompetence, or pure lack of understanding, by those who are supposed to be defending our national security, but instead are collecting terabytes of data on our own citizens:
again, most of these are republican talking points but by no means am I arguing that the Republicans would have been better if they led the government, and sadly it's probably not all inclusive, only the items that weigh on my feeble mind.:

Benghazi
Russian flights testing US airspace
Chinese intercept of US patrol planes
Chinese assertion of rights over disputed territories
Corporations merging with international partners and transferring out of the US to avoid new taxes
regional conflicts (Ukraine, Isr/Gaza, Libya )

In several of these the US position has either been "we didn't know" or "if you do x we will be mad at you"

It reminds me (and I was only 11-12 at the time, so this part is probably heavily biased by a very conservative father's clearly expressed opinions) of Jimmy Carter's presidency. One in which the US seemed unwilling or unclear on how to act on an international stage. Jimmy Carter is a great humanitarian, and I respect him as such, but I also believe that he thinks - or did when he was in office- that all societies and leaders of societies hold to the same values as the US professes too. I think Pres. Obama shares that vision. And that is bad for the US, and in my opinion, the world. I think he acts in the belief that others, not labeled Republican, will do "the right thing" as he defines it. Thus, while he can't deal with Republicans, because he knows they just don't get his world view, he defines US national policies in ways that assume that the other leaders abide in it. I do think he is coming to understand that other powers will want to step into the void created by group think strategies, but I don't think he, or his national security teams truly believe that other nation-states might actually believe their own view of the is better than what the US provides.

Take this quote from Pres Obama today:
Pres. Obama: "In just 4 months we will complete our combat mission in Afghanistan and America's longest war will come to a responsible end"

Last I checked, there was no truce signed by all combatants. Simply by proclaiming an end to US involvement doesn't mean the other side is going to go along with it. What it does mean is that other countries and interests are going to see a vacuum and from previous patterns of US behaviour they know that we will be reluctant to get back into "America's longest war". Just look at another quote from today:Pres. Obama: "Our military action in Iraq has to be part of a broader strategy ... to take our fight to ISIL" and Pres. Obama: "American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq", this isn't the first time we upfront take a whole level off the table. I get that you don't want to send troops, and that ideally no troops would have to go back, but if you telegraph it, others gain strength from perceived weakness.

I think it's fair to say (and I could be wrong) that most of our wars have started when people miscalculated US intent. I see this advisor build up in Iraq, and think of the advisors in Vietnam. I see regional flare ups, and think of how WWI started because someone killed an arch duke and it escalated. I see the US thinking putting harsh sanctions on Russia is a way to change the mind of Putin, and think of the harsh sanctions that led to the rise of Hitler.

Maybe we are the great shining example, and all other nations will see us and think Gosh, that's who we want to follow. BUT, I highly believe that others see our heavy handedness much like the Roman Empire's was felt, and they see our demise as an opening for their greatness. Be it a new Caliphate, a return to the Chinese empire, or the Russian control over the former soviet bloc.

And that's not even touching the surface of republican and democrat national policy. Ugh. Can I get back to the distraction of football now.

08-26-2014, 03:24 PM	#237
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 58 Posts: 21,702	Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story This will turn in to a too long didn't read rambling post. Warning you upfront so you can choose to skip it, probably will be a rant against the current administration, but I want to say up front, republicans are idiots too, they just don't have much sway on the topics that are sitting on my mind leading to this rant. So please don't think I am favoring a return to the 2000 Bush presidency or the similar corporate shells of republicans. I wish we could somehow find a way back to real limited, decidedly neutral, government programs that benefit society and our national interests not individual groups, be they rich uppers, or poor lowers. We are tearing ourselves apart from the inside as the parties play off each other to distract us from their little clique. And that's not even the rant! I want to list several events in my mind, most of which point to gross incompetence, or pure lack of understanding, by those who are supposed to be defending our national security, but instead are collecting terabytes of data on our own citizens: again, most of these are republican talking points but by no means am I arguing that the Republicans would have been better if they led the government, and sadly it's probably not all inclusive, only the items that weigh on my feeble mind.: Benghazi Russian flights testing US airspace Chinese intercept of US patrol planes Chinese assertion of rights over disputed territories Corporations merging with international partners and transferring out of the US to avoid new taxes regional conflicts (Ukraine, Isr/Gaza, Libya ) In several of these the US position has either been "we didn't know" or "if you do x we will be mad at you" It reminds me (and I was only 11-12 at the time, so this part is probably heavily biased by a very conservative father's clearly expressed opinions) of Jimmy Carter's presidency. One in which the US seemed unwilling or unclear on how to act on an international stage. Jimmy Carter is a great humanitarian, and I respect him as such, but I also believe that he thinks - or did when he was in office- that all societies and leaders of societies hold to the same values as the US professes too. I think Pres. Obama shares that vision. And that is bad for the US, and in my opinion, the world. I think he acts in the belief that others, not labeled Republican, will do "the right thing" as he defines it. Thus, while he can't deal with Republicans, because he knows they just don't get his world view, he defines US national policies in ways that assume that the other leaders abide in it. I do think he is coming to understand that other powers will want to step into the void created by group think strategies, but I don't think he, or his national security teams truly believe that other nation-states might actually believe their own view of the is better than what the US provides. Take this quote from Pres Obama today: Pres. Obama: "In just 4 months we will complete our combat mission in Afghanistan and America's longest war will come to a responsible end" Last I checked, there was no truce signed by all combatants. Simply by proclaiming an end to US involvement doesn't mean the other side is going to go along with it. What it does mean is that other countries and interests are going to see a vacuum and from previous patterns of US behaviour they know that we will be reluctant to get back into "America's longest war". Just look at another quote from today:Pres. Obama: "Our military action in Iraq has to be part of a broader strategy ... to take our fight to ISIL" and Pres. Obama: "American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq", this isn't the first time we upfront take a whole level off the table. I get that you don't want to send troops, and that ideally no troops would have to go back, but if you telegraph it, others gain strength from perceived weakness. I think it's fair to say (and I could be wrong) that most of our wars have started when people miscalculated US intent. I see this advisor build up in Iraq, and think of the advisors in Vietnam. I see regional flare ups, and think of how WWI started because someone killed an arch duke and it escalated. I see the US thinking putting harsh sanctions on Russia is a way to change the mind of Putin, and think of the harsh sanctions that led to the rise of Hitler. Maybe we are the great shining example, and all other nations will see us and think Gosh, that's who we want to follow. BUT, I highly believe that others see our heavy handedness much like the Roman Empire's was felt, and they see our demise as an opening for their greatness. Be it a new Caliphate, a return to the Chinese empire, or the Russian control over the former soviet bloc. And that's not even touching the surface of republican and democrat national policy. Ugh. Can I get back to the distraction of football now.