Great Win, Just 1 Question Though
 

It was a great win last night. The team faught until the end, and showed alot of heart. It was awestome to see everyone who played on the D side of the ball contributing. My question : Is anyone else concerned with our lack of ability to run the ball? Are we running the right plays for Portis?

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I thought our whole defensive team played an outstanding game. We limited there big weapon(westbrook) in check. and Donovan, who usually finds a way to kill us didn't really do much out of the pocket other than a couple of nice escapes. It looked like we were getting some push up the middle with basically our DE playing DT. I am just a bit worried with our inability to run the ball with any consistancy. We have to be able to run the ball better late in games and grind it out. Plus I dont think any of us want to see Brunell back there throwing the ball 35 times a game. He will start to get T'd off on. All in all, a great effort by the Skins, from top to bottom. Bring on the Bucs!!!

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I think everyone should be concerned about not being able to run. We have played some really tough run defense's too. Doesn't get any easier this week either.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I'm extremely concerned with two major facts and a few other ones.
1) The running game -- I don't think we're catering to Portis' strengths. I'd like to see more to the outside, or just something to get him going.
2) Turnovers. Every Punt/Kickoff has me nervous now. Cooley is starting to build a slight reputation, two weeks in a row. Fumbles hurt us, we have a -8 turnover ratio -- that's awful!

Good thing we got that pick at the end of the game or it coulda been rough!

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

You just got to keep banging away with Portis & Betts. Wearing down a defense is just as important as a big gain....

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Philly did a great job at stuffing the run, throw out last week that was a fluke.

We're still averaging almost 120 yards rushing per game. Still room for improvement obviously, but the running game isn't exactly a huge problem area.

Turnovers would be my main concern right now.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I'm extremely concerned with two major facts and a few other ones.
1) The running game -- I don't think we're catering to Portis' strengths. I'd like to see more to the outside, or just something to get him going.
2) Turnovers. Every Punt/Kickoff has me nervous now. Cooley is starting to build a slight reputation, two weeks in a row. Fumbles hurt us, we have a -8 turnover ratio -- that's awful!

Good thing we got that pick at the end of the game or it coulda been rough!

[/QUOTE]
In responce to the running game, I agree we need to maybe put some more sweeps, draws or cut backs. Portis does not have any room to run up the middle or between the tackles. If we do open up the run a little more with stretch plays, sweeps, those kinds of plays it may open things up for the between the tackle runs. Cooley generally is pretty good at keeping a good hold on the ball. I dont know if anyone would have been able to keep there hand on the ball with the hit that Dawkins put on him. He put his helmit right on the ball, even though Cooley had both arms rapped around it. Special teams, Why is the Hell is James "fair catch every punt" Thrash even returning punts. Yeah he is pretty sure handed, but man there were a couple of punts last night that he could of returned, but he called for the fair catch. If we have Jacobs, or Moss or somebody else that could make things happen for us we should put them back there. Granted you dont want Moss to get hurt, but If we have a team punting deep from their end of the field, we should take advantage of that and have somebody back there that will make our field position that much better. I say we pick and choose our spots with Moss(like Carolina and Steve Smith) and put him back there.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]It was a great win last night. The team faught until the end, and showed alot of heart. It was awestome to see everyone who played on the D side of the ball contributing. My question : Is anyone else concerned with our lack of ability to run the ball? Are we running the right plays for Portis?[/QUOTE]

I thought we ran the ball well....remember, this is an Eagle defense that shut down the best runner in the game (LT to 9 frickin yards!!!!) two weeks ago. I thought the game plan was good and we won with good solid bend, don't break defense.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

portis may be hurt, hence no outside running... he was bashing with dlinemen regularly last night. Either way, I wouldn't have taken him out with how well he was doing in the non-running game.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]portis may be hurt, hence no outside running... he was bashing with dlinemen regularly last night. Either way, I wouldn't have taken him out with how well he was doing in the non-running game.[/QUOTE]

No doubt Portis was all over the place last night. Blocking down field, picking up blitzes and the tackle on the fumble was absolutely HUGE. Best all around game of the year, I think, for him. I just wish we could see him get some holes and run like we all know he can in the open field.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I'm concerned that the inside running is not playing to Portis' strength. We need to toss him the ball more often and make him run sweeps...that's when he can be as lethal as he was in Denver. We ran one yesterday, and Portis picked up almost 9, if I remember.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

At this point I dont think CP is worth the money he is being paid. He just cant seem to hit the holes and explode through them for big gains. He's a decent back but not great.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=irish]At this point I dont think CP is worth the money he is being paid. He just cant seem to hit the holes and explode through them for big gains. He's a decent back but not great.[/QUOTE]

I think Betts would give us as much in terms of yardage that Portis is givning us. Betts seems to be able to use his blockers better when running up the middle or between the tackles. Portis just doesn't seem to be comfortable running up the middle or between the tackles. What I think Portis brings to table though, is his toughness, willingness to pick up the blitzes and block down field. I give Portis credit, he is definately a TEAM guy. He has not said anything bad and keeps saying, as long as we are winning I will do what ever I need to do. He in not worried about touches, or yards, TD's or anything. GREAT ATTITUDE!!!! He has bought into what Gibbs and Co. have preached all year, as well as the whole team. To see the defensive guys up cheering the offense and vise versa, its awesome. And did you guys see who was the first person to hug Brunell after the game? Ramsey. With all that he has gone through, and to be able to put all that aside and root for the guy thats playing infront of you speaks volumes of the attitude of this team. I really think we are working on something very solid in DC. Guys willing to do what it takes to win!!! It is AWESOME to see

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=irish]At this point I dont think CP is worth the money he is being paid. He just cant seem to hit the holes and explode through them for big gains. He's a decent back but not great.[/QUOTE]

I think by the time it is all said and done he will be the best back the Skins have ever had. He will get 1200 - 1700 yards for us every year he plays. Add to that how he blocks, hustles and catches- he is something special. He is still looking at close to 1300 yards (after NY). And there is still alot of football to play.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]I thought we ran the ball well....remember, this is an Eagle defense that shut down the best runner in the game (LT to 9 frickin yards!!!!) two weeks ago. I thought the game plan was good and we won with good solid bend, don't break defense.[/QUOTE]
Good point. LT is the best runner in the game.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Yea, I am very concerned. The one redeeming factor of last night is, we did not abandon the run and we started to have more success in the second half. it appeared to be wearing down the Philly D. Not major, but positive. Like Daseal already mentioned, I would like to see Portis used outside more. He had some success last night in that area.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Kope]I think by the time it is all said and done he will be the best back the Skins have ever had. He will get 1200 - 1700 yards for us every year he plays. Add to that how he blocks, hustles and catches- he is something special. He is still looking at close to 1300 yards (after NY). And there is still alot of football to play.[/QUOTE]

I dont think that the skins brought CP here and paid him huge money to be a great blocker and hustle his tail off. Those are nice but that's not what a star back is supposed to be known for. The yards are nice but with the TDs he scores (not many so far) and if he rushed for 1200 yards (less than 100 per game) I would still say he is way over paid.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I think there's this misconception that Portis isn't a good inside runner. In fact I think he actually likes to run inside, if you watch him run he is usually seeking contact rather than avoiding it.

As for Betts, I like him but he's too injury prone to be relied on as a #1 back.

I really like what we have in Portis and Betts. Portis is as tough as they come and as someone said before I think he's more banged up than we may know.

And I really don't think we should underestimate what he does away from the ball. He's always hustling and doing everything the coaches ask him to do and then some.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=irish]I dont think that the skins brought CP here and paid him huge money to be a great blocker and hustle his tail off. Those are nice but that's not what a star back is supposed to be known for. The yards are nice but with the TDs he scores (not many so far) and if he rushed for 1200 yards (less than 100 per game) I would still say he is way over paid.[/QUOTE]

I have to take issue what what you're saying here.

For the money they are paying him, they must certainly do expect him to hustle and block.

Those are [i]exactly[/i] the things a star back is known for.

Look at the all-time greats, Payton, Smith, Brown, etc., they all did the little things whether it was catching balls, blocking, hustling, etc.

Ripping off big runs is nice, but if you ask me what makes a complete player is what he does without the ball.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think there's this misconception that Portis isn't a good inside runner. In fact I think he actually likes to run inside, if you watch him run he is usually seeking contact rather than avoiding it.

As for Betts, I like him but he's too injury prone to be relied on as a #1 back.

I really like what we have in Portis and Betts. Portis is as tough as they come and as someone said before I think he's more banged up than we may know.

And I really don't think we should underestimate what he does away from the ball. He's always hustling and doing everything the coaches ask him to do and then some.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. But I guess the question now is will we start seeing some more carries for Sellers?

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Portis has been battling injuries. He has limped through the last couple of games. I think we have a pretty solid one-two punch with Portis and Betts.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=irish]I dont think that the skins brought CP here and paid him huge money to be a great blocker and hustle his tail off. Those are nice but that's not what a star back is supposed to be known for. The yards are nice but with the TDs he scores (not many so far) and if he rushed for 1200 yards (less than 100 per game) I would still say he is way over paid.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. But prepare for the backlash, Irish. There is hell to pay for anyone who dares to criticize the almighty Clinton Portis. But I don't care. He's been a "good" running back for us, but that's it. Against NFC East opponents, his average after last night is 3.4 yards a carry. So I think it's perfectly fair to see that he's not exactly been what everyone hoped for, especially in the divisional games that matter most.

And spare me this [B]CRAP [/B] about "spreading the running lanes" or calling more toss-sweeps to "open things up" for Portis. The Skins did what they never do last night and actually pitched the ball to Portis when they were getting manhandled by the Corey Simon-less Eagles up the middle. It still didn't matter. Philadelphia stuffed the run last night. There's two realities that many Redskin fans simply do not want to believe: This offensive line is not good enough against above average defensive lines to run the ball and control the game, AND Clinton Portis is not as good as was advertised.

We won the game last night because of a heads up play by Derrick Dockery, and I officially take back everything I said about him being the weak link on this line. His recovery of Chris Cooley's fumble turned out to be the pivotal play in a game that was very close to going either way. For once, the ball bounced our way this season.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Completely agree. But I guess the question now is will we start seeing some more carries for Sellers?[/QUOTE]

I'd LOVE to see Sellers get some more carries. Gives the other teams something else to plan for. Maybe line him up in the backfield and Portis at WR.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I have to take issue what what you're saying here.

For the money they are paying him, they must certainly do expect him to hustle and block.

Those are [i]exactly[/i] the things a star back is known for.

Look at the all-time greats, Payton, Smith, Brown, etc., they all did the little things whether it was catching balls, blocking, hustling, etc.

Ripping off big runs is nice, but if you ask me what makes a complete player is what he does without the ball.[/QUOTE]

I think if you ask people what Walter Payton is known for, I doubt blocking is the answer you'll get. Sure he was a good blocker and complete player but he was known for his explosive running. Portis was brought here as an explosive RB and paid like one. No matter how you slice it, CP has not performed as the superstar RB the skins expected he would be.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

I do agree Portis has not been the "homerun threat" we thought he was going to be. If Gibbs and Co. had to do it all over again, they might have chosen shaun Alexander do to his size and strength. Not taking anything away from Portis, no body on this team has a big a heart as he does. The guy is sticking right up the gut and not shying away from contact. He just seems to go down with first contact when he is running up the middle. I do think we need to try and get some plays for him in open field. I liked what they did last night, lining him up outside. that opened up the field for some balls to Cooley over the middle. I would like to see us do this against the Bucs next week. That may take them out of the Cover 2 they play all the time, and may make them play a little more man, and some zones. If we can get them in man coverage, Moss will have another big day.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE] think if you ask people what Walter Payton is known for, I doubt blocking is the answer you'll get. Sure he was a good blocker and complete player but he was known for his explosive running. Portis was brought here as an explosive RB and paid like one. No matter how you slice it, CP has not performed as the superstar RB the skins expected he would be.[/QUOTE]

Walter was absolutly known as a great blocker- in fact I will say he was known as a complete back. He was more proud of his blocking than his running (that is from interviews)

I don't think many people will argue that denvers Oline has been better than ours over the last decade. As ours gets better so will Portis's stats. The only thing I hate about fantasy football is that it over emphasizes stats.

His value is not in stats (yet) but in all the other things.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

i love portis.he has done everything the coaches have ask of him.i think our line play leaves alot to be desired.i also think the portis trade was a done deal before coach gibbs was officially welcomed back.by the way,did anyone notice m zellers run over noted tough guy b dawkins on that one swing pass?

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Lost in all this is the way the skins were able to move the ball on the iggles-- by the INTERMEDIATE pass. They keyed on the run and the deep ball, and we went over the middle and to the medium dumpoff. I love watching us use the whole playbook. And we did stick to the run. And they had a big run or two called back on, to my mind, rather dubious holding penalties. Rabach held? No way.

As for CP, I'd like to see him get outside a bit more, either directly or by cut-back. They only tossed it to him once, and it was a nice gainer. I'd like to see more mixture there. But that TD run was sweet--great block by Rabach, striaght up the gut and in their face, and then CP gives the ball to his mom. And CP had some nice catches--that sideline play for example--and I thought Brunell missed him a few times when he was open. And he is a better blocker than Betts--he picks up every blitz well, and even handles pretty big guys. That's why the "max protect" works. Finally, running down the fumble was pure heart. You love to see that from your stars--hustle even when things go wrong.

So, of course, I'd love to get more production out of CP. But I am totally happy with having him on our team. And did you hear his comment about how psyched he was that Lavar was out there making plays? That's great--team unity and team leadership. And I like that he dresses up as a maniac every week--he has fun as a player.

But it's wins that matter, not personal stats. If he continues to help this team, in multiple ways, to win games, I will be completely satisfied with Mr. Portis.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Sellars running over Dawkins was classic. I want to get some video of that!

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

Portis is really showing me something, not just running but catching, blocking,and tackling.this line needs to continue to grow together, that's all that's left for them to do.were the individuals become the unit or line

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Sellars running over Dawkins was classic. I want to get some video of that![/QUOTE]

Ditto

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Agreed. But prepare for the backlash, Irish. There is hell to pay for anyone who dares to criticize the almighty Clinton Portis. But I don't care. He's been a "good" running back for us, but that's it. Against NFC East opponents, his average after last night is 3.4 yards a carry. So I think it's perfectly fair to see that he's not exactly been what everyone hoped for, especially in the divisional games that matter most.

And spare me this [b]CRAP [/b] about "spreading the running lanes" or calling more toss-sweeps to "open things up" for Portis. The Skins did what they never do last night and actually pitched the ball to Portis when they were getting manhandled by the Corey Simon-less Eagles up the middle. It still didn't matter. Philadelphia stuffed the run last night. There's two realities that many Redskin fans simply do not want to believe: This offensive line is not good enough against above average defensive lines to run the ball and control the game, AND Clinton Portis is not as good as was advertised.

We won the game last night because of a heads up play by Derrick Dockery, and I officially take back everything I said about him being the weak link on this line. His recovery of Chris Cooley's fumble turned out to be the pivotal play in a game that was very close to going either way. For once, the ball bounced our way this season.[/QUOTE]

and this post isn't reactionary at all considering you're totally willing to change your views on dockery cause of one single play ;)

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Lost in all this is the way the skins were able to move the ball on the iggles-- by the INTERMEDIATE pass. They keyed on the run and the deep ball, and we went over the middle and to the medium dumpoff. I love watching us use the whole playbook. And we did stick to the run.[/QUOTE]

That's an excellent point. Last night's game was the first time I can ever remember that Joe Gibbs utilized intermediate range passing as much as he did. Cooley, in particular ate Philly's defense alive. With Gibbs' offense, it seems that the passes are either deep to Moss, or wideout screens -- rarely, until yesterday's game, do you see passes in the 5 to 15 yard range over the middle to the TE's and H-backs. The game films must have showed a weak spot in Philly's defense, and Gibbs certainly exposed it.

Now if they can just figure out a way to get David Patten more involved. You'd think that teams are eventually going to start keying in on Moss and Cooley, which at some point will give Patten an opportunity to have a monster game. Don't know what the problem is there.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]and this post isn't reactionary at all considering you're totally willing to change your views on dockery cause of one single play ;)[/QUOTE]

I never claimed that I wasn't being reactionary. I watch the game, and I react to it.

So sue me.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

FINALLY, we ran a toss to Portis. Result? 8 yard gain. It's no coincidence, the guy is an awesome runner outside the tackles. What bugs me is that we run Betts outside all the time and Portis inside, when I think everyone can agree that it should be the other way around.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Now if they can just figure out a way to get David Patten more involved. You'd think that teams are eventually going to start keying in on Moss and Cooley, which at some point will give Patten an opportunity to have a monster game. Don't know what the problem is there.[/QUOTE]

Every week I keep thinking this is the week that Moss will be double teamed, but it seems he never is. Is it that a.) he's still not respected, b.) he's just blowing by the double coverage, or c.) Patten and the other receivers are doing just enough to keep double coverage away from Moss

Maybe the key to Patten is to get him the ball early, maybe start the Tampa game with some passes to him.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]FINALLY, we ran a toss to Portis. Result? 8 yard gain. It's no coincidence, the guy is an awesome runner outside the tackles. What bugs me is that we run Betts outside all the time and Portis inside, when I think everyone can agree that it should be the other way around.[/QUOTE]

By my count, there were three pitch-outs to Portis. The other two got no gains.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I never claimed that I wasn't being reactionary. I watch the game, and I react to it.

So sue me.[/QUOTE]


Your dead on Beams, we are finding out that big names, and big contracts, don't always translate into big play, it was nice to see that kind of hustle out of Dockery but he still has a lot of proving before I come around at this point.

As for Portis he is the back that was advertised, unfortuantly we decieded to change the scenery and try to make him a smash mouth runner, HE'S NOT! He needs to be used in a trapping and draw type offense, his TD run last night looked like a very quick draw, the defensive lines are penetrating the line of scrimmage regardless, we might as well take advantage of that with a quick draw type running game, let the defenses take themselves out of the play, that could help Portis and our O-line to rapid improvement.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]By my count, there were three pitch-outs to Portis. The other two got no gains.[/QUOTE]
One thing I think that has been overlooked about Portis this year is the weight he put on in the offseason. He intentionally beefed up to withstand the pounding like he took last year but does anyone think he has looked a step slower with his cuts since gaining the LBS? I think it helps a ton with pass protection and running up the middle but might have hurt just a little with his ability to break big runs.

Re: Great Win, Just 1 Question Thought
 

[QUOTE=onsidekick]One thing I think that has been overlooked about Portis this year is the weight he put on in the offseason. He intentionally beefed up to withstand the pounding like he took last year but does anyone think he has looked a step slower with his cuts since gaining the LBS? I think it helps a ton with pass protection and running up the middle but might have hurt just a little with his ability to break big runs.[/QUOTE]


I think that and him being banged up have slowed him down a step. He has been wearing a wrap or knee brace on one of his legs (left?) most or all of the season.