Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

THis is very cool--edited by CrazyZeb on extremeskins. :biggthump

[URL=http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114367]Week 1: Ramsey vs Brunell - A Video Analysis[/URL]

Well worth checking out. Pretty much confirms what we've been saying in both directions.

The hit on Ramsey is one of the most obvious and egregious personal fouls I've seen in a while. I still get completely pissed everytime I see it. WTF.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

By the way was that LB fined yet?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

I have not heard anything, which is disturbing...

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Is it just me or do both of them look pretty good?

The deep passes Brunell threw were pretty damn close. I'm not worried about the dinks and dunks as long as I see him going deep every now and then.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Let's just throw this out there..

Ramsey starts the game 1 for 4 for 4 yds, INT...

he then goes 5 for 7 for 101 yards (not bad AT ALL!) BUT...

if the bogus penalty on Cooley wasn't called it becomes 6 for 8 for 107 yds, TD. AND don't forget Portis drops a VERY catchable ball in there that would have been a 7 yarder which would have made him 7 for 8 for 114yds, TD after his first 4 attempts. I'd say that's damn good for ANY quarterback in the NFL in their first REAL action of the season after getting warmed-up (first 4 attempts).

Also let's DEFINITELY not forget the Brunell threw an INT into Vasher's hands as well, only his was called back due to penalty. So basically, Ramsey has a TD called back, and Brunell has a pick called back...

This is nuts. It even looked like Patrick was starting to look comfortable out there for once. It is VERY clear from watching the 2 play that you have 2 basic options. You can go with the Favre-type QB in the sense that he can and will get big chunks of yards on some plays yet throw a few INTs as well, or a guy who can only be ULTRA--ULTRA CONSERVATIVE throwing slants and WR screens but not many INTs. We proved last year that you HAVE to TRY and go downfield to help the running game and to score FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS to win games!! Remember that if we would have scored on average 21 points per game last year (which is less than the 6-10 panthers scored) we'd have been 11-5!!!

Can Brunell lead this team to the Super Bowl?? NO. Let Ramsey PROVE... I mean REALLY prove his isn't the future...

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Well it confirmed to me that Brunell looked damn good considering last year. Picking up the bad snap and turning it into a 15 yd. pass was impressive. Brunell knew what to do when the play was dead. No fumbles, no Ints. Lets wait and see if he can pick up where he left off.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Hail to the Redskins]Let's just throw this out there..

Ramsey starts the game 1 for 4 for 4 yds, INT...

he then goes 5 for 7 for 101 yards (not bad AT ALL!) BUT...

if the bogus penalty on Cooley wasn't called it becomes 6 for 8 for 107 yds, TD. AND don't forget Portis drops a VERY catchable ball in there that would have been a 7 yarder which would have made him 7 for 8 for 114yds, TD after his first 4 attempts. I'd say that's damn good for ANY quarterback in the NFL in their first REAL action of the season after getting warmed-up (first 4 attempts).

Also let's DEFINITELY not forget the Brunell threw an INT into Vasher's hands as well, only his was called back due to penalty. So basically, Ramsey has a TD called back, and Brunell has a pick called back...

This is nuts. It even looked like Patrick was starting to look comfortable out there for once. It is VERY clear from watching the 2 play that you have 2 basic options. You can go with the Favre-type QB in the sense that he can and will get big chunks of yards on some plays yet throw a few INTs as well, or a guy who can only be ULTRA--ULTRA CONSERVATIVE throwing slants and WR screens but not many INTs. We proved last year that you HAVE to TRY and go downfield to help the running game and to score FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS to win games!! Remember that if we would have scored on average 21 points per game last year (which is less than the 6-10 panthers scored) we'd have been 11-5!!!

Can Brunell lead this team to the Super Bowl?? NO. Let Ramsey PROVE... I mean REALLY prove his isn't the future...[/QUOTE]

Who cares who leads this team to the Super Bowl? This shit is getting ridiculous.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Well it confirmed to me that Brunell looked damn good considering last year. Picking up the bad snap and turning it into a 15 yd. pass was impressive. Brunell knew what to do when the play was dead. No fumbles, no Ints. Lets wait and see if he can pick up where he left off.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% with that.

If I saw right there was just one three-and-out the entire game (yes, it was Brunell). But anyway, that's a good job by our offense. And nice job by our receivers to run the right distance to get those first downs.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Who cares who leads this team to the Super Bowl? This shit is getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

I actually agree with you, it is ridiculous to think either Ramsey or Brunell is going to lead this team to the Super Bowl. Not going to happen, especially not going to happen with Brunell.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I agree 100% with that.

If I saw right there was just one three-and-out the entire game (yes, it was Brunell). But anyway, that's a good job by our offense. And nice job by our receivers to run the right distance to get those first downs.[/QUOTE]

there MAY have been a 2nd, that 36yard penalty was basically a free 3 points for us... to bad we gave them a free 7 in return :(

either way, lets hope dallas goes a bit better. and i agree, we're not looking at a super bowl right now, we're looking for 8-8 and on from there.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Hail to the Redskins]Let's just throw this out there..

Ramsey starts the game 1 for 4 for 4 yds, INT...

he then goes 5 for 7 for 101 yards (not bad AT ALL!) BUT...

if the bogus penalty on Cooley wasn't called it becomes 6 for 8 for 107 yds, TD. AND don't forget Portis drops a VERY catchable ball in there that would have been a 7 yarder which would have made him 7 for 8 for 114yds, TD after his first 4 attempts. I'd say that's damn good for ANY quarterback in the NFL in their first REAL action of the season after getting warmed-up (first 4 attempts).

Also let's DEFINITELY not forget the Brunell threw an INT into Vasher's hands as well, only his was called back due to penalty. So basically, Ramsey has a TD called back, and Brunell has a pick called back...

This is nuts. It even looked like Patrick was starting to look comfortable out there for once. It is VERY clear from watching the 2 play that you have 2 basic options. You can go with the Favre-type QB in the sense that he can and will get big chunks of yards on some plays yet throw a few INTs as well, or a guy who can only be ULTRA--ULTRA CONSERVATIVE throwing slants and WR screens but not many INTs. We proved last year that you HAVE to TRY and go downfield to help the running game and to score FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS to win games!! Remember that if we would have scored on average 21 points per game last year (which is less than the 6-10 panthers scored) we'd have been 11-5!!!

Can Brunell lead this team to the Super Bowl?? NO. Let Ramsey PROVE... I mean REALLY prove his isn't the future...[/QUOTE]

You know HTTR, the funny thing is all the Brunell supporters just assume that Brunell wont turn the ball over, as if it's a given, I will say it again, 9 turnovers in 9 games last season, and the INT against the bears that was called back was thrown up for grabs, we got lucky that the defender grabed a jersey because he probably didn't need to.

I really don't know where all this Brunell wont turn the ball over nonesense is coming from, probably because the only guy Gibbs gets on about TO's is Ramsey, he has a thousand excuses for his #1 son Brunell, and treats Ramsey like a redheaded step child.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Moss would have been in position had it not been for that grab.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

In addition to the interception, the two plays that probably sum up why Gibbs made the switch are the Ramsey fumble that the OL recovered where he sat in the pocket for about 4 seconds waiting for someone to get open and then getting hit and fumbling and the play that Brunell had in the red zone where no-one was open, he scrambled and threw it out of bounds protecting the FG try. Potential turnover vs. points on the board. You make the call.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

I saw something funny on ESPN last night, Brunell was the 2nd worst ranked QB last year and Ramsey was the 5th. So ultimately aren't we splitting hairs here? It's not like we're benching Montana and going to Heath Shuler.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

This was interesting from the [URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402196.html?referrer=emailarticle]Post[/URL] (about PR's INT):

[QUOTE]Yesterday, the only question Ramsey declined to answer concerned his turnover issues (two touchdowns and four interceptions) during preseason games. Ramsey was intercepted once Sunday by the Chicago Bears and, according to another offensive starter who requested anonymity, that interception -- on Ramsey's second pass of the game -- occurred when a receiver ran the wrong route, adding to Ramsey's frustration about the decision.[/QUOTE]

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You know HTTR, the funny thing is all the Brunell supporters just assume that Brunell wont turn the ball over, as if it's a given, I will say it again, 9 turnovers in 9 games last season, and the INT against the bears that was called back was thrown up for grabs, we got lucky that the defender grabed a jersey because he probably didn't need to.

I really don't know where all this Brunell wont turn the ball over nonesense is coming from, probably because the only guy Gibbs gets on about TO's is Ramsey, he has a thousand excuses for his #1 son Brunell, and treats Ramsey like a redheaded step child.[/QUOTE]

How many turnovers did Brunell have this preseason?

How many did Ramsey have?

I don't want to hear this crap about how the preseason doesn't matter and we should just overlook what happened.

Bottom line is you still have to make the right decisions and get the ball to where it needs to go.

Ramsey threw some really bad INTs, the kind of INTs that are understandable if a rookie is tossing them.

Brunell on the other hand didn't, despite the fact he was working with the 2nd and 3rd string offense.

For the record I'm not a Brunell supporter, and I'm not a Ramsey supporter, I'm a Redskins supporter #1, and a Gibbs supporter #2. I don't care who's playing QB as long as we're winning.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

preseason does matter. but it doesn't matter more than what happens in regular season.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]preseason does matter. but it doesn't matter more than what happens in regular season.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, so another INT and 2 fumbles later, it's the last straw for Gibbs and Ramsey is outta there.

Brunell by the way had 0 turnovers the rest of the game.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

so you think Brunell would have been able to duck that clothesline?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

I'm not saying that was Ramsey's fault, but his first fumble was. Either way, in the end it's in the book as 2 fumbles.

Should we go back and look at all of Brunell's turnovers last year to figure out which ones really were his fault and which ones weren't?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Exactly, so another INT and 2 fumbles later, it's the last straw for Gibbs and Ramsey is outta there.

Brunell by the way had 0 turnovers the rest of the game.[/QUOTE]


Going back to the preseason, you cant really tell me that the offense we ran almost our entire preseason looked anything like the offense we ran in the regular season game? Thats not saying Ramsey didnt make some stupid throws in preseason, because he did. However that type of offense was turnovers waiting to happen.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm not saying that was Ramsey's fault, but his first fumble was. Either way, in the end it's in the book as 2 fumbles.

Should we go back and look at all of Brunell's turnovers last year to figure out which ones really were his fault and which ones weren't?[/QUOTE]

well do you care about "the book" or don't you? if so, i'd definitely encourage you to look at Brunell's "book" last season.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Going back to the preseason, you cant really tell me that the offense we ran almost our entire preseason looked anything like the offense we ran in the regular season game? Thats not saying Ramsey didnt make some stupid throws in preseason, because he did. However that type of offense was turnovers waiting to happen.[/QUOTE]

Why is Brunell so quick to get tossed under the bus yet here we are defending Ramsey's turnovers?

Regardless of the offense, you still have to make the right throw and be accurate. Can you honestly say Ramsey did those things consistently??

Why did Brunell not come in and turn it over because we weren't running our "real" offense?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]well do you care about "the book" or don't you? if so, i'd definitely encourage you to look at Brunell's "book" last season.[/QUOTE]

I'm also looking at what we've seen so far this year from Brunell.

Something that I guess isn't relevant, last year should just trump everything that's happened so far this year?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why is Brunell so quick to get tossed under the bus yet here we are defending Ramsey's turnovers?

Regardless of the offense, you still have to make the right throw and be accurate. Can you honestly say Ramsey did those things consistently??

Why did Brunell not come in and turn it over because we weren't running our "real" offense?[/QUOTE]

so quick? after the turnover you admit wasn't his fault, Ramsey was given TWO drives. that's got to be record quick. compare that with 9 games. can preseason really account for that difference?

for the Bears, our running game and defense really started clicking as the game went on. the players got used to each other and saw what was being run. if Ramsey were to only have 3 drives this season, i wish they could have been in the 2nd half at least.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]so quick? after the turnover you admit wasn't his fault, Ramsey was given TWO drives. that's got to be record quick. compare that with 9 games. can preseason really account for that difference?

for the Bears, our running game and defense really started clicking as the game went on. the players got used to each other and saw what was being run. if Ramsey were to only have 3 drives this season, i wish they could have been in the 2nd half at least.[/QUOTE]

I thought we already agreed that this decision wasn't made based on 3 series, or are we back on that again?

To Gibbs I guess the offseason and preseason does mean something.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I thought we already agreed that this decision wasn't made based on 3 series, or are we back on that again?

To Gibbs I guess the offseason and preseason does mean something.[/QUOTE]

right we did, but that's why i asked if preseason performance really accounted for the difference in giving Brunell 9 games vs. Ramsey's 3 drives.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

So did Ramsey not have 7 starts last year?

Has that not been factored into the equation for Gibbs?

We're talking about two crappy QBs here, let's face it.

Why are some trying to hold Ramsey in such high regard?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Because some of us believe he has gotten a raw deal. That Ramsey was basically abused in Spurrier's "chuck-n-duck" system. That Gibbs told him he was the starter, but that Gibbs never meant it. That Gibbs has been stringing him along by saying "I believe in you", but then going out and buying a starter and drafting the future.

I don't think Ramsey is the be-all-end-all. I feel bad for the guy, though, which makes me want to stick up for him when people say Gibbs made the right decision.

Right or wrong, I think that is why some people are worked up about this.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You know HTTR, the funny thing is all the Brunell supporters just assume that Brunell wont turn the ball over, as if it's a given, I will say it again, 9 turnovers in 9 games last season, and the INT against the bears that was called back was thrown up for grabs, we got lucky that the defender grabed a jersey because he probably didn't need to.

I really don't know where all this Brunell wont turn the ball over nonesense is coming from, probably because the only guy Gibbs gets on about TO's is Ramsey, he has a thousand excuses for his #1 son Brunell, and treats Ramsey like a redheaded step child.[/QUOTE]

You're right. Every Ramsey basher has pointed to his TOs, but none of them has talked about Brunell's 9 TOs in 9 games last year. Why is this seen as a Ramsey problem? Brunell is guilty of the exact same thing.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So did Ramsey not have 7 starts last year?

Has that not been factored into the equation for Gibbs?

We're talking about two crappy QBs here, let's face it.

Why are some trying to hold Ramsey in such high regard?[/QUOTE]

yeah, and he won the same amount of games as Brunell did in 9. why is Brunell held in any regard? because of his distant past (in player terms)?

do you really think the differences in preseason account for betting TWO seasons on Brunell?

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

After watching the film on both of them, I dont see anything performance based in which any sane man could base a switch based on that game. Ramsey out played brunell period. He had one pick, whether it was his fault or not, and a fumble for hanging on to the ball too long. However we had 0 3 and out drives and on every 3rd down we faced Ramsey dropped back and made a good read to keep the drive going. That TD penalty was bogus, but the one thing that was shaky at times was the pass protection.

Let's keep that in mind. I think Gibbs is thinking that Brunell offers a guy who can perorm for a little while until he gets hurt, but Brunell really wants to play and is working hard to get to play, so why not throw him to the dogs and when he does get hurt PR will get another shot. We're going to face some defenses this season that are better at getting pressure than the Bears. Starting with next week. So to hell with it, I the PR fan am liking the decision now, because I think Brunell will only last a short while before he falls apart again due to injury.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]After watching the film on both of them, I dont see anything performance based in which any sane man could base a switch based on that game. Ramsey out played brunell period. He had one pick, whether it was his fault or not, and a fumble for hanging on to the ball too long. However we had 0 3 and out drives and on every 3rd down we faced Ramsey dropped back and made a good read to keep the drive going. That TD penalty was bogus, but the one thing that was shaky at times was the pass protection.

Let's keep that in mind. I think Gibbs is thinking that Brunell offers a guy who can perorm for a little while until he gets hurt, but Brunell really wants to play and is working hard to get to play, so why not throw him to the dogs and when he does get hurt PR will get another shot. We're going to face some defenses this season that are better at getting pressure than the Bears. Starting with next week. So to hell with it, I the PR fan am liking the decision now, because I think Brunell will only last a short while before he falls apart again due to injury.[/QUOTE]

Wow I said based 3 times in one sentance lol

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Once and for all, I'm not a Ramsey hater nor am I a Brunell lover.

The team comes above all.

I don't hold Brunell in any higher regard than I do Ramsey, but to me it seems that a lot of people are holding Ramsey in high regard or why else does everyone seem so eager to dismiss his inconcistency and turnovers while damning Brunell in the same breath. They're both pretty similar in terms of suckiness. (is that a word? I dunno sounds good though)

They both STUNK last year. But Brunell appears to be the lesser of the two evils right now.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Even if evil is the word for it. He completed clutch passes and didn't turn the ball over.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]After watching the film on both of them, I dont see anything performance based in which any sane man could base a switch based on that game. Ramsey out played brunell period. He had one pick, whether it was his fault or not, and a fumble for hanging on to the ball too long. However we had 0 3 and out drives and on every 3rd down we faced Ramsey dropped back and made a good read to keep the drive going. That TD penalty was bogus, but the one thing that was shaky at times was the pass protection.

Let's keep that in mind. I think Gibbs is thinking that Brunell offers a guy who can perorm for a little while until he gets hurt, but Brunell really wants to play and is working hard to get to play, so why not throw him to the dogs and when he does get hurt PR will get another shot. We're going to face some defenses this season that are better at getting pressure than the Bears. Starting with next week. So to hell with it, I the PR fan am liking the decision now, because I think Brunell will only last a short while before he falls apart again due to injury.[/QUOTE]

I really never thought I see the Day when a Skin Fan would like to see a guy fail on our team! I could care less who is QB as long as we win and beat Dallas and get another Super Bowl.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

I'm new here, so I won't name anyone specifically, but can someone please tell me what is efficient or even mediocre about 70 passing yards in 3 quarters of football? Brunell supporters want to make the case that he doesn't turn the ball over or make the bad pass, but I guess the floater he laid up, that went right into the hands of the Bears safety doesn't count since it was called back on a penalty.

Yes, Ramsey has some shortcomings. He holds the ball too long and often tries to force plays that aren't there, but at least with Ramsey, there's a chance he can make a big play on a 3rd and long. If there's a 3rd and long situation with Brunell in, I've already resigned myself to the fact that a punt is coming up. Not that I don't enjoy watching him throw a three yard checkdown on 3rd and 7, or using his vaunted mobility to get out of the pocket and throw the ball away, but that just doesn't keep the chains moving.

And you guys are mistaken if you think 23.3 passing yards a quarter and field goal drives are going to beat Dallas. If Dallas, or anyone for that matter, puts up more than 14 points, it's game over.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Rewatch the game, and you'll see Moss would have been in position for that ball had he not been pulled down by the jersey.

23.3 passing yards a quarter might not beat Dallas, but a heavy dose of Portis coupled with no interceptions will.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

I think that even if Dallas DOES line up to play the run, the kind of linemen they have aren't athletic enough to overpower the Skins line.

Re: Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears
 

Ok I guess we've now moved on to overanalyzing Brunell's 70 yards passing.

Could it be the fact that the running game was grinding away so well that we didn't see the need to air things out?

Could it be the fact that Brunell was inserted to an offense who's gameplan was geared towards another QB?

Moss turned a nice catch and run into a 52 yard gain for Ramsey, the throw was on target but let's face it Moss did the majority of the work. Take that away and Ramsey was a much more pedestrian 5 of 10 for 53 yards.