The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

Felt like we could use an official thread for this. Honestly I think most Americans are in agreement that we could be doing more to prevent mass shooters from accessing weapons, but as long as the NRA is alive and well they will lead the charge against any law putting restrictions in place.

[IMG]https://i.redd.it/sm2ip3mr74u61.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

Honestly I'm worn out on this issue because shootings keep happening and pretty much nothing gets done about it. We're a gun fucking crazy country and that's not going to change.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1281532]Felt like we could use an official thread for this. Honestly I think most Americans are in agreement that we could be doing more to prevent mass shooters from accessing weapons, but as long as the NRA is alive and well they will lead the charge against any law putting restrictions in place.

[IMG]https://i.redd.it/sm2ip3mr74u61.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

You know the drunk uncle isn't going to like this.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1281564]You know the drunk uncle isn't going to like this.[/quote]

In before "my right to quickly buy a gun is more important than kids lives in schools, shoppers in stores, concert goers at festivals, people at nightclubs, etc."

I joke, but I think even Chico agrees that a little longer waiting period and closing buying loopholes is a fair trade for less mass shootings and better background checks.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

We have a mental health issue in this country that drives the gun issue.

I personally have no guns nor do i hunt nor do i really want a gun for any reason.

But i also believe folks who enjoy that stuff that are qualified and of good mental health should have access.

There is always a small percent of folks that ruins anything for the masses.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1281565]In before "my right to quickly buy a gun is more important than kids lives in schools, shoppers in stores, concert goers at festivals, people at nightclubs, etc."

I joke, but I think even Chico agrees that a little longer waiting period and closing buying loopholes is a fair trade for less mass shootings and better background checks.[/quote]

The message was loud and clear after Sandy Hook. Guns > kids.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

First, we shouldn’t be compassionate to people who commit crime with guns.The country justice system should expound that deeply with locking up all folks who commit crimes with guns with the laws available on the books. We need everyone commitment on that.

If you can’t commit to that gun legislation on the books and punish people who commit these acts, why in the fuck would you add more laws if you chose not to enforce them with the same passion you say you have for the issue?

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

Are there people walking free that committed mass shootings? What are we not enforcing exactly?

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281568]The message was loud and clear after Sandy Hook. Guns > kids.[/quote]

The problem at Sandy Hook was a mental health issue the symptom of that problem was the death of innocent children.


Albeit you could argue if he had no guns there be less deaths but he would have found a different tool to do his work.

Most police officers will tell the most dangerous thing the public posses is a automobile. You could knock out a large number of folks with one.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

We're never going to commit to expanding mental health services either so crazy + guns = mass shootings = Merica!

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281573]We're never going to commit to expanding mental health services either so crazy + guns = mass shootings = Merica![/quote]

It be easier then trying to collect every gun in Merica

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1281572]The problem at Sandy Hook was a mental health issue the symptom of that problem was the death of innocent children.


Albeit you could argue if he had no guns there be less deaths but he would have found a different tool to do his work.

Most police officers will tell the most dangerous thing the public posses is a automobile. You could knock out a large number of folks with one.[/quote]

Sandy hook was just sickening. If you ever get a chance to read the backstory of the kid...his parents were terrible and they were like top 1% wealthy too. That’s a key thing behind so many problems, terrible fucking parents.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281573]We're never going to commit to expanding mental health services either so crazy + guns = mass shootings = Merica![/quote]

There are a lot of available services for mental health, especially if you live near a city or suburbs sprawl. Less rural mental health help because of funding.

Mental health still holds a strong stigma. Mental care should be part of school funding...it’s ridiculous how much the this country pisses away on education, they should divert money from their.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1281565]In before "my right to quickly buy a gun is more important than kids lives in schools, shoppers in stores, concert goers at festivals, people at nightclubs, etc."

I joke, but I think even Chico agrees that a little longer waiting period and closing buying loopholes is a fair trade for less mass shootings and better background checks.[/quote]

There is so much that could be done and none of it would be confiscating any guns!

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281570]Are there people walking free that committed mass shootings? What are we not enforcing exactly?[/quote]

[url]https://www.chicagotribune.com/gun-offenders-more-likely-to-commit-crime-again-says-study-story.html[/url]

[quote]A study by the U.S. Sentencing Commission released in June 2019 reported more than two-thirds of federal gun offenders were re-arrested within eight years of being released from prison, compared to less than half of non-firearms offenders. (John Gibbins)[/quote]

[IMG]https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/L_7jSxHHtOmkpytCOJHZPgy2HCc=/800x516/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5UNC3M2C5NDJJIGGO2AG7ELUKU.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

^

Lock them up! Lock them up!

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281587][url]https://www.chicagotribune.com/gun-offenders-more-likely-to-commit-crime-again-says-study-story.html[/url]



[IMG]https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/L_7jSxHHtOmkpytCOJHZPgy2HCc=/800x516/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5UNC3M2C5NDJJIGGO2AG7ELUKU.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Preach!

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281587][url]https://www.chicagotribune.com/gun-offenders-more-likely-to-commit-crime-again-says-study-story.html[/url]



[IMG]https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/L_7jSxHHtOmkpytCOJHZPgy2HCc=/800x516/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5UNC3M2C5NDJJIGGO2AG7ELUKU.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

From the article:

[quote]Gun offenders should be more closely supervised after release from custody, Jenkins said, including more frequent contact and searches to detect and deter access to firearms.

"Also closely associated with recidivism reduction is requiring the released offenders to participate in and complete Cognitive Behavioral Programs that help high-risk offenders change criminal thinking patterns, make better decisions, and more successfully re-engage in society," said Jenkins.

He said services such as employment training and substance abuse treatment are also critical.

"But changing criminal thinking should be the priority," he said.[/quote]

So I'm not sure that stricter sentencing is the answer like chico says, but instead expanding parole and re-training programs would probably be a good move.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1281589]^

Lock them up! Lock them up![/quote]

We should know from the war on drugs that locking people up doesn't work and isn't a deterrent.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281593]We should know from the war on drugs that locking people up doesn't work and isn't a deterrent.[/quote]

It’s Apple to oranges policy wise. Not the same

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1281594]It’s Apple to oranges policy wise. Not the same[/quote]

Locking people up period doesn't deter crime. Nor do longer sentences.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281595]Locking people up period doesn't deter crime. Nor do longer sentences.[/quote]

It deters the people in jail from committing crimes, because they are in jail.

Trying to sentence one person in some hope everyone else will notice, should not be the most important part of a prison sentence. Shouldn't really play a role at all.. It should be to properly and fairly punish the person that committed the crime.

I don't agree for reduced sentences to not be "mean" for lack of a better term nor do I want some crazy long unjustified sentence, to try to deter others. No one should be in prison to help deter crime. That's not their responsibility.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1281592]From the article:







So I'm not sure that stricter sentencing is the answer like chico says, but instead expanding parole and re-training programs would probably be a good move.[/QUOTE]I agree in that in all cases we are back to access to mental health professionals and better support for people coming out of poverty. In every case, restricting firearms and/or abridging rights to own a gun falls in a poor 3rd place in effectiveness to addressing the mental and economic health of people who are likely to resort to gun violence.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281592]From the article:



So I'm not sure that stricter sentencing is the answer like chico says, but instead expanding parole and re-training programs would probably be a good move.[/quote]

If you aren’t demanding justice for the victims of violent crimes and don’t understand the trauma of victim/witness...you simply have zero clue what these communities go thru. You allow the cycle to continue..quick fact check removing people who commit gun crime from the street or neighborhood works, not just a little, it works a lot.

You also are somehow working under a construct that all of these people can be save under the right rehabilitation. It’s a fantasy world...I’ve worked in that world. I once believed what you do.

In some parts of the country over 80 percent of gun crime is with illegally possessed guns. You created deterrence and safer streets by eliminating the person possessing the illegal gun with clearly stating it will not be tolerated anymore with mandatory sentencing.

You want to get community activism going, hold them accountable for the rehab of each person put behind bars for an illegal gun. Let them do the education, rehabilitation and job training. I’m so sick of the whining and them providing zero results. It’s beyond pathetic.

If you want to reference mass shooting, I always have this linked saved:
[url]https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting[/url]

Take a look where and who are committing these crimes. It’s not lawful gun owners

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1281592]From the article:







So I'm not sure that stricter sentencing is the answer like chico says, but instead expanding parole and re-training programs would probably be a good move.[/QUOTE]Pretty ironic that many of the same people that think stricter gun control is needed to prevent mass shootings will argue against stricter gun control for people who have already used guns violently.

I believe my position (not the NRA's) is the least hypocritical- punish those who use guns to commit violence, intervene with mental and economic assistance to reduce impetus' toward violence, and let citizens who want to own guns do so safely and openly.





Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281608]Pretty ironic that many of the same people that think stricter gun control is needed to prevent mass shootings will argue against stricter gun control for people who have already used guns violently.

[B]I believe my position (not the NRA's) is the least hypocritical- punish those who use guns to commit violence, intervene with mental and economic assistance to reduce impetus' toward violence, and let citizens who want to own guns do so safely and openly. [/B]





Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I don't disagree with any of this.

I also feel like the gun problem can also be tied to the recidivism problem. Jail works as a punishment for a crime, but it does nothing in teaching a criminal how to break the cycle of returning to the life of crime after the sentence is over.

The mass shooting thing - I think stronger background checks (means taking a little longer for your average law-abiding citizen) in conjunction with closing the loopholes would help in that regard. How many times do we see that article after a mass shooting talking about how many red flags the offender had but none of it came up when they legally purchased the gun used to commit the crime?

Also think if you have been convicted of a violent crime that should clearly be noted when you go to purchase a gun. If you have DV convictions, or assault/battery/etc. convictions those are red flags that should come up (but every application should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis). Harsher penalties for straw purchases or people who don't report their registered gun being stolen too.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

I’m still seeing some major inconsistencies from the left position

1. Let’s make it a more comprehensive background check and license people to legally own a gun. Also strengthen red flag law

Fact: most gun crime (approx 75%) is committed with an illegally possessed gun

If you are adding more checks to owning a gun and most gun crime is committed with illegally possessed gun.....then we need to punish those with jail time who are breaking your precious initial check to stop crime [B]as the data clearly shows[/B]

You guys aren’t being honest and consistent in your logic. The crime committed is the problem

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1281646]I’m still seeing some major inconsistencies from the left position

You guys aren’t being honest and consistent in your logic. The crime committed is the problem[/quote]

JHC , you need help.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

This thread is literally the definition of pissing in the wind. No meaningful changes are in the pipeline and likely never will be. Not sure what we're even arguing about, polls show that the majority of Americans are on the same page with tighter gun control yet lawmakers never make it happen.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

IMHO (all this is ) . It's a combination of more of everything. Yes given them tough sentencing and no parole. Yet while in there the training for them once they are out should be better and definitely mandatory school for those without HS diplomas. Combine with tighter measures on guns and licensing . Should everyone have a right to a gun ...[B]NO[/B], just no. Some don't deserver the right .Once you serve criminal time you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun or have possession of one. You forfeit that right by committing the crime . Yes , I believe in the death penalty and for murder one ,it's death. Right now there is no fear of Police or prison .

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281655]This thread is literally the definition of pissing in the wind. No meaningful changes are in the pipeline and likely never will be. Not sure what we're even arguing about, polls show that the majority of Americans are on the same page with tighter gun control yet lawmakers never make it happen.[/quote]

Because the NRA has every gun owner afraid the government will come get their guns and that has never been suggested(by serious people)

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

If you locked up every single person in possession of an illegal gun you would see an immediate, drastic drop in gun crime across the country. People who live in fear, whose constant worry of their child being a victim caught in the middle could walk down the street or play outside. Gang violence would drop, interaction of violence between police and citizens would drop, etc.

It would be special

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1281656]IMHO (all this is ) . It's a combination of more of everything. Yes given them tough sentencing and no parole. Yet while in there the training for them once they are out should be better and definitely mandatory school for those without HS diplomas. Combine with tighter measures on guns and licensing . Should everyone have a right to a gun ...[B]NO[/B], just no. Some don't deserver the right .Once you serve criminal time you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun or have possession of one. You forfeit that right by committing the crime . Yes , I believe in the death penalty and for murder one ,it's death. Right now there is no fear of Police or prison .[/quote]

Oh there's plenty of fear of the police right now, and that's a big part of the problem. It's all fear and no respect.

And sorry but executing people has never been a deterrent for crime.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1281655]This thread is literally the definition of pissing in the wind. No meaningful changes are in the pipeline and likely never will be. Not sure what we're even arguing about, polls show that the majority of Americans are on the same page with tighter gun control yet lawmakers never make it happen.[/quote]

By that standard (pissing in the wind = no meaningful changes) we ought to just shut down the debating with the enemy portion of the forum.

And honestly, I think the board would be just as well off -or even better off. When it first was opened the US was a different place. Yes, we had crazies from both the left and the right, (remember JoeTheismanFan and our resident bunker expert whose screen name I forget). But there was still a sense of fellowship around the team and most of the ribbing was indeed good natured. But the US, and this board has changed. Now trumpists are called cultists, blm followers are trashed with hate, both sides have positions so tightly locked in granite that there is no point in these discussions, it's all just pissing in the wind and hoping the other side is downwind.

As for this thread, I actually felt like there was decent constructive dialogue about how to find the balance of concerns and while, no we aren't changing the political equation, we were (mostly) discussing our differences with civility.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

I doubt that many minds have ever been changed on a message board especially regarding hot button issues. The names and players change, but the song remains the same. I recall plenty of hostile exchanges here in the past, the list of people that were banned from both sides prove that. So I'm not sure how much has really changed.

Things seem more charged right now but it's always easy to forget the past. Today's George Floyd was yesterday's Rodney King. Scary to think sometimes how little things change in terms of social issues while other things change wildly like technology. Today we can watch TV on our phones and buy magic internet coins. Imagine trying to explain these things to someone who time traveled from 1950, the crazy advancements in technology yet we're still weighed down by race issues and we have to worry about a maniac with a gun shooting up a school, workplace, or movie theater on the regular. Just doesn't make sense sometimes.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

Without reading the thread ... I dont own guns (bc of my medical marijuana card) but would own one for home protection and going to a gun range every now and then sounds fun. Ive gone shooting a bit.

I think people in Montana or Georgia should have guns. Go in the woods or the range or the desert. Do your thing, live your life.

I think most gun restriction laws would just impact regular law abiding citizens and not effect criminals with guns at all.

Mass shootings - Mental health issue. I think maybe a 2 week waiting period for gun purchases would be good (this is where people tell me theres already a 2 week waiting period). It wouldnt stop all or even most mass shootings but some of these were done by guys who just bought the guns a few days earlier.

If someone is going through a mental health breakdown or episode ... 2 weeks might give them a long enough cooling period or maybe friends or parents get concerned.

everyday criminal shootings - i think theres just way to many guns being made and pumped into the supply chain. These things are made to last 10-20 years.

398 MILLION guns in the US as of 2018. We manufacture btw 8-10 million new guns a year. Our streets are just saturated with guns. We are flooded with guns and they just keep making new ones.

------------

1. 2 week waiting period

2. Dont allow prosecutors to drop the 5 yr mandatory minimum for "use of gun in commission of violent crime" and "illegal possession"

3. Cap gun manufacturing or make it a one off .. for every gun made an old gun must be destroyed. (this will probably never happen ..)

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1281664]I doubt that many minds have ever been changed on a message board especially regarding hot button issues. The names and players change, but the song remains the same. I recall plenty of hostile exchanges here in the past, the list of people that were banned from both sides prove that. So I'm not sure how much has really changed.



Things seem more charged right now but it's always easy to forget the past. Today's George Floyd was yesterday's Rodney King. Scary to think sometimes how little things change in terms of social issues while other things change wildly like technology. Today we can watch TV on our phones and buy magic internet coins. Imagine trying to explain these things to someone who time traveled from 1950, the crazy advancements in technology yet we're still weighed down by race issues and we have to worry about a maniac with a gun shooting up a school, workplace, or movie theater on the regular. Just doesn't make sense sometimes.[/QUOTE]Agreed on all of this.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1281664]I doubt that many minds have ever been changed on a message board especially regarding hot button issues. The names and players change, but the song remains the same. I recall plenty of hostile exchanges here in the past, the list of people that were banned from both sides prove that. So I'm not sure how much has really changed.



Things seem more charged right now but it's always easy to forget the past. Today's George Floyd was yesterday's Rodney King. Scary to think sometimes how little things change in terms of social issues while other things change wildly like technology. Today we can watch TV on our phones and buy magic internet coins. Imagine trying to explain these things to someone who time traveled from 1950, the crazy advancements in technology yet we're still weighed down by race issues and we have to worry about a maniac with a gun shooting up a school, workplace, or movie theater on the regular. Just doesn't make sense sometimes.[/QUOTE]



[emoji817]

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

Appears Rittenhouse will be acquitted.

He put himself in a situation where hed get a chance at confrontation and then claim self defense.

All parties seemed to want to play this stupid LARP game.

I dont understand it. The motivation form all parties involved, being so impassioned about something that you become blinded and tunnel visioned.

He wanted to kill some liberals.

He killed some.

He will be a hero to the far right AR 15 magas.

Feels like 10% of this country has lost their minds, left and right.

Soon enough we'll ahve role reversals where POC killl some Maga types bc they went to a maga rally inviting confrontation and well see how that plays out in court and in the court of fox news.

Soon enough theres just going to be a shoot out.

Re: The 2nd Amendment Thread
 

[QUOTE=SunnySide;1299348]Appears Rittenhouse will be acquitted.

He put himself in a situation where hed get a chance at confrontation and then claim self defense.

All parties seemed to want to play this stupid LARP game.

I dont understand it. The motivation form all parties involved, being so impassioned about something that you become blinded and tunnel visioned.

He wanted to kill some liberals.

He killed some.

He will be a hero to the far right AR 15 magas.

Feels like 10% of this country has lost their minds, left and right.

Soon enough we'll ahve role reversals where POC killl some Maga types bc they went to a maga rally inviting confrontation and well see how that plays out in court and in the court of fox news.

Soon enough theres just going to be a shoot out.[/QUOTE]


Fuck him. Dude is just a product of the extreme right. A little white killer with a chip on his shoulder looking to be some kind of white hero.