Sua Cravens
 

Some of our threads get so wide ranging and I thought this subject could use its own place.

So many thoughts. On one hand I can't begrudge anybody for doing what they think will make them feel happy and as fulfilled as possible. And on the other hand I think about how committed you need to be in order to compete at a professional level, and how he would even be received in the locker room after this. I couldn't blame his defensive teammates if they didn't want any part of him, now.

But more than anything, I just think what an indictment of Scot McCloughan. All he ever talked about was wanting Football Players; guys who ate slepted and breathed the game. Guys with a passion for it, guys with character who gave everything they had to give.

And it comes out now that Cravens disappeared from USC when injured, going MIA from the team for three days. And Mike Jones reports that to those who knew him from USC, they're hardly surprised at the news that he's contemplating retirement.

That's the furthest thing from a Scot McCloughan Football Player there ever was. What a failure to identify the characteristics he always noted as crucial.

This Cravens thing is disappointing in so many ways, but I think none more so than in highlighting the overrated performance of Scot McCloughan as GM. It's not that Scot completely blew it, I'm very thankful for Scherff and Crowder among others. But for someone who can so articulately describe the personal characteristics that make a winning football team, he sure didn't identify them consistently enough in his draft selections.

Hope Sua does what's best for him. I think I hope he rides off into the sunset so Jay can drive home the point that effort trumps ability. Deshazor Everett deserves to start, no matter how much more talented Cravens is.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173166]Some of our threads get so wide ranging and I thought this subject could use its own place.

So many thoughts. On one hand I can't begrudge anybody for doing what they think will make them feel happy and as fulfilled as possible. And on the other hand I think about how committed you need to be in order to compete at a professional level, and how he would even be received in the locker room after this. [B]I couldn't blame his defensive teammates if they didn't want any part of him, now.
[/B]
But more than anything, I just think what an indictment of Scot McCloughan. All he ever talked about was wanting Football Players; guys who ate slepted and breathed the game. Guys with a passion for it, guys with character who gave everything they had to give.

And it comes out now that Cravens disappeared from USC when injured, going MIA from the team for three days. And Mike Jones reports that to those who knew him from USC, they're hardly surprised at the news that he's contemplating retirement.

That's the furthest thing from a Scot McCloughan Football Player there ever was. What a failure to identify the characteristics he always noted as crucial.

This Cravens thing is disappointing in so many ways, but I think none more so than in highlighting the overrated performance of Scot McCloughan as GM. It's not that Scot completely blew it, I'm very thankful for Scherff and Crowder among others. But for someone who can so articulately describe the personal characteristics that make a winning football team, he sure didn't identify them consistently enough in his draft selections.

Hope Sua does what's best for him. I think I hope he rides off into the sunset so Jay can drive home the point that effort trumps ability. Deshazor Everett deserves to start, no matter how much more talented Cravens is.[/quote]

This right here pretty much nails it IMO.

Even if this was just a personal matter that he didn't manage to handle on his own, and he does decide to come back to football, I'm thinking he wouldn't want to come back to this team... could you imagine stepping back into that locker room after this?

That would need a lot of peaceful communication from both him and his teammates for this to work out.

At the same time if he really did fully decide to come back, I'm guessing his teammates would ease down after he made a few good plays. The field is the best place to solve problems.

But all that reasoning is useless if he just walks out.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Deshazor Everett has worked his tail off and shown the commitment to his craft..and has beaten the odds to start in the NFL. I'm really hoping it works out for him. He is the opposite of how Cravens has handled his opportunity.

We are assuming a lot of this is injury driven decision from Cravens...is it? Can we confirm this? On the other hand if he simply doesn't want to play...that's ok too I guess. But again, why is this effing coming out a week before the season. This is completely unacceptable.

Now what will set me off is if Cravens is using this as a reason to leave the skins and play somewhere else. This is a big assumption based on nothing but just a hunch. If this is the case, this is completely unacceptable.

Only this franchise folks.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

I agree with both of these post. Well said sirs

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Montae Nicholson is looking promising and Harvey-Clemons should be shifted back to S if Cravens retires. Harvey-Clemons could be like Kam Chancellor.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

yea and the redskins caught hell for letting Scott go..he botched this up..

Re: Sua Cravens
 

One player does not a scathing indictment of a gm make. What's the average percentage of draft picks that work out well for a team anyway. Thirdly, the smart consensus is that it takes 3 years to adequately grade draft picks anyways, yet here we are already claiming guys like Preston Smith, Doctson, and Kendall Fuller busts because they didn't start their careers strong? Idc about later round picks because those are crap shoots anyway, go find out the percentage of 4-7th + undrafted players that ended up long term contributors to their original drafting teams anyways, and come back and tell me how common it is for entire draft classes to pan out.

Yes, I agree, this reflects poorly on McCloughan, especially given his speech about drafting guys who love the game. But it's one guy. One draft pick wavering on his commitment. How many picks has McC been responsible for since the 49ers started giving him more control? Let me guess, those picks don't count because they were made by other teams.

His overall body of work still stands up for me, even though you guys have already given up on his draft classes of 15-17. What the fuck does it say that we still use his scouting services, and this year's class still had his footprints all over it, even though they canned him after badmouthing him. Yall motherfuckers clueless. The draft is a crapshoot anyways, has any of you learned anything from watching the NFL anyways? Motherfucking undrafted players end up in the HOF. Yeah, this reflects especially poorly on him. But weak ass knee jerk reactions like this invalidating McC's career work is weak as fuck.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173166] I couldn't blame his defensive teammates if they didn't want any part of him, now.

[/quote]

S/N I forgot to mention this but this is a very important point. Even if he comes back, some teammates might forgive him, but others won't. And if Jay preaches about earning your starting spot it means he will be riding the bench. Everett has earned it, so it's his job to lose. For our sakes I hope he does well enough we can forget about Cravens. The kid is done here, even if he makes it through the season.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

if he makes the decision to retire,i just wander why he made it now as opposed to before he had surgery? and if he has a money advisor,he would be stupid to retire now being he has money to repay to the team.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

I think the Carvens situation is just one more piece that shows McC was not the 2nd coming of Jesus. His picks really have not panned out. I think we are back to mediocre thanks mainly to Gruden. After the Vinny shit show getting this team back to mediocre is no small step.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Mooby I fully agree that we should not jump to conclusions on the very young group. I think Fuller in particular has a skill set to be very valuable for us this year, let alone over the next three.

But if you're doing your research on the backgrounds of players, I don't know how you don't come up with a whiff of something sour on Cravens.

Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge in my OP that it's not right to crap on everything McC did. But a high second rounder is a big miss.

At the time, we sorely needed an expert talent scout and he was a good hire. I wouldn't undo it. I'm just recognizing that his performance - a mix of good and bad - did not justify the pedestal I put him on.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

sad to read about this, would be such a waste of a 2nd round pick.

...following matt jones as a waste of a 3rd round pick, dog shit.

hopefully doctson doesn't amount to a waste of a 1st round pick for the trifecta.

so important to draft players who love the game.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173178]Mooby I fully agree that we should not jump to conclusions on the very young group. I think Fuller in particular has a skill set to be very valuable for us this year, let alone over the next three.

But if you're doing your research on the backgrounds of players, I don't know how you don't come up with a whiff of something sour on Cravens.

Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge in my OP that it's not right to crap on everything McC did. But a high second rounder is a big miss.

At the time, we sorely needed an expert talent scout and he was a good hire. I wouldn't undo it. I'm just recognizing that his performance - a mix of good and bad - did not justify the pedestal I put him on.[/quote]

I don't know how he missed that Cravens walked out for 3 days while injured at USC either, either he knew and drafted him or he didn't know. Either way looks bad regardless. But I still trust him as a talent evaluator. As far as available talent evaluators go, he would still be near the top of my list. I just think people that disliked him for a while are using this as an excuse to rip on McC, when the focus should be on Cravens' issues, and what we can do to absorb this blow.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

SM is not GM anymore so I don't even waste any thought on it from that perspective.

As for how this played out...

Can't for a second begrudge someone from trying to be happy. Completely understand. But I do feel like he handled this pretty poorly. The timing just sucks. There are 89 other guys whose livelihood depend on teammates and coaches doing their jobs. There are countless coaches and scouts whose lives get affected by this stuff. I think the player had a duty to not leave the team holding the bag like this. Just in terms of timing. Someone got cut that didn't need to get cut because of the timing.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=mredskins;1173177]I think the Carvens situation is just one more piece that shows McC was not the 2nd coming of Jesus. His picks really have not panned out. [B]I think we are back to mediocre thanks mainly to Gruden[/B]. After the Vinny shit show getting this team back to mediocre is no small step.[/quote]

C'mon man! A young player thinks about retiring and this wipes out 2 back to back winning seasons, a top 5 offense last year, and what should be an improved D this year ?

Back to mediocre? Really ? Thanks to JG ?! Really ?

Go back and watch 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons! That's mediocre ! The last 2 seasons were not. And this season will not be.

Some of you deserve more of Rex Grossman as your QB and Bacarri Rambo and Whitner as your safeties, as a reminder of what mediocre feels like.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1173188]C'mon man! A young player thinks about retiring and this wipes out 2 back to back winning seasons, a top 5 offense last year, and what should be an improved D this year ?

Back to mediocre? Really ? Thanks to JG ?! Really ?

Go back and watch 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons! That's mediocre ! The last 2 seasons were not. And this season will not be.

Some of you deserve more of Rex Grossman as your QB and Bacarri Rambo and Whitner as your safeties, as a reminder of what mediocre feels like.[/quote]

2009 2010 and 2011 are bad seasons.

Again, some folks don't like to read, I said the Su thing is a piece of the McC's tenure here.

AND yes I put those two winning seasons more thanks to JG then McC.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173178]Mooby I fully agree that we should not jump to conclusions on the very young group. I think Fuller in particular has a skill set to be very valuable for us this year, let alone over the next three.

But if you're doing your research on the backgrounds of players, I don't know how you don't come up with a whiff of something sour on Cravens.

Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge in my OP that it's not right to crap on everything McC did. But a high second rounder is a big miss.

[B]At the time, we sorely needed an expert talent scout and he was a good hire. I wouldn't undo it. I'm just recognizing that his performance - a mix of good and bad - did not justify the pedestal I put him on[/B].[/quote]

Totally agree with you.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=mredskins;1173190]2009 2010 and 2011 are bad seasons.

Again, some folks don't like to read, I said the Su thing is a piece of the McC's tenure here.

AND yes I put those two winning seasons more thanks to JG then McC.[/quote]

Ok then you meant "I think we are NOT back to mediocre thanks mainly to Gruden", didn't you ?

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1173192]Ok then you meant "I think we are NOT back to mediocre thanks mainly to Gruden", didn't you ?[/quote]

[B]Mediocre-[/B] of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:

[I]The Washington Redskin's record in 2015(9-7) and 2016(8-7-1) was mediocre.[/I]

[B]Bad- [/B]not good in any manner or degree.

[I]The Washington Redskin's record in 2009 (4-12), 2010 (6-10), and 2011 (5-11) was bad.[/I]

[B]Excellent- [/B]possessing outstanding quality or superior merit; remarkably good.

[I]The Washington Redskins's record in 1991 (14-2) was excellent. [/I]

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=mredskins;1173193][B]Mediocre-[/B] of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:

[I]The Washington Redskin's record in 2015(9-7) and 2016(8-7-1) was mediocre.[/I]

[B]Bad- [/B]not good in any manner or degree.

[I]The Washington Redskin's record in 2009 (4-12), 2010 (6-10), and 2011 (5-11) was bad.[/I]

[B]Excellent- [/B]possessing outstanding quality or superior merit; remarkably good.

[I]The Washington Redskins's record in 1991 (14-2) was excellent. [/I][/quote]

Haha ok, you know what, all of this is because in french we use the exact same word, "médiocre" but in a different way: for us it means [B]way below average[/B], presenting no interest whatsoever, and has a really strong negative connotation...
In french it's a fancy word for "sucks at what he does".

Sorry, langage issue. Thanks, I learned something today ^^

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1173194]Haha ok, you know what, all of this is because in french we use the exact same word, "médiocre" but in a different way: for us it means [B]way below average[/B], presenting no interest whatsoever, and has a really strong negative connotation...
In french it's a fancy word for "sucks at what he does".

Sorry, langage issue. Thanks, I learned something today ^^[/quote]

I actually wrote that being a smart ass but then I looked at your user name and I wonder if we had a language barrier. LOL! Sorry.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Sounds to me like Craven's has maybe some bi polar issues that could be treated..his thought process is all over the place.I would not be surprised if this is the case..properly treated he could have a NFL career.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

I'm over Cravens. Time to move on. Let him figure things out on his own. If he wants to play in the future then the Redskins will cross that path when and if it comes.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

I think Cravens is already over the Redskins. Unfollowed the team on Twitter, says on his Snapchat "now that I don't have anyone to answer to, I'll be real with y'all".

And before you jump on me, actions taken on social media matter a great deal for millennials. I think he has mentally moved on, the team should too.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Talented kid but nobody can force him to play. Hopefully he re-thinks it, he's passing up on a pretty rare and special opportunity.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Agreed with the few posts above me, I am over Cravens and I think Cravens is over the Redskins. I think he understands the impact of his decision and how his team and coaches may feel like he quit on them and won't accept him if he wants to come back. Let's move on and try to groom Nicholson and Everett at the SS position. They are ahead of him already as far as learning the position in the NFL so don't see Cravens being sorely missed.

Also agree that he seems to be bi-polar. A couple days before the retirement news, he was on Snapchat looking back at his football articles in the LA Times, wearing both his USC and Redskins helmets, and looking at old school assignments where his #1 goals was to make it to the NFL. Seemed excited about the prospects of the season and being in the league, and them he turns around and retires. Just hopes he gets whatever help he needs. Luckily we still control his rights, so if he decides to come back we can trade him and officially move on.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173203]I think Cravens is already over the Redskins. Unfollowed the team on Twitter, says on his Snapchat "[B][U]now that I don't have anyone to answer to, I'll be real with y'all[/U][/B]".

And before you jump on me, actions taken on social media matter a great deal for millennials. I think he has mentally moved on, the team should too.[/quote]

This is exactly the attitude killing that generation...just aren't real. Social media allows these fucks to put on a costume...in this case a dress...

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Wouldn't surprise me if it eventually comes out that he's struggling with some mental health issues.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

I don't like the timing in all of this. He waits until the day after the deadline to get down to 53 men on the active squad to say he's retiring, thus, robbing another player from a chance at making the team.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=mredskins;1173195]I actually wrote that being a smart ass but then I looked at your user name and I wonder if we had a language barrier. LOL! Sorry.[/quote]

:food-smil

Re: Sua Cravens
 

Suzy‏Verified account @Sua_Cravens Aug 15
More
Surgery was a BREEEZE 🙅🏽*♂️! All is good #Week1 #HTTR
58 replies 402 retweets 1,634 likes
Reply 58 Retweet 402 Like 1.6K

[url]https://twitter.com/Sua_Cravens?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor[/url]

He seemed all in on August 15. Confused 22 year old who is convinced he is not confused.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Schneed10;1173203]I think Cravens is already over the Redskins. Unfollowed the team on Twitter, says on his Snapchat "now that I don't have anyone to answer to, I'll be real with y'all".

And before you jump on me, actions taken on social media matter a great deal for millennials. I think he has mentally moved on, the team should too.[/quote]

Yeah I'm over him too. Just wish he didn't wait until the day after cuts to do this. Literally any other day would've worked better. I hope he finds the help he needs.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=rocnrik;1173172]yea and the redskins caught hell for letting Scott go..he botched this up..[/quote]

No, I don't think he did,the talent was there so it was a good pick.

Good artical ....it's an old one but interesting.



[url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/2/#3137f81f6315[/url]

Re: Sua Cravens
 

mcglohan might have messed this up, but in the small time he was here he brought stability, and definitely upgraded the roster. with cravens issues, i totally disagree with the thought that he wouldnt be welcomed back into the locker room. i know plenty at my work that have disappeared any where from weeks, to months, attending to mental issues. as long as he could come back, and do his job, i see no problem

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=dmek25;1173238]mcglohan might have messed this up, but in the small time he was here he brought stability, and definitely upgraded the roster. with cravens issues, i totally disagree with the thought that he wouldnt be welcomed back into the locker room. i know plenty at my work that have disappeared any where from weeks, to months, attending to mental issues. as long as he could come back, and do his job, i see no problem[/quote]

He would be welcomed back, if he has a mental or family issue. If it comes out that he just doesn't want to play or is mad at the team, he will have a hard time earning he respect of his teammates.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=Giantone;1173237]No, I don't think he did,the talent was there so it was a good pick.

Good artical ....it's an old one but interesting.



[url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/2/#3137f81f6315[/url][/quote]

Problem is that Cravens pulled this stunt in college..so your gonna tell me Scott did not know this..Cravens is done as a redskin ..we lost a second round pick..go check who we could have had If we had passed on Cravens..you see He does not think about the team ,fans ,teammates etc..only thinks and cares about himself. This is a wasted pick period..

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1173259]..you see He does not think about the team ,fans ,teammates etc..only thinks and cares about himself..[/QUOTE]


All the other players play because they're thinking about us, the fans, and about the good of the Redskins lol.

And some work out their personal problems by smashing wide receivers (and occasionally girlfriends), and others by stepping away from the game. For the sake of our Sunday enjoyment we want the first category, but let's be careful about judging

Propensity to personal confusion and doubt (like propensity to gf smashing or ingesting dangerous substances) is one of those things you hope a player gets over once he matures and becomes a true professional. You take a chance on all these guys, including propensity to injury.

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=HTTR;1173281]All the other players play because they're thinking about us, the fans, and about the good of the Redskins lol.

And some work out their personal problems by smashing wide receivers (and occasionally girlfriends), and others by stepping away from the game. For the sake of our Sunday enjoyment we want the first category, but let's be careful about judging

Propensity to personal confusion and doubt (like propensity to gf smashing or ingesting dangerous substances) is one of those things you hope a player gets over once he matures and becomes a true professional. You take a chance on all these guys, including propensity to injury.[/quote]

Good post. I think we forget the players are human too, with the same faults as us. The only different is their bank accounts. But if people haven't learned money doesn't teach you ethics, personal responsibility, accountability, etc. they haven't been paying attention. Whatever Cravens' issues are, I hope he gets them sorted out. But he's done here, even if he changes his mind (which I doubt happens).

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[quote=mooby;1173288]Good post. I think we forget the players are human too, with the same faults as us. The only different is their bank accounts. But if people haven't learned money doesn't teach you ethics, personal responsibility, accountability, etc. they haven't been paying attention. Whatever Cravens' issues are, I hope he gets them sorted out. But he's done here, even if he changes his mind (which I doubt happens).[/quote]


Not a favorite player of mine but I like what he had to say......
[url]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-sua-cravens-22-considered-retiring-but-redskins-changed-his-mind/[/url]


"If it's family issues, personal issues, whatever he's dealing with, I'm supportive. Hopefully he'll deal with what he has to deal with and be back out here."
It's good, though, that Cravens' teammates do seem to be supportive of him, even if they've been blindsided by the report.
"You never know what's in anyone's life so you make sure that's fine first and foremost before you get back to your job," said Redskins cornerback Josh Norman. "This game tests your wits in every form, every facet of your body, your mentals. Everything. If you're not ready to come back and play and give it your all and your heart isn't in it, then you'll seriously go out there and get hurt."

Re: Sua Cravens
 

[IMG]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-_ZGbSVjLJQ/maxresdefault.jpg[/IMG]

-----------------------------------

Im having a hard time accepting that our starting SS just up and quit 1 week before week 1.

Cravens twitter retweeted Trent Williams thoughts on it (put health over $, etc). Ironically he also re-tweeted a walk-on players post of "Never give up". Dude, you gave up ...

I had high hopes for Cravens. Gut punch still hurts.