McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

He isn't that old, and age shouldn't be the reason for him doing this poorly. He stunk last year, and is off to a start that I could literally do if I were the qb for the vikings.

It gets me thinking, was he ever good? or was he just a product of a great offensive scheme. I know he didn't always have the best wr core, but maybe good coaching/play calling can make up for lack of talent more than we thought. Look at how McDaniels did in denver last year offensively. Orton had NOBODY and still did very well.

It makes me happy that we traded him, makes me mad that we ever traded for him, and makes me question how much of a qb's success is based off of the coaching scheme and play calling.

Of course it is just one game, he has 15 more to show that he has stuff, but I'd say its safe to assume that he's pretty much a non-factor now.

I can't believe I drafted percy harvin. Shoulda went with moss.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Like power hitters in baseball, quarterbacks seem to decline VERY quickly once their body starts to age. Most go from hero to zero in a matter of a couple years. Whether it is a decline in reflex reaction time, muscle control, leg speed, whatever... qb's go downhill fast. I think McNabb [U]h[U][/U]ad[/U] a lot of talent and was well coached. He has just reached the expiration point on his career. It is a sad fact that we all get old and slow down, but that is an immutable fact of life.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

After seeing what AJ Feeley did in Miami after leaving Reid, seeing what McNabb has done after leaving Reid, and seeing the transformation Vick has made since joining Andy Reid, it's probably time to give a ton of credit to Big Red as a developer of QBs.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Why are we still talking about this jackass?


McDummy has ALWAYS been overrated by the media and sports pundit. Andy Reid has shown that other QBs have been successful in his system, but those same QBs haven't shown to replicate the success they had in Philly. Five NFC Championship and he's only won 1. He's never been clutch, and I don't recall him ever leading a team to a win with 2 minutes left on the clock and needing a TD. Excuses have ALWAYS came up for McDummy. Oh...the WRs weren't good, Oh...the OL wasn't blocking....Oh....Andy Reid wasn't calling the right play. Instead, it should have been, Oh, McNugget isn't accurate enough to hit receivers in stride. Oh, McNugget sucked at moving the chains with his arm and getting yardage in between the hash marks.

**** this clown. People hound Rush Limbaugh way back then for his assessment on McNugget, but he was spot on. (even backed up by Steve Young that day)

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I agree with Schneed. Reid deserves all the credit.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I can't help but think he may have lost his passion for the game once he got traded from Philly. He clearly hasn't been the same since.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=Mattyk;835999]I can't help but think he may have lost his passion for the game once he got traded from Philly. He clearly hasn't been the same since.[/quote]

definite possibility, another thing I was thinking is that he's had so many surgeries and injuries, maybe they mounted up.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Take A Stab At McNabb

that didnt work

Suck For Luck

I hope we dont try that either.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=skinster;836000]definite possibility, another thing I was thinking is that he's had so many surgeries and injuries, maybe they mounted up.[/quote]


McNabb really has been pretty healthy when compared to most NFL players.

I think like Matty said he is just going through the motions no real desire.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=lc-carpenter_mcnabb_vikings_decline091411]McNabb looks very much like QB in decline - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[IMG]http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/09/ipt/1316045829.jpg[/IMG]


I believe the system DID help him a lot in Philly. Yes, he had athletic talent earlier in his career. He could run well and had a strong arm on long throws. Accuracy never impressed anyone and it appears that last year exposed his inability to adapt or learn...unless it was a case of a lack of effort.

Minnesota is supposed to be a system that fits his skills. Week 1 was a disaster but I won't judge his whole season on one horrible week. However, I do think that he's done. Injuries have really taken a toll on him and his lack of accuracy is really showing now that his arm and scrambling ability are declining.

Many mediocre QBs have done adequate jobs in Reid's offense. This is why I am not buying into Kolb. He didn't impress me in Philly and I don't expect him to excel anywhere else.

Koy Detmer, Jeff Garcia, Ty Detmer, AJ Feeley...all have looked at least serviceable in Philly.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=Mattyk;835999]I can't help but think he may have lost his passion for the game once he got traded from Philly. He clearly hasn't been the same since.[/quote]

I second your theory.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=mredskins;836004]McNabb really has been pretty healthy when compared to most NFL players.

I think like Matty said he is just going through the motions no real desire.[/quote]

just throwing it out there as a possibility. And considering his age, no he hasn't been healthy for most qbs. As an eagle, from 2004-2009 he only completed one season. From 2002-2009 he completed 2 seasons (2002 he played 10 games, 2005-9, 2006-10) The more you get injured in your career, the earlier your body will break down on you. Motivation probably has something to do with it, anxiety to prove himself on game day probably does also. And andy reid probably has alot to do with it.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Ive been thinking about this for a long time but in the opposite way. Are some QB busts only bust because they were put into a situation that doesn’t take advantage of their strengths?

You got very well rounded qb’s that, during their prime, are likely going to be good no matter what type of system you put them in (think Farve, Cutler, Bledsoe).

Then you got guys that are really only suited towards certain type systems, and I agree and think McNabb would make a perfect case study of a guy that was put into a position to succeed early on and then forced to do things outside of his dominate strengths later in his career (although this isnt susposed to be the case in Minn). The offense in philly focused on McNabb’s strengths, not the other way around (maybe we should be giving madd props to Ron Rivera and not just Cam Newton?).

Then you also got QBs that are square pegs in round holes like Orton in Chicago (and hopefully Grossman), this list could also include Brad Johnson, Steve Young and Brees.

They seem to recruit guys and mold the offense around the QB more so in college then they do in the NFL, perhaps because regardless of the what type of QB you are if youre good enough to get drafted youre probably viewed as a very well rounded player. I got no problem with system QBs. I think their great. If Grossman and Beck are put in situations that will make them succeed, id rather have that then a awesome QB forced in a system that doesn’t really utilize their strengths as much as it could. So maybe the thinking should be, instead of whos the best qb, whos the best quarterback for my offense.

Although McNabb might be a old dog new trick type qb. I mean if you were to put Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in a completely new offense at this point in their careers would you really expect them to be great or even top 10 qbs?

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

It is definitely the brilliant coaching staff and scheme that the Eagles have had throughout the years. McNabb, AJ Feeley, Jeff Garcia, Kolb, Vick, all were clearly beneficiaries of playing under Reid. What's even more remarkable is how NFL talent evaluators were too ignorant to realize that, and the Eagles front office capitolized.

2nd for Feeley (quite certain he was out of the NFL within a couple of years.)
We know what they got for McNabb.
Kolb for a top 10 2nd round pick (Cardinals are awful) and a young, proven pro bowl cornerback.
That trade was a tragedy. Don't you think the Cardinals could've used Rodgers- Cromartie on Sunday?

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

McNabb was always over rated IMHO.

TO was right about him.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=Schneed10;835992]After seeing what AJ Feeley did in Miami after leaving Reid, seeing what McNabb has done after leaving Reid, and seeing the transformation Vick has made since joining [B]Andy Reid, it's probably time to give a ton of credit to Big Red as a developer of QBs[/B].[/quote]

Kolb wont be bad..Not only that, but he pretty much has all say in personel moves...great moves by the FO.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Being benched TWICE in your starting career is embarassing.
Being traded to a division rival is embarassing.
Being owned by Rex Grossman is embarassing. Whether or not this should be the case is a seperate matter, but w/e.

Mc39inwaistline's TQBR
2008: 51.9
2009: 57.3
2010: 41.0

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Mcnabb is done might as well start ponder

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I think McNabb had talent, but also was helped tremendously by a system that helped him succeed. When it seemed that McNabb was on his way out, the best situation for him was to go to a team that had all the pieces there, except for a QB. Going to a team like ours or this year's Vikings is not a good situation for him. This sort of reminds me of Favre's stint with the Jets and then with the Vikes. The Jets were rebuilding when Favre got traded there, and he wasn't that successful. Yet when he went to the Vikes the following year, he had a good o-line, great running game (AP), very good WR (Rice), and a top defense.

McNabb's talent + Reid's system for many years resulted in McNabb being a top caliber QB. His declining abilities were not good enough to carry a rebuilding team last year, and it will certainly not carry this year's Vikes. I still think the McNabb trade was terrible and may have set the franchise bakc for a year. I'm glad he's gone.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I also want to mention exactly why McNabb has diminished. His whole career, his ability to run has kept him afloat at the top of the QB list in the NFC. As the years passed and injuries mounted, his ability to run has all but vanished which is why he's struggling as a QB now. He never had the skills to be a top flight QB to begin with (accuracy, pocket presence, intelligence, quick release) that the others have. (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees) It's not McNabb's age (34) that is making his decline show. Look no further than the 39-40 year old Brett Farve almost pulling out a MVP to debunk that notion. If your whole game relied on your wheels, expect a lower shelf life for those types of QBs. This is why I'm so dead set against the "run first" kind of QBs that come into the league. That might get you far in the NCAA and win you some games in the NFL, but to really progress and prolong your career, you need to win games from the pocket with the abilities I mention prior.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Ask yourselves what top QB doesnt benefit from the system he's in.

McNabb has just lost it in my opinion. I'm sure he probably has one or two big games left that'll make people think he's still a viable starting QB but that's it.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

First off let's reserve judgement after a few games or more.

I will say that DM has been a great QB in a great system for a long time. Hes not the most accurate of passers but he makes up for it w/ incredible athletic ability. Shiftiness. The ability to slide out of trouble, buy time, run, step up and hit receivers downfield. That's his game. Of course the Andy Reid system is excellent and put him in positions to succeed too.

I still think in the right system he can be a top notch QB. He's not old. He's still mobile. I don't know enough about Minn's system to offer an opinion on it.

The guy didn't fit in our system. Bad trade but at least we admitted as much and moved on.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;836066]I also want to mention exactly why McNabb has diminished. His whole career, his ability to run has kept him afloat at the top of the QB list in the NFC. As the years passed and injuries mounted, his ability to run has all but vanished which is why he's struggling as a QB now. He never had the skills to be a top flight QB to begin with (accuracy, pocket presence, intelligence, quick release) that the others have. (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees) It's not McNabb's age (34) that is making his decline show. Look no further than the 39-40 year old Brett Farve almost pulling out a MVP to debunk that notion. If your whole game relied on your wheels, expect a lower shelf life for those types of QBs. This is why I'm so dead set against the "run first" kind of QBs that come into the league. That might get you far in the NCAA and win you some games in the NFL, but to really progress and prolong your career, you need to win games from the pocket with the abilities I mention prior.[/quote]

I agree that McNabb's running ability made him successful. But like running backs, the more running he did the more it took a toll on his body which made him less effective as a runner. It also made him less effective as a passer because he no longer was able to extend passing plays like he was when he was younger. There seems to be a correlation with increasing age and decreasing skills, but it's only because USUALLY (older) age means more mileage and wear and tear.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;835994]People hound Rush Limbaugh way back then for his assessment on McNugget, but he was spot on. (even backed up by Steve Young that day)[/quote]What?

Rush said all his success came from some ill-defined, ill-conceived "notion of hope the NFL has for black players". I'm fairly certain he pulled that load from his arse.

That's a FAR cry from any of the points you made.

Naw, Rush wasn't spot-on about anything.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Also that's why some college qbs are able to rely on their running ability to be successful. Because obviously, those qbs aren't as beat up and have "young legs".

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I am trying to think which QBs have successfully transitioned from one team to another. Drew Brees comes to mind, going from San Diego to becoming an elite QB in New Orleans (I don't know if there was much of a difference between the two systems). Favre one-year stint in Minny could be one...but that was only a year. I guess maybe Brad Johnson's move to Tampa could be considered. Can anybody else think of other examples?

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

A good test may be Roethlisberger- to see if he declines suddenly for no obvious reason.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=ashvirtually;836080]What?

Rush said [U]all his success came from some ill-defined, ill-conceived "notion of hope the NFL has for black players"[/U]. I'm fairly certain he pulled that load from his arse.

That's a FAR cry from any of the points you made.

Naw, Rush wasn't spot-on about anything.[/quote]


I think you need to review exactly what Rush said. He said no such a thing.


[YT]XGiTv_xRd5A[/YT]

His point is that he was overrated and he got credit for much of what the defense was doing. It's spot on.

Listen to Steve Young at the end.

Now his point about the media/NFL wanting him to succeed because he's black? Well, that part he pulled out of his ass.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Yeah, I never got why Limbaugh was ever on TV to do NFL analysis in the first place.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;836100]Yeah, I never got why Limbaugh was ever on TV to do NFL analysis in the first place.[/quote]

Same reason they decided Dennis Miller would be a good MNF commentator. Stupidity.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

People can say what they want about McNabb but he seems to be a class act. The only knock I have on him is that he didn't seem toeimbrace Shan's system and maybe lacked effort. Other then that has has been an outstanding person for this game.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=firstdown;836114]People can say what they want about McNabb but he seems to be a class act. The only knock I have on him is that he didn't seem toeimbrace Shan's system and maybe lacked effort. Other then that has has been an outstanding person for this game.[/quote]

Class act? You shitting me? You mean the same "class act" that had his agent blast the head coach and OC during the season, and then turn around the next day and say "I don't have a problem with Kyle". Did he scold his agent? Nope. Did he refute anything he said? Nope. In fact, he did absolutely nothing but play that "neutral...ooo....i'm so innocent" role.

There is a reason the locker room was split 50/50 in that whole TO fiasco in Philly. It's because many on the team thought he was two faced, and judging by his short time here, it was a accurate assessment.


**** this assclown. I hope he has a miserable season so I can sit back and laugh at him and then everybody will know what a fraud he is.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;836121]Class act? You shitting me? You mean the same "class act" that had his agent blast the head coach and OC during the season, and then turn around the next day and say "I don't have a problem with Kyle". Did he scold his agent? Nope. Did he refute anything he said? Nope. In fact, he did absolutely nothing but play that "neutral...ooo....i'm so innocent" role.

There is a reason the locker room was split 50/50 in that whole TO fiasco in Philly. It's because many on the team thought he was two faced, and judging by his short time here, it was a accurate assessment.


**** this assclown. I hope he has a miserable season so I can sit back and laugh at him and then everybody will know what a fraud he is.[/quote]

Nobody is as perfect as you think you are.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

At some point he is going to have to accept the realization that Andy Reid was right. Maybe he really is finished. His game has been in decline since 2006 when injuries began to take their toll. Being traded from Philly was a heart-breaker for him despite the fact he did a good job of keeping his emotions in check. He'll never again come close to duplicating any of his better years spent with Reid.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

Jeff Garcia Koy Detmer Feeley etc all looked great in that system in philly its the system......McNabb isn't that good he's like trent green a system qb at best

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=firstdown;836114]People can say what they want about McNabb but he seems to be a class act. The only knock I have on him is that he didn't seem toeimbrace Shan's system and maybe lacked effort. Other then that has has been an outstanding person for this game.[/quote]

Skilled at PR =/= classy.

This is what McNabb learned, and hence why he has power over the uneducated masses.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_studies]Communication studies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=Defensewins;836124]Nobody is as perfect as you think you are.[/quote]

He's more skilled than you give him credit for, and that's why you're McNabb's bitch.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;836127][B]Skilled at PR =/= classy. [/B]

This is what McNabb learned, and hence why has power of the uneducated masses.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_studies]Communication studies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url][/quote]

I agree 100%. That's why I don't put stock in classy. I prefer attitudes and traits that are more TEAM-based.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

I actually dont give a shit. Guy is yesterdays news........now about this rex grossman pro bowlesque thing we got going on here.................................


turn the ****ing page people.

Re: McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;836147]I actually dont give a shit. Guy is yesterdays news........now about this rex grossman pro bowlesque thing we got going on here.................................


turn the ****ing page people.[/quote]

Thank you! I'd rather we see how the next few weeks go and maybe a start a similar thread to this..but about Rex Grossman