Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

Worst day since 2008

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/04/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?hpt=hp_c1]Market Report - Aug. 4, 2011 - CNNMoney[/url]

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

I'm sure this is Bush's fault some how.

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Yeah. Not good. There is just not a lot of job creation going on, stimulus has run its course and, on top of that, the "quantitative easing" and stimulus has flooded the economy with money - markets can see that. Lots of people are predicting serious inflation over by the end of 2012 (8 - 12%).

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[quote=JoeRedskin;820093]Yeah. Not good. [B]There is just not a lot of job creation going on[/B], stimulus has run its course and, on top of that, the "quantitative easing" and stimulus has flooded the economy with money - markets can see that. Lots of people are predicting serious inflation over by the end of 2012 (8 - 12%).[/quote]

But I thought we were giving tax breaks for rich..I mean "job creators" so they can create jobs? :doh:

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

Yeah i think markets were really looking for a debt deal with around 4 trillion in cuts, not a 1.2 trillion deal without any revenue increases or entitlement reform. S&P is prob gonna downgrade us debt within the next 6 months, moodys [I]might[/I] too. That combined with recent poor earnings and economic data makes for bad markets, and in this case real bad. I think qe3 is probably more of the boost to stock markets, a weak dollar and easy money is usually a positive to equities.

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

This is going to need to get moved to the politics forum real soon lol.

But yes, it's all Bush's fault. Funny Onion article today:

[url=http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-turns-50-despite-republican-opposition,21061/]Obama Turns 50 Despite Republican Opposition | The Onion - America's Finest News Source[/url]

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

So what does this mean? Is this a double dip recession?

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[quote=hooskins;820113]This is going to need to get moved to the politics forum real soon lol.

But yes, it's all Bush's fault. Funny Onion article today:

[url=http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-turns-50-despite-republican-opposition,21061/]Obama Turns 50 Despite Republican Opposition | The Onion - America's Finest News Source[/url][/quote]

Yeah I suppose I should put it there

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[quote=Dirtbag59;820117]So what does this mean? Is this a double dip recession?[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ive heard a lot of things from completely partisan resources this week and largely the consencious is the likelihood of another recession in the near term is unlikely. Markets may be considered leading indicators but they are ususaly overly speculative. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Although i did hear yesterday that 70% or so of Americans still think were in a recession. So to most it doesnt really matter, theyre still hurting if we are technically in one or not.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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[quote=mlmpetert;820133][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ive heard a lot of things from completely partisan resources this week and largely the consencious is the likelihood of another recession in the near term is unlikely. Markets may be considered leading indicators but they are ususaly overly speculative. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Although i did hear yesterday that 70% or so of Americans still think were in a recession. So to most it doesnt really matter, theyre still hurting if we are technically in one or not.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Either way something needs to be done to encourage firms to start hiring again. No one is going to go anywhere if companies keep hoarding cash. For better or worse it looks like Obama is going to loose reelection.

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[quote=Ruhskins;820094]But I thought we were giving tax breaks for rich..I mean "job creators" so they can create jobs? :doh:[/quote]


Would raising taxes on the evil rich make things better right now?

[quote]
Either way something needs to be done to encourage firms to start hiring again. No one is going to go anywhere if companies keep hoarding cash. For better or worse it looks like Obama is going to loose reelection.

[/quote]

Yeah Obama is on the outside looking in unless the economy is in much better shape then now come 2012

Also i heard this yesterday. What if we made the corporate tax rate zero but offset it by making the tax rates on capital gains and qualified dividens equal to individual's income tax rate and maybe even raise the top tax rate a little on those [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]disgusting r[/FONT][/COLOR]ich people. US corporate taxes are the highest in the world (prob the most complicated too) and are equal to only 15% of the total the IRS collects. Im sure that would attract new businesses and maybe spur production a little bit too.

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Obama said we need to focus on creating jobs. Well what the hell was that 800 billion spent on? I have no problem with hitting the rich with higher taxes as long as we make other cuts to go along with them.

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What I don't understand is the unwillingness to cut tax loopholes like the oil subsidies and private jet tax credit.

It always seems the message is the free market knows best, but don't mess with our sacred cows that are propped up.

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[quote=drew54;820168]What I don't understand is the unwillingness to cut tax loopholes like the oil subsidies and private jet tax credit.

It always seems the message is the free market knows best, but don't mess with our sacred cows that are propped up.[/quote]

I only know so much about this, but a lot of people want to hit a lot the corporations with heavy taxes which from a basic economic standpoint makes little sense. First it raises prices in an economy where many are either unemployed or underemployed. Then it encourages these companies that could be providing jobs to pack up and leave all together for more tax friendly countries.

There needs to be a more amicable solution then just going hard at the corporations with taxes. Only thing I can think of is tax breaks for companies that hired unemployed workers. Make it worth their while.

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This great...I got extra money laying around amd now I have a place to put them. Everything is on sale....buy buy buy!

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[quote=saden1;820303]This great...I got extra money laying around amd now I have a place to put them. Everything is on sale....buy buy buy![/quote]

?? drunk thread maybe?

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[quote=GMScud;820308]?? drunk thread maybe?[/quote]

No, it's called Value Investing Strategy...one of the pillars of investing is to buy more when the stock price of solid companies drop. It makes sense plus it doesn't hurt that Warren Buffet uses this strategy.

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[quote=Ruhskins;820094]But I thought we were giving tax breaks for rich..I mean "job creators" so they can create jobs? :doh:[/quote]

Well, we certainly aren't getting hired by poor people are we?

The job creators will create jobs only if it fits their business model. Most Americans don't seem to understand this. There's this notion that if you're wealthy, it's your natural patriotic duty to give up that money in the form hiring someone.

The job of a corporation/business is to remain profitable for their shareholders. That's it. It isn't their job to provide employment. In fact, if somebody runs the numbers and finds that operations can still be successful while reducing labor costs, hiring will stop and the workforce might be trimmed. On the other hand, if it's determined that it would be more profitable to expand services/operations, then you'll see more hiring.

If the rich are fearful that the government is set to confiscate even more of their money, which is what's scheduled to happen at the end of 2012 when the Bush tax cuts expire, you'll see timid, temporary hiring at best.

Now, if government would just get the hell out of the way, stop threatening the risk-takers, entrepreneurs, ... the "job creators" ... by taking more of their money, and instead adopted the policy of allowing people to keep more of what they earn and let them be as wildly successful as they can, then that's an economic environment we'd all want to be in.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;820173]I only know so much about this, but a lot of people want to hit a lot the corporations with heavy taxes which from a basic economic standpoint makes little sense. First it raises prices in an economy where many are either unemployed or underemployed. Then it encourages these companies that could be providing jobs to pack up and leave all together for more tax friendly countries.

There needs to be a more amicable solution then just going hard at the corporations with taxes. Only thing I can think of is tax breaks for companies that hired unemployed workers. Make it worth their while.[/quote]


I was thinking more along the lines of all of these tax incentives that are unnecessary. Do you really need a $7,000 credit to go buy an electric car. If you cannot afford the car don't buy it. Do oil companies need an incentive to drill for oil? Do people who want to fly on a private jet need an incentive to own one? I would much rather see that money go into fixing the highway I have to drive to work on every day. Except not fixing those pot holes is a stimulus plan for suspension and tire manufactures.

I agree the main problem is that there is no incentive to keep jobs in the US right now. Lower taxes for the top individual bracket alone is not going to do that. Better corporate taxes might.

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[quote=Beemnseven;820319]Well, we certainly aren't getting hired by poor people are we?

The job creators will create jobs only if it fits their business model. Most Americans don't seem to understand this. There's this notion that if you're wealthy, it's your natural patriotic duty to give up that money in the form hiring someone.

The job of a corporation/business is to remain profitable for their shareholders. That's it. It isn't their job to provide employment. In fact, if somebody runs the numbers and finds that operations can still be successful while reducing labor costs, hiring will stop and the workforce might be trimmed. On the other hand, if it's determined that it would be more profitable to expand services/operations, then you'll see more hiring.

If the rich are fearful that the government is set to confiscate even more of their money, which is what's scheduled to happen at the end of 2012 when the Bush tax cuts expire, you'll see timid, temporary hiring at best.

Now, if government would just get the hell out of the way, stop threatening the risk-takers, entrepreneurs, ... the "job creators" ... by taking more of their money, and instead adopted the policy of allowing people to keep more of what they earn and let them be as wildly successful as they can, then that's an economic environment we'd all want to be in.[/quote]Great post. I would add the increased regulatory burden and the effects Obamacare will have when its fully implemented are major factors in keeping businesses on the sidelines until after 2012. If Obama is re-elected, it will extend the malaise another 4 years.

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[quote=drew54;820340]I was thinking more along the lines of all of these tax incentives that are unnecessary. Do you really need a $7,000 credit to go buy an electric car. If you cannot afford the car don't buy it. Do oil companies need an incentive to drill for oil? Do people who want to fly on a private jet need an incentive to own one? I would much rather see that money go into fixing the highway I have to drive to work on every day. Except not fixing those pot holes is a stimulus plan for suspension and tire manufactures.

I agree the main problem is that there is no incentive to keep jobs in the US right now. Lower taxes for the top individual bracket alone is not going to do that. Better corporate taxes might.[/quote]Check out the FairTax.
- Eliminates corp taxes (brings US business back from off-shore, brings foreign business here)
- Everyone keeps their full paycheck
- underground economy is taxed (all unreported income)
- significantly reduces (almost eliminates) the IRS
- simplifies the tax code (you don't need HR Block, etc to do your taxes...you don't do taxes)
- eliminates all tax loopholes provide by Congress to pet constituencies

[URL="http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer"]Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation[/URL]

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;820344]Great post. I would add the increased regulatory burden and the effects Obamacare will have when its fully implemented are major factors in keeping businesses on the sidelines until after 2012. If Obama is re-elected, it will extend the malaise another 4 years.[/quote]

Interesting that you site regulation. Like, what industries have been "over regulated" under this administration? And what tangible data do we have to suggest that it's keeping employers from hiring.

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The Chinese work for 10 cents a day. Short of going back in time there is nothing America can do to compete with that.

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[quote=12thMan;820351]Interesting that you site regulation. Like, what industries have been "overrugulated" under this administration? And what tangible data do we have to suggest that it's keping employers from hiring.[/quote]

LOL...You noticed that too? I don't seem to remember corporate america and small business orgs fighting the law.

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Glad to see the good news about the job market. I'm not trying to be political, I'm just glad something positive about the economy has happened.

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Unfortunately, this is very political. The state of our economy and it's pending recovery is centered around our politics and our ability (or inability) to come up with a solution. It's not just the employment numbers and other economic data driving global uncertainty, but the uncertainty coming out of Washington and whether or not our lawmakers can find common ground and signal to the world that we're not going to let the ship sink. No one really liked the debt deal. It's nearly economicaly impossible to prime the economy through austerity measures.

The recent debt ceiling fight left all political players badly wounded and people are now asking how to do we get from here to there if there are no more tools in the toolbox. The Fed is out of bullets, the White House can't/won't get any sizable economic package through this Congress. So it's really wait and see from here on out. I guess economy heal thyself will be the new theme coming out of Washington.

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

[quote=12thMan;820364]Unfortunately, this is very political. The state of our economy and it's pending recovery is centered around our politics and our ability (or inability) to come up with a solution. It's not just the employment numbers and other economic data driving global uncertainty, but the uncertainty coming out of Washington and whether or not our lawmakers can find common ground and signal to the world that we're not going to let the ship sink. No one really liked the debt deal. It's nearly economicaly impossible to prime the economy through austerity measures.

The recent debt ceiling fight left all political players badly wounded and people are asking how to do we get from here to there if there are no more tools in the toolbox. The Fed is out of bullets, the White House can't/won't get any sizable economic package through this Congress. So it's really wait and see from here on out. I guess economy heal thyself will be the new theme coming out of Washington.[/quote]

Good points. I meant to say that I wasn't being political with my statement. I'm just glad to get some type of good news. It seems that for the past couple of weeks any news about the economy was bad and depressing.

Re: Dow Drops More Than 500 Points
 

[quote=12thMan;820364]Unfortunately, this is very political. The state of our economy and it's pending recovery is centered around our politics and our ability (or inability) to come up with a solution. It's not just the employment numbers and other economic data driving global uncertainty, but the uncertainty coming out of Washington and whether or not our lawmakers can find common ground and signal to the world that we're not going to let the ship sink. No one really liked the debt deal. It's nearly economicaly impossible to prime the economy through austerity measures.

The recent debt ceiling fight left all political players badly wounded and people are now asking how to do we get from here to there if there are no more tools in the toolbox. The Fed is out of bullets, the White House can't/won't get any sizable economic package through this Congress. So it's really wait and see from here on out. I guess economy heal thyself will be the new theme coming out of Washington.[/quote]

Republicans championed gridlock and they got it.

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[quote=12thMan;820351]Interesting that you site regulation. Like, what industries have been "over regulated" under this administration? And what tangible data do we have to suggest that it's keeping employers from hiring.[/quote]


[url=http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/578920/201107201835/Marcus-Home-Truths-On-Jobs.aspx]Home Depot Co-Founder: Obama Is Choking Recovery - Investors.com[/url]

Just one guys opinion but this seems to be the way small business owners and large corporations feel. There is SO MUCH uncertainity coming out of Washington no body wants to do anything but, like dirtbag said, hoard cash. If youre a ceo and your number one job is to protect shareholders its the fiscially responsible thing to do.

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[quote=mlmpetert;820391][url=http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/578920/201107201835/Marcus-Home-Truths-On-Jobs.aspx]Home Depot Co-Founder: Obama Is Choking Recovery - Investors.com[/url]

Just one guys opinion but this seems to be the way small business owners and large corporations feel. There is SO MUCH uncertainity coming out of Washington no body wants to do anything but, like dirtbag said, hoard cash. If youre a ceo and your number one job is to protect shareholders its the fiscially responsible thing to do.[/quote]

This is not just one man's opinion, it's the opinion of a life long Republican hack' who doesn't want you to know that the Obama stimulus is the only thing that has been keeping his company afloat and Wall Street from gutting it during these rough times.


Keep it real homie.

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[quote=saden1;820309]No, it's called Value Investing Strategy...one of the pillars of investing is to buy more when the stock price of solid companies drop. It makes sense plus it doesn't hurt that Warren Buffet uses this strategy.[/quote]

Yep. Buy low, sell high.

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Here's are some facts on what the president is doing to deal with onerous government regulation. Keep in mind, this was ordered at the beginning of the year but here we are almost 8 months later and people are still parrotting talking points that business is uncertain because of too much government regulation. It's just not true.

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-18/obama-orders-regulation-review-to-boost-growth-wsj-reports.html]Obama Orders Regulation Review to Boost U.S. Growth - Bloomberg[/url]

Another article from another source.

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028731-503544.html]Obama Orders Review of All Government Regulations - Political Hotsheet - CBS News[/url]

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[quote=Schneed10;820402]Yep. Buy low, sell high.[/quote]

Wow!!! Wish I had thought of that.

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Crazy sh*t!!

Any Warpath traders out there?

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[quote=saden1;820309]No, it's called Value Investing Strategy...one of the pillars of investing is to buy more when the stock price of solid companies drop. It makes sense plus it doesn't hurt that Warren Buffet uses this strategy.[/quote]

Yeah I get that. Your post read like a drunk man, that's all I was saying. All good.

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Meanwhile in Washington:
[IMG]http://worldfamousdesignjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/610x-500x332.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/obama_birthday_400x333.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LgRaAYr1JoI/Tfa8CmrQmrI/AAAAAAAABlg/iVrpfelJBCU/s1600/obama_laughing_.jpg[/IMG]

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Obama may be screwed. Right or wrong the perception amongst the business community is that Obama and his administration are very anti-business. His mere presence as POTUS now is one of the main causes of the businesses who have been hoarding cash not letting go of it.

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I think you may be onto something. There is a bit of a perception, how deep and widespread is anyone's guess. Still, Wall Street is rolling along and donating big bucks to his campaign. So much of his perception, as with all things good and bad with Obama, are exagerated and overstated.

Since he has appointed Bill Daley as his Chief of Staff and Jeff Imelt earlier this year, relationships with the business community have thawed some. But for anyone to point to actual policy and say that this administration is stifling growth, isn't based in hard facts, but rather opinion and commentary. Which is fine, just take it for what it is.

In short, President Obama is the worst socialist this country has ever seen.

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[quote=12thMan;820493]I think you may be onto something. There is a bit of a perception, how deep and widespread is anyone's guess. Still, Wall Street is rolling along and donating big bucks to his campaign. So much of his perception, as with all things good and bad with Obama, are exagerated and overstated.

Since he has appointed Bill Daley as his Chief of Staff and Jeff Imelt earlier this year, relationships with the business community have thawed some. [B]But for anyone to point to actual policy and say that this administration is stifling growth, isn't based in hard facts, but rather opinion and commentary.[/B] Which is fine, just take it for what it is.

[B]In short, President Obama is the worst socialist this country has ever seen[/B].[/quote]

Opinion and commentary from some unlikely sources now too:

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/04/obama-pivot-to-jobs_n_918902.html]Obama's 'Pivot' To Jobs: The Deja Vu Reel (VIDEO)[/url]

Someone hacked your account, btw

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[quote=12thMan;820493]I think you may be onto something. There is a bit of a perception, how deep and widespread is anyone's guess. Still, Wall Street is rolling along and donating big bucks to his campaign. So much of his perception, as with all things good and bad with Obama, are exagerated and overstated.

Since he has appointed Bill Daley as his Chief of Staff and Jeff Imelt earlier this year, relationships with the business community have thawed some. But for anyone to point to actual policy and say that this administration is stifling growth, isn't based in hard facts, but rather opinion and commentary. Which is fine, just take it for what it is.

In short, President Obama is the worst socialist this country has ever seen.[/quote]

What Obama and his administration are, apparently, is shockingly inept at communicating and framing discussions. Either that or those like you, who believe he isn't necessarily stifling growth, are naive. That's not an accusation but more of a logical observation. Either he sucks and is stifling growth or he isn't. Considering his generally likability and a relatively forgiving media I can't understand how he is able to do such a good job but no one, outside of his diehards, perceive that he is. Why do you think that is?