Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

-Excited about 2011, wants to stay in DC... Wants to pick up where left off.
-Says Beck is under the radar and is promoting himself, says while there no practice he might as well promote himself.
-QB situation will work itself out, he's not worried about Beck being the starter going in to camp.
-Quick passes and deep game suit him, calls system pretty easy, few protection calls, fast break game plan, high pace.
-Says offense is predicated off of the run, lots of big plays available, Schaub ran it perfectly which he saw and is very comfortable with it, calls it best offensive scheme in the game.
-Was surprised he was inserted in Detroit game but it was brewing for a while.
-Didn't expect to get any starts when they signed him but he stayed ready. A lot went on behind the scenes, wouldn't talk about what, but he said you could see McNabb benching coming at the end of the season.
-It will be strange if he's not a Redskin in 2011. Lots of reps in player workouts, guys are in shape and ready to go.
-Likes the team, likes the system, wants to be here. Decent chance he will be back.
-Kyle wants and expects precision, down to the amount of hitches to take thru progressions. Wants it practiced that way so it's natural. (probably led to McNabb issues)
-Coaches really like Torrain, likes K. Williams. Expects Torrain to start over rookies.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

Thanks for the highlights

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

How does he feel about the War on Drugs?

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

Good Stuff, thanks for the cliff notes.
[quote=Dirtbag59;805792]How does he feel about the War on Drugs?[/quote]

Rex: How can you call it a war? Wars end.

Thanks dude

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

D McNabb really burned some bridges here somehow

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;805810]D McNabb really burned some bridges here somehow[/quote]

They tried to get him to spill the beans but he sidestepped the question quickly, unlike how he does oncoming pass rushers.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

Good stuff Paintrain. Thanks.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

thanks for posting. Rex seems like a good guy, and a true professional. Maybe he's at a point in his career where things will click for him, but based on his past, here & Chicago, I'm still not much excited about the prospect of him as starting qb.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=NM Redskin;805804]Good Stuff, thanks for the cliff notes.


Rex: How can you call it a war? Wars end.[/quote]

The wire?

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;805810]D McNabb really burned some bridges here somehow[/quote]

I like Donovan but hearing what is being said about him now, co-incides with his criticisms over the years in Philly:

Lack of work ethic/bad practice habits
poor cardio/stamina in games
ego/image/primadonna issues


My mom is the biggest Philly fan i know, and she said to me Donovan was the reason why the eagles didnt re-sign Garcia after he had his monster season in 2006. she said he felt threatened by him especially after fans started saying they wanted JG to start in 2007 over Donovan...

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=Jontrem;805840]The wire?[/quote]

Sure sounded like it didn't it ?

Awesone show by the way.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;805867]I like Donovan but hearing what is being said about him now, co-incides with his criticisms over the years in Philly:

Lack of work ethic/bad practice habits
poor cardio/stamina in games
ego/image/primadonna issues


My mom is the biggest Philly fan i know, and she said to me Donovan was the reason why the eagles didnt re-sign Garcia after he had his monster season in 2006. she said he felt threatened by him especially after fans started saying they wanted JG to start in 2007 over Donovan...[/quote]

Most of my family are big Philly fans and I never heard them complain about ego/image/primadonna questions but the others I've heard as well.

What Grossman seemed to imply by his comments and hesitation to talk to the hosts that there was clear tension between Donovan and Kyle and his practice performance/habits were a big part of it. Rex emphasized in his tone that Kyle is very specific in what he expects from his QB and how his QB is supposed to execute it. When he said that Kyle is so specific to even the number of hitches as they go thru progressions I can see that being an issue with the way McNabb improvs. That would also seem to eliminate any thoughts of Vince Young because he's an improv QB as well.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;805872]Most of my family are big Philly fans and I never heard them complain about ego/image/primadonna questions but the others I've heard as well.

What Grossman seemed to imply by his comments and hesitation to talk to the hosts that there was clear tension between Donovan and Kyle and his practice performance/habits were a big part of it. Rex emphasized in his tone that Kyle is very specific in what he expects from his QB and how his QB is supposed to execute it. When he said that Kyle is so specific to even the number of hitches as they go thru progressions I can see that being an issue with the way McNabb improvs. That would also seem to eliminate any thoughts of Vince Young because he's an improv QB as well.[/quote]

Excellent interpretation of that...i took it to mean similar things, but knowing how Donovan is, I assumed that when he came here, he felt that being a big star he could be afforded to improv some and not work as hard, because they had let him get away with it in philly since they were winning...

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;805873]Excellent interpretation of that...i took it to mean similar things, but knowing how Donovan is, I assumed that when he came here, he felt that being a big star he could be afforded to improv some and not work as hard, because they had let him get away with it in philly since they were winning...[/quote]
Yeah, I can see that and combined with Cooley's comments last week on NFL Total Access that both parties were surprised at the learning curve of the offense I don't think McNabb was prepared to come in and be 'coached'. Reid did more coddling and yielding to what suited McNabb than Kyle did and I think that may have been a source of conflict as well. Mike and Kyle seem to be of the school of thought-'you are a pro, prepare and act like one' and McNabb may have been comfortable with getting by on talent and supporting cast. I won't be surprised to see him successful somewhere else in 2011 but he just wasn't a good fit with the Shanahans.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

We are talking about the same McNabb who had the most passes over 50 yds throughout the first half of the season in an offense that could barely find a spark in the ground game over the same duration. The same dude who threw for over 400 yds in a game against Houston in an offense that, according to the coaches, his grasp of was tenuous at best. 5 of his 14 games he threw for over, or on the cusp of 300 yds and only 2 of those 14 games did he throw for under 200 yds. This all did occur in his first season learning a new offense in which the reads and progessions that he had become so accustom to in Philly after 12 years in the same system were completely reversed. Sometimes we as Redskins fans can be a fickle bunch. Buying into the sensationalized bs that spans the radio, TV, and other online sports media outlets. It's about time we use a little citical thought to define our opinions about this team and what would be best for its prolonged success. There's no way you can convince me that Grossman is a better option then McNabb unless the competition happens to be, who would make the best human ball warmer.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805893]We are talking about the same McNabb who had the most passes over 50 yds throughout the first half of the season in an offense that could barely find a spark in the ground game over the same duration. The same dude who threw for over 400 yds in a game against Houston in an offense that, according to the coaches, his grasp of was tenuous at best. 5 of his 14 games he threw for over, or on the cusp of 300 yds and only 2 of those 14 games did he throw for under 200 yds. This all did occur in his first season learning a new offense in which the reads and progessions that he had become so accustom to in Philly after 12 years in the same system were completely reversed. Sometimes we as Redskins fans can be a fickle bunch. Buying into the sensationalized bs that spans the radio, TV, and other online sports media outlets. It's about time we use a little citical thought to define our opinions about this team and what would be best for its prolonged success. There's no way you can convince me that Grossman is a better option then McNabb unless the competition happens to be, who would make the best human ball warmer.[/quote]

Um, welcome to the board?

I don't think anyone went out of their way to say McNabb is a scrub or Grossman is a lost Manning but the evidence was pretty clear that the McNabb/Shanahan pairing wasn't a winner.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805893]We are talking about the same McNabb who had the most passes over 50 yds throughout the first half of the season in an offense that could barely find a spark in the ground game over the same duration. The same dude who threw for over 400 yds in a game against Houston in an offense that, according to the coaches, his grasp of was tenuous at best. 5 of his 14 games he threw for over, or on the cusp of 300 yds and only 2 of those 14 games did he throw for under 200 yds. This all did occur in his first season learning a new offense in which the reads and progessions that he had become so accustom to in Philly after 12 years in the same system were completely reversed. Sometimes we as Redskins fans can be a fickle bunch. Buying into the sensationalized bs that spans the radio, TV, and other online sports media outlets. It's about time we use a little citical thought to define our opinions about this team and what would be best for its prolonged success. There's no way you can convince me that Grossman is a better option then McNabb unless the competition happens to be, who would make the best human ball warmer.[/quote]

First off, welcome to the board!!

Donovan did not play well last year. Nobody can say that he did. He played mediocre, and sometimes below average. Sadly, that is what we are accustomed to with redskins QB's here, a standard that Jason Campbell beautifully lived up to. Say what you want, but the whole team performed better when Rex was in there. They looked dangerous against the cowboys.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805893]We are talking about the same McNabb who had the most passes over 50 yds throughout the first half of the season in an offense that could barely find a spark in the ground game over the same duration. The same dude who threw for over 400 yds in a game against Houston in an offense that, according to the coaches, his grasp of was tenuous at best. 5 of his 14 games he threw for over, or on the cusp of 300 yds and only 2 of those 14 games did he throw for under 200 yds. This all did occur in his first season learning a new offense in which the reads and progessions that he had become so accustom to in Philly after 12 years in the same system were completely reversed. Sometimes we as Redskins fans can be a fickle bunch. Buying into the sensationalized bs that spans the radio, TV, and other online sports media outlets. It's about time we use a little citical thought to define our opinions about this team and what would be best for its prolonged success. There's no way you can convince me that Grossman is a better option then McNabb unless the competition happens to be, who would make the best human ball warmer.[/quote]

The sensationalized BS has pretty much fallen squarely into the "McNabb was screwed, Mike Shanahan is a hack, Kyle Shanahan is a moron, everyone else on the team sucks" category. Pretty much no one is on the Shanahan's side in the media-at-large.

Yeah, he threw for a lot of yards. But...take the Texans game. He threw for over 400 yards against a pass defense that was the worse in the league. For comparison's sake, rookie quarterback Tim Tebow carved up the Texans secondary. That game was an abberation, and even then, he only threw for one touchdown, and couldn't close out the game with a score.

Most of the time he was throwing for that many yards because the team got down early and had to throw the football to get back in the game. That's why how many yards a quarterback throws for is a cruddy indicator of their overall in game performance. If you throw for 300 yards, but you only have one touchdown and one pick, then you're not really being effective.

He had a lot of passes over 50 yards, but even with that cannon of an arm of his, a lot of those throws were underthrown. How many times did we see Anthony Armstrong take the top off the defense and have no defenders around him, only for AA to have to come back to the ball or slide down to make the catch. Easy touchdowns if he makes the throw, but he doesn't.

And when the Redskins managed to go on length drives, he couldn't thrown touchdown scores. Everyone kept going on about needing taller receivers or running it or whatever...but pretty much every time Rex drove the Redskins into the red zone, the Redskins walked out of those situations with touchdowns.

Rex's four touchdown passes against Dallas were ALL in the red zone. Quarterbacks make their money on 1.) converting third downs and 2.) production in the red zone, meaning touchdowns. McNabb couldn't do either of those things. Some of it was what was around him, but a lot of it was him just not getting the ball out, or sometimes him only reading half the the field.

That pick he threw in the Tennessee game, where Joey Galloway actually managed to pop wide open? He's only reading half the field. He's reading right and doesn't even think to come back to the left until it's WAY too late.

It's the stuff like that that makes it clear that he was struggling, and it wasn't just a "he doesn't know the offense" thing. He had a whole training camp and thirteen games to get the offense down, and the only time he looked really comfortable with it was against Indianapolis.

It's not that Rex gives the team the best chance to win. It's that Donovan [i]doesn't[/i.]

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

Well said NLC

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;805876]Yeah, I can see that and combined with Cooley's comments last week on NFL Total Access that both parties were surprised at the learning curve of the offense I don't think McNabb was prepared to come in and be 'coached'. Reid did more coddling and yielding to what suited McNabb than Kyle did and I think that may have been a source of conflict as well. Mike and Kyle seem to be of the school of thought-'you are a pro, prepare and act like one' and McNabb may have been comfortable with getting by on talent and supporting cast. I won't be surprised to see him successful somewhere else in 2011 but he just wasn't a good fit with the Shanahans.[/quote]I like McNabb and I like Kyle.
I think Kyle could be an innovative mind in the passing game like McDaniels.
But, lets not forget [I]they[/I] chose McNabb.
They [I]traded[/I] for him.

If you traded for a pro-bowl talent then shouldn't at least some of the blame fall in their (Kyle's) lap for not suiting his strengths?
Afterall that's what coaches do, and in McNabb's case where there is a proven track of success and high level play shouldn't there be an even greater level adaption to suit him?


You have coaches that are getting production out of lesser talented QBs through coaching ala Gailey w/ Fitzpatrick or McDaniels (that prick) w/ Orton or even Zorn w/ Campbell. Yet Kyle has basically guided a pro-bowl QB to the worst season of their career; and most fans are ready to heap all the blame for McNabb's lack of success solely on McNabb.

Don't get me wrong McNabb didn't play well.
For whatever reason McNabb didn't play up to his own high standards, but the blame for his failing in Washington is a shared failing w/ Kyle.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

If Mike and Kyle pride themselves on having the innate ability to recognize and systemically implement QB talent why were these widely preexisting deficiencies in McNabb's game not addressed during the inception of the brianstorming sessions that ultimately led to them trading for him?

If recollection serves, although time does tend to distort perception, at the end of the Texans game McNabb threw a perfectly timed ball, in stride, over his left shoulder to Joey Galloway for a TD and the early microcosm for the entire season crept in and was abruptly stamped. DROP! As far as I'm concerned McNabb threw a game winning pass. What happened on the opposite end of the wire can not be anchored to McNabb, but instead belongs in the unwelcoming, arthritic palms of Galloway and possibly the mastermind who decided Galloway still had a couple gallons left in the tank.

Drops from Cooley. Drops from Moss. I can't remember the opponent but I distinctly recall Fred Davis dropping a TD pass. Armstrong was, at best, 60/40 in catchable targets with McNabb at the helm. All of those drops have to manifest themselves in some way. For us it was 3rd down conversion percentage.

I'll chalk up the mistimed long balls to McNabb's lack of comfortability with the timing of a new offense. The dude ran the same scheme his entire career before coming to the Redskins. The least you could give the guy is a single season grace period to become more entrenched and acclimated to timing with new receivers, an overall understanding of the system and whats expected of him in terms of progression so he is playing without thinking. Reading deep to short as opposed to short to deep. Bad habits die hard and I believe that was a major contributor to McNabb's inconsitency.

I understand it's a "win now" league, but regardless of that nomenclature we haven't been able to manipulate, from the FO down, that famous football colloquialism. So I suggest patience as a possible solution and I get chastised because of a simple indepentant belief that McNabb dosen't give us the best chance to win. Grossman was somewhat effective in the limited action he accumulated. His completion percentage was average and he threw 4 ints in 3 games. He also lost 3 out of 4 games in which he could have been a determining factor in the outcome. And yes I'm including the benching and fumble return for a TD in Detroit. The single game that he won was decided in overtime. I agree that McNabb isn't the QB that gives us the best chance to win league wide, but on our roster to date, in my opinion, he is, unquestionably, the best QB currently employed by the Washington Redskins and between Beck, Grossman, and McNabb I believe McNabb does gives us the best chance to win.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=30gut;805931]I like McNabb and I like Kyle.
I think Kyle could be an innovative mind in the passing game like McDaniels.
But, lets not forget [I]they[/I] chose McNabb.
They [I]traded[/I] for him.

If you traded for a pro-bowl talent then shouldn't at least some of the blame fall in their (Kyle's) lap for not suiting his strengths?
Afterall that's what coaches do, and in McNabb's case where there is a proven track of success and high level play shouldn't there be an even greater level adaption to suit him?


You have coaches that are getting production out of lesser talented QBs through coaching ala Gailey w/ Fitzpatrick or McDaniels (that prick) w/ Orton or even Zorn w/ Campbell. Yet Kyle has basically guided a pro-bowl QB to the worst season of their career; and most fans are ready to heap all the blame for McNabb's lack of success solely on McNabb.

Don't get me wrong McNabb didn't play well.
For whatever reason McNabb didn't play up to his own high standards, but the blame for his failing in Washington is a shared failing w/ Kyle.[/quote]

Well, in fairness to Kyle all indications are that the move to get McNabb was against his wishes and something he had openly stated before they traded for him he didn't think would work

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805962]Well, in fairness to Kyle all indications are that the move to get McNabb was against his wishes and something he had openly stated before they traded for him he didn't think would work[/quote]

Which makes me wonder if Kyle was faster to throw up his hands with McNabb than he would have been with another guy. Not saying McNabb was the man for the job, just wondering if it was doomed to fail before it even began?

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;805964]Which makes me wonder if Kyle was faster to throw up his hands with McNabb than he would have been with another guy. Not saying McNabb was the man for the job, just wondering if it was doomed to fail before it even began?[/quote]

Yeah, that's a good point. Could be

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805960]If Mike and Kyle pride themselves on having the innate ability to recognize and systemically implement QB talent why were these widely preexisting deficiencies in McNabb's game not addressed during the inception of the brianstorming sessions that ultimately led to them trading for him?

If recollection serves, although time does tend to distort perception, at the end of the Texans game McNabb threw a perfectly timed ball, in stride, over his left shoulder to Joey Galloway for a TD and the early microcosm for the entire season crept in and was abruptly stamped. DROP! As far as I'm concerned McNabb threw a game winning pass. What happened on the opposite end of the wire can not be anchored to McNabb, but instead belongs in the unwelcoming, arthritic palms of Galloway and possibly the mastermind who decided Galloway still had a couple gallons left in the tank.

Drops from Cooley. Drops from Moss. I can't remember the opponent but I distinctly recall Fred Davis dropping a TD pass. Armstrong was, at best, 60/40 in catchable targets with McNabb at the helm. All of those drops have to manifest themselves in some way. For us it was 3rd down conversion percentage.

I'll chalk up the mistimed long balls to McNabb's lack of comfortability with the timing of a new offense. The dude ran the same scheme his entire career before coming to the Redskins. The least you could give the guy is a single season grace period to become more entrenched and acclimated to timing with new receivers, an overall understanding of the system and whats expected of him in terms of progression so he is playing without thinking. Reading deep to short as opposed to short to deep. Bad habits die hard and I believe that was a major contributor to McNabb's inconsitency.

I understand it's a "win now" league, but regardless of that nomenclature we haven't been able to manipulate, from the FO down, that famous football colloquialism. So I suggest patience as a possible solution and I get chastised because of a simple indepentant belief that McNabb dosen't give us the best chance to win. Grossman was somewhat effective in the limited action he accumulated. His completion percentage was average and he threw 4 ints in 3 games. He also lost 3 out of 4 games in which he could have been a determining factor in the outcome. And yes I'm including the benching and fumble return for a TD in Detroit. The single game that he won was decided in overtime. I agree that McNabb isn't the QB that gives us the best chance to win league wide, but on our roster to date, in my opinion, he is, unquestionably, the best QB currently employed by the Washington Redskins and between Beck, Grossman, and McNabb I believe McNabb does gives us the best chance to win.[/quote]

McNabb's situation seems similiar to Haynesworth's. Guys say and do all the right things during the interviewing process and the first few weeks of being on board, then their hair is let down...

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=diehard;805982]McNabb's situation seems similiar to Haynesworth's. Guys say and do all the right things during the interviewing process and the first few weeks of being on board, then their hair is let down...[/quote]

Yes but in both situations there were warning signs that should have alerted the front office about what they were about to get. Haynesworth, while a dominant DT, had a history of character issues and other problems that showed up later on as expected. With McNabb, the fact that the Eagles were willing to trade him to a division rival should have been a warning sign. Not to mention the fact that the McNabb trade was the same bad habit that the previous FO had (giving up picks on veterans). I hope the FO has learned its lesson...I hope.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805960]If Mike and Kyle pride themselves on having the innate ability to recognize and systemically implement QB talent why were these widely preexisting deficiencies in McNabb's game not addressed during the inception of the brianstorming sessions that ultimately led to them trading for him?

If recollection serves, although time does tend to distort perception, at the end of the Texans game McNabb threw a perfectly timed ball, in stride, over his left shoulder to Joey Galloway for a TD and the early microcosm for the entire season crept in and was abruptly stamped. DROP! As far as I'm concerned McNabb threw a game winning pass. What happened on the opposite end of the wire can not be anchored to McNabb, but instead belongs in the unwelcoming, arthritic palms of Galloway and possibly the mastermind who decided Galloway still had a couple gallons left in the tank.

Drops from Cooley. Drops from Moss. I can't remember the opponent but I distinctly recall Fred Davis dropping a TD pass. Armstrong was, at best, 60/40 in catchable targets with McNabb at the helm. All of those drops have to manifest themselves in some way. For us it was 3rd down conversion percentage.

I'll chalk up the mistimed long balls to McNabb's lack of comfortability with the timing of a new offense. The dude ran the same scheme his entire career before coming to the Redskins. The least you could give the guy is a single season grace period to become more entrenched and acclimated to timing with new receivers, an overall understanding of the system and whats expected of him in terms of progression so he is playing without thinking. Reading deep to short as opposed to short to deep. Bad habits die hard and I believe that was a major contributor to McNabb's inconsitency.

I understand it's a "win now" league, but regardless of that nomenclature we haven't been able to manipulate, from the FO down, that famous football colloquialism. So I suggest patience as a possible solution and I get chastised because of a simple indepentant belief that McNabb dosen't give us the best chance to win. Grossman was somewhat effective in the limited action he accumulated. His completion percentage was average and he threw 4 ints in 3 games. He also lost 3 out of 4 games in which he could have been a determining factor in the outcome. And yes I'm including the benching and fumble return for a TD in Detroit. The single game that he won was decided in overtime. I agree that McNabb isn't the QB that gives us the best chance to win league wide, but on our roster to date, in my opinion, he is, unquestionably, the best QB currently employed by the Washington Redskins and between Beck, Grossman, and McNabb I believe McNabb does gives us the best chance to win.[/quote]

But all indications were that it wasn't just the on the field stuff. I'm not chastising you, I'm just saying, it's not just the team around him. It's not just the drops.

It was the way he played, but probably more so, it was the way he acted. If you know Mike Shanahan, you know how big a deal practice is to him, that he's a no hit guy who takes care of his players, but he wants the tempo of practice to be good as well.

He spoke of having those days in practice where the ball never hit the ground. All indications are that they never had that. Then there's issues with him coming out either last or [i]late[/i] for practice. Than there's the wristband stuff that's pretty much been widely confirmed by anyone who has a source in the building.

So it seems to me that Mike Shanahan (and Mike alone; as someone pointed out, Kyle didn't think he'd be a good fit in the offense and was against the trade to begin with) thought he was getting one player, and ended up with another. He thought he was getting a consummate pro, the hardest worker on the team, and a playmaker that had all things he wanted.

What he seemed to get was a slightly image conscious, kinda lazy (or at least not up to Shanahan's standards) quarterback who benefited greatly from being in a system in which Andy Reid allowed him to improvise more than he was required to be precise, and despite having a lot of time to get better, he either couldn't process it or didn't put the work in to do it.

I also don't really buy that Kyle didn't do enough to try and maximize what Donovan was good at. All these screen passes and the checkdowns to the running backs seem like it was "give him a high read, a low read, and then a checkdown". That's pretty much what they ran with him in Philly.

It was a mutual thing, this whole nasty break up. But Donovan had his fair share of problems, and it wasn't all drops by wide receivers. I think anyone will tell you that it's hard to catch a football that's thrown at your knees.

If anything, keeping Donovan despite all the problems would be more of a "win now" move than seeing what they have in John Beck and Rex. Best case scenario, they have a quarterback that can right the ship while they replenish positions of need on the team. Worst case, they just draft a quarterback next year.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;805893]We are talking about the same McNabb who had the most passes over 50 yds throughout the first half of the season in an offense that could barely find a spark in the ground game over the same duration. The same dude who threw for over 400 yds in a game against Houston in an offense that, according to the coaches, his grasp of was tenuous at best. 5 of his 14 games he threw for over, or on the cusp of 300 yds and only 2 of those 14 games did he throw for under 200 yds. This all did occur in his first season learning a new offense in which the reads and progessions that he had become so accustom to in Philly after 12 years in the same system were completely reversed. Sometimes we as Redskins fans can be a fickle bunch. Buying into the sensationalized bs that spans the radio, TV, and other online sports media outlets. It's about time we use a little citical thought to define our opinions about this team and what would be best for its prolonged success. There's no way you can convince me that Grossman is a better option then McNabb unless the competition happens to be, who would make the best human ball warmer.[/quote]

[than] has become non-existent in todays vocabulary.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[QUOTE=NLC1054;805993]But all indications were that it wasn't just the on the field stuff. I'm not chastising you, I'm just saying, it's not just the team around him. It's not just the drops.

It was the way he played, but probably more so, it was the way he acted. If you know Mike Shanahan, you know how big a deal practice is to him, that he's a no hit guy who takes care of his players, but he wants the tempo of practice to be good as well.

He spoke of having those days in practice where the ball never hit the ground. All indications are that they never had that. Then there's issues with him coming out either last or [i]late[/i] for practice. Than there's the wristband stuff that's pretty much been widely confirmed by anyone who has a source in the building.

So it seems to me that Mike Shanahan (and Mike alone; as someone pointed out, Kyle didn't think he'd be a good fit in the offense and was against the trade to begin with) thought he was getting one player, and ended up with another. He thought he was getting a consummate pro, the hardest worker on the team, and a playmaker that had all things he wanted.

What he seemed to get was a slightly image conscious, kinda lazy (or at least not up to Shanahan's standards) quarterback who benefited greatly from being in a system in which Andy Reid allowed him to improvise more than he was required to be precise, and despite having a lot of time to get better, he either couldn't process it or didn't put the work in to do it.

I also don't really buy that Kyle didn't do enough to try and maximize what Donovan was good at. All these screen passes and the checkdowns to the running backs seem like it was "give him a high read, a low read, and then a checkdown". That's pretty much what they ran with him in Philly.

It was a mutual thing, this whole nasty break up. But Donovan had his fair share of problems, and it wasn't all drops by wide receivers. I think anyone will tell you that it's hard to catch a football that's thrown at your knees.

If anything, keeping Donovan despite all the problems would be more of a "win now" move than seeing what they have in John Beck and Rex. Best case scenario, they have a quarterback that can right the ship while they replenish positions of need on the team. Worst case, they just draft a quarterback next year.[/QUOTE]


Some players are gamers, others are diligent workers that have to supplement their lack of natural talent with a solid practice regiment and endless hours of film study in order to assert a mental edge over their opponent. Occationally you find that perfect symbiosis of guys who have both, but it is a rarity. Granted McNabb did not meet Fam Shanahan's expectation as a hard worker on the practice field and in the film room. Perhaps his lack of commitment in those areas, when the lights are off, is the reason why he's not the proud owner of a superbowl ring, but it's undeniable that he has created a lasting legacy in this league playing his way.

I think that there is a vast difference between designed screens, which is what Philly did with McNabb under center and reading high to low and making a checkdown. The designed screen really didn't emerge as a staple in Kyle's play calling until well into the season. Which would suggest that he wasn't doing everything in his power to allow McNabb and the entire offense for that matter to succeed with the weapons they had a their disposal. You would hope as a fan that the adaptation to a screen game to supplement the lack of rushing attack would have occured much earlier in the season. It was always my understanding that the progession for McNabb in Philly was low-intermediate-high and not the other way around.

The point I was attempting to make with the "win now" statement is that after a decade of poor football from this Redskins organization you would think that they would be a slightly more patient than 13 games with their big name acquisitions. I was not suggesting that we give less athletically gifted players the opportunity to start as opposed to trying to win football games with the best players on our roster. That would be absurd. It was more of a "allow your newest acquistions to florish in a new system without prematurely pulling the plug" philosophy.

If Mike's initial intension was to trade for McNabb, play him a single season, then use him as trade bait for a future draft pick, I would have said it's not the greatest way to accumulate draft picks, but atleast it's forward thinking. Instead what they've done is defame the character and devalue the trade potential of a player who, had you allowed him to play the entire season, might have yeilded a future 3rd round pick. This whole approah is fundamentally flawed.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;806069]The point I was attempting to make with the "win now" statement is that after a decade of poor football from this Redskins organization you would think that they would be a slightly more patient than 13 games with their big name acquisitions. I was not suggesting that we give less athletically gifted players the opportunity to start as opposed to trying to win football games with the best players on our roster. That would be absurd. It was more of a "allow your newest acquistions to florish in a new system without prematurely pulling the plug" philosophy.

If Mike's initial intension was to trade for McNabb, play him a single season, then use him as trade bait for a future draft pick, I would have said it's not the greatest way to accumulate draft picks, but atleast it's forward thinking. Instead what they've done is defame the character and devalue the trade potential of a player who, had you allowed him to play the entire season, might have yeilded a future 3rd round pick. This whole approah is fundamentally flawed.[/quote]

MS should have never traded for McNabb period. I know that it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but he should've stuck to rebuilding (as they seem to be doing now). I still don't understand why MS would do something (trading picks away for a veteran past his prime), that symbolized the dysfunctional front office that this team had for the past decade, in his first year. I think that the team would be in better rebuilding phase right now if they had kept those draft picks given up for McNabb.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=Ruhskins;806086]MS should have never traded for McNabb period. I know that it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but he should've stuck to rebuilding (as they seem to be doing now). I still don't understand why MS would do something (trading picks away for a veteran past his prime), that symbolized the dysfunctional front office that this team had for the past decade, in his first year. I think that the team would be in better rebuilding phase right now if they had kept those draft picks given up for McNabb.[/quote]

It was a sort of dumb move. I think this was the one case of Mike buying into the guy before he bought into the player. He figured he could fix the player the way he "fixed" other veteran guys like Bubby Brister and Gus Ferrotte and Jake Plummer and the like.

Well, he couldn't. I mean, it makes sense; he thought Donovan could bring some stability to the position and to the football team and be the leader that everyone says he is. It's easy to say it was a bad decision in hindsight, but at th etime, for the player we all thought he was going to be, the move made since.

You can rebuild the team around Donovan for the rest of his career, then hand a ready made contender to a new quarterback when he hangs it up.

There's logic in it. Just it didn't work as we as anyone hoped.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=Ruhskins;806086]MS should have never traded for McNabb period. I know that it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but he should've stuck to rebuilding (as they seem to be doing now). I still don't understand why MS would do something (trading picks away for a veteran past his prime), that symbolized the dysfunctional front office that this team had for the past decade, in his first year. I think that the team would be in better rebuilding phase right now if they had kept those draft picks given up for McNabb.[/quote]

There were serveral highly suspect decisions made by MS this year and they began early in his tenure here. The Haynesworth fiasco, Larry Johnson making the 53 man roster only to be cut after week 2, keeping Galloway in the starting lineup until mid season, benching McNabb for an ice cold Rex Grossman in the 2 min drill against Detroit only to sign him to an extension 2 weeks later, and now destroying McNabb's trade potential. Don't get me wrong. I like Mike as a coach and I believe if ownership isn't as impulsive as they've been in the past, he can again restore a consistant winning mentality in Washington, but so far his decisions have been erratic and peculiar. I just hope this doesn't become a trend.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=fanarchist;806092]There were serveral highly suspect decisions made by MS this year and they began early in his tenure here. The Haynesworth fiasco, Larry Johnson making the 53 man roster only to be cut after week 2, keeping Galloway in the starting lineup until mid season, benching McNabb for an ice cold Rex Grossman in the 2 min drill against Detroit only to sign him to an extension 2 weeks later, and now destroying McNabb's trade potential. Don't get me wrong. I like Mike as a coach and I believe if ownership isn't as impulsive as they've been in the past, he can again restore a consistant winning mentality in Washington, but so far his decisions have been erratic and peculiar. I just hope this doesn't become a trend.[/quote]

No question there were some questionable moves made but at the same time, it's pretty clear that Shanny isn't afraid to admit and rectify mistakes along the way. Case in point, he cut LJ, cut Willie Parker, cut Galloway, suspended Haynesworth, ultimately benched McNabb and started playing younger players. Then in the draft rather than go for the flashy pick in Gabbert he traded back and back and back to pick 12 players. Rather than focusing on the problems, look at the progress.

As for McNabb/Kyle, it was oil and water from the beginning. There was a dramatic difference in offensive efficiency starting in the 2nd half of the Cowboys game, thru the Jacksonville game and the Giants game. Human Turnover Machine Rex was pretty loose with the ball but from the standpoint of the offense 'working', I have no questions that Kyle is the right guy. McNabb was simply the wrong guy for the job in the offense. It cost us a 2nd round pick in '10 (I don't count the '11 pick since we recouped it) and we move on.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

Didn't know where else to put this but it's pretty interesting. Talking about how awful our OL was at stopping the pass rush and how poor ole McNabb was being assaulted.

What they fail to point out is of all the teams who did poor in this catagory how many times was the offensive play designed to exploit the pass rush? In other words how many plays were designed to allow the OL to chip or block a defenseman then release for say a screan pass or for the QB to dump the ball to a RB or TE behind the pass rush?

Funny how 3 of the 4 playoff teams (Steelers, Eagles, Bears) had a worse record against the pass rush then the Skins and only 1 (Packers) had a better record but not by much. Yet ... lets make fun of the Skins. Why? because they are an easy target? or because they didn't make the playoffs?

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/06/07/11/Skins-QBs-operated-under-siege-in-2010/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=533140&feedID=6458]Skins' QBs operated under siege in 2010[/url]

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=NLC1054;806088]It was a sort of dumb move. I think this was the one case of Mike buying into the guy before he bought into the player. He figured he could fix the player the way he "fixed" other veteran guys like Bubby Brister and Gus Ferrotte and Jake Plummer and the like.

Well, he couldn't. I mean, it makes sense; he thought Donovan could bring some stability to the position and to the football team and be the leader that everyone says he is. It's easy to say it was a bad decision in hindsight, but at th etime, for the player we all thought he was going to be, the move made since.

You can rebuild the team around Donovan for the rest of his career, then hand a ready made contender to a new quarterback when he hangs it up.

There's logic in it. Just it didn't work as we as anyone hoped.[/quote]

There's also the possibility that the mcnabb talks preceded shanny; he might've been posed w/it at the time of hiring. The Danny may have 'asked' him to try & win now w/Mcnabb.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=freddyg12;806158]There's also the possibility that the mcnabb talks preceded shanny; he might've been posed w/it at the time of hiring. The Danny may have 'asked' him to try & win now w/Mcnabb.[/quote]

No. First person to bring it up as a possibility was actually Bruce Allen. After Shanahan came on board

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

The McNabb deal kinda came out of the blue and went down very quickly, it definitely wasn't something that was brewing before Shanahan got here.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;806112]No question there were some questionable moves made but at the same time, it's pretty clear that Shanny isn't afraid to admit and rectify mistakes along the way. Case in point, he cut LJ, cut Willie Parker, cut Galloway, suspended Haynesworth, ultimately benched McNabb and started playing younger players. Then in the draft rather than go for the flashy pick in Gabbert he traded back and back and back to pick 12 players. Rather than focusing on the problems, look at the progress.

As for McNabb/Kyle, it was oil and water from the beginning. There was a dramatic difference in offensive efficiency starting in the 2nd half of the Cowboys game, thru the Jacksonville game and the Giants game. Human Turnover Machine Rex was pretty loose with the ball but from the standpoint of the offense 'working', I have no questions that Kyle is the right guy. McNabb was simply the wrong guy for the job in the offense. It cost us a 2nd round pick in '10 (I don't count the '11 pick since we recouped it) and we move on.[/QUOTE]

I anticipated us trading back several times in the draft. That should have come as no surprise when you consider how they accumulated picks the previous year in the late rounds of the draft.

It's relatively easy to admit fault when it's already public knowledge that the fault belongs to you. Much more difficult to have the foresight to avoid a precarious situation before it blows up in your face. It wasn't a noble act for Shanny to create all that cryptic subterfuge after the first McNabb benching. LJ, Galloway and Parker never should have been on the team in the first place and this was my contension during last offseason. Sorry I don't have written proof to confirm that this is true, but you'll have to take my word for it. If a layman like me can make that distinction shouldn't the head coach be able to do the same. I'm not trying to boast. I'm just being honest.

I don't doubt Kyle's ability as an offensive coordinator, however I'm not convinced McNabb got a fair shake either.

As far as Grossman is concerned, the guy has done nothing meritorious in this league. Even in his best year he threw equally as many interceptions as he did TDs in an offense heavily predictated on the run. If you can't avoid throwing interceptions when you're consistently staring at 8 man fronts there is something inherently wrong with your game. Then again I believe we never should have traded JC, but that's just me.

Re: Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;806152]Didn't know where else to put this but it's pretty interesting. Talking about how awful our OL was at stopping the pass rush and how poor ole McNabb was being assaulted.

What they fail to point out is of all the teams who did poor in this catagory how many times was the offensive play designed to exploit the pass rush? In other words how many plays were designed to allow the OL to chip or block a defenseman then release for say a screan pass or for the QB to dump the ball to a RB or TE behind the pass rush?

Funny how 3 of the 4 playoff teams (Steelers, Eagles, Bears) had a worse record against the pass rush then the Skins and only 1 (Packers) had a better record but not by much. Yet ... lets make fun of the Skins. Why? because they are an easy target? or because they didn't make the playoffs?

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/06/07/11/Skins-QBs-operated-under-siege-in-2010/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=533140&feedID=6458]Skins' QBs operated under siege in 2010[/url][/quote]

It's both. Right now, people are treating us like the Detriot Lions of the league. We're the easiest target because we have the most to prove and our head coach is getting rid of a "Hall of Fame" quarterback like Donovan McNabb, and clearly it must be something he did wrong, and Donovan is an innocent flower in this, somehow.

McNabb has been one of those quarterbacks who has been savvy enough to avoid a lot of the criticism that would normally be put on other quarterbacks.