8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Fml ,

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

There really isn't much pressure from either side at the moment to do anything. Won't be until late June/early July when players start realizing they need to get their paychecks and owners realize they're better off with improving/amending their rosters and getting games back on the field.

In the meantime, Redskins players will hold another organized workout next week.

And the further we get from lifting this lockout, the less likely it gets for someone like VY to sign with the Skins

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Thank goodness for sanity

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I will be impressed if the first regular season game is played before November.

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Would of liked to have seen the lockout ended so players can actually get a playbook, I know there probably looking over the shoulder of teammates so they can see the playbook.

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McNabb may stay after all

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/report-breakthrough-in-talks/]Report: “Breakthrough” in talks | ProFootballTalk[/url]

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And if they come to a compromise PFT doesn't make it sound like it will be a deal good enough to last for any decent amount of time before we are right back here. Its crazy what 9 billion dollars can do isn't it? And just think, without fan support, a good portion of the 9 billion dollars wouldn't be there. I think both sides need to think about THAT! Get ur crap together, all ya NFL decision makers!!!!

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;803083]Thank goodness for sanity[/quote]

agreed

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Hooray for big business! Take that workers. Viva la fat cats!

Oh wait, breakthrough. Crap. I hate compromise. You have to take what you want and crush the spirit of the opposition. Negotiation is a war, except without guns and killing and unspeakable atrocities. But other then that it's the same.

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I see this lockout lasting because the owners geared up for it beforehand. The previous two CBA extensions just seemed like a band aid on the overall owners/players dilemma.

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Though I have been critical of Goodell he has been absolutely right that they need to settle this through negotiation/mediation rather then through the courts.

And though we've been burned before on the idea that both sides are close I still remain hopeful especially since that means that not only do we get football back but our main free agent target Davin Joesph becomes unrestricted. I guess part of us lucked out with guys like Franklin and C. Jenkins being UFA's no matter what (2010 rules or New CBA) but getting a pro bowl guy on the interior in his prime is just such a huge boost for us.

Add a Right Tackle among Brown, Harris, and Trueblood and the revamping of our line is about 70% complete.

Damnit now I'm getting to excited.

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[quote=SmootSmack;803081]There really isn't much pressure from either side at the moment to do anything. Won't be until late June/early July when players start realizing they need to get their paychecks and owners realize they're better off with improving/amending their rosters and getting games back on the field.

In the meantime, Redskins players will hold another organized workout next week.

And the further we get from lifting this lockout, the less likely it gets for someone like VY to sign with the Skins[/quote]


I definitley find myself rooting for the owners and for this lockout to drag on ..... and on ...... and on. The thought of VY in B&G makes me sick.

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Just for the sake of perspective here's the NFL's last offer to the NFLPA before they decertified (which actually reminds me why I was so pissed off at the players for a while as their attempt to bully their way through the courts with anti-trust litigation didn't help the lockout).

[quote]Here’s an excerpt: ”At a time when thousands of employees are fighting for their collective bargaining rights, this union has chosen to abandon collective bargaining in favor of a sham ‘decertification’ and antitrust litigation. This litigation maneuver is built on the indisputably false premise that the NFLPA has stopped being a union and will merely delay the process of reaching an agreement.

”The NFL clubs remain committed to collective bargaining and the federal mediation process until an agreement is reached. The NFL calls on the union to return to negotiations immediately. NFL players, clubs, and fans want an agreement. The only place it can be reached is at the bargaining table.

”The union left a very good deal on the table. It included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; ensure no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).

”The union was offered financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs. The expanded health and safety rules would include a reduction in offseason programs of five weeks (from 14 to nine) and of OTAs (Organized Team Activities) from 14 to 10; significant reductions in the amount of contact in practices; and other changes.”[/quote]

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[quote=NYCskinfan82;803086]Would of liked to have seen the lockout ended so players can actually get a playbook, I know there probably looking over the shoulder of teammates so they can see the playbook.[/quote]

A question then a statement: don't the players and new rookies already have the playbooks?

I'm asking because on the NFL network they mentioned how rookies were getting help from vets with the play book. Then they said players were handed their play books when they reported to their teams for their introduction to the media.

Maybe that was for Thurs draftees who could show up on Fri. but I would bet good money teams had a plan on how to get the play book to the rookies. Maybe Fletcher was responsible for handing out the playbook.

Plus just another reason I think the NFL said they were investigating teams having contact with players. I'm betting somehow teams handed the book to someone they could trust and the book made it to the players hands.

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[quote=SBXVII;803106][B]A question then a statement: don't the players and new rookies already have the playbooks?[/B]

I'm asking because on the NFL network they mentioned how rookies were getting help from vets with the play book. Then they said players were handed their play books when they reported to their teams for their introduction to the media.

Maybe that was for Thurs draftees who could show up on Fri. but I would bet good money teams had a plan on how to get the play book to the rookies. Maybe Fletcher was responsible for handing out the playbook.

Plus just another reason I think the NFL said they were investigating teams having contact with players. I'm betting somehow teams handed the book to someone they could trust and the book made it to the players hands.[/quote]

Early first round picks like Cam Newton most definitely have playbooks. Maybe a few second rounders as well. Late round picks have gotten access to playbooks through player organized workouts and meeting up with future teammates.

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Don't get overly excited. The owners were asked to make a proposal before the end of the night tonight. It could be handed over at 8:59 and possibly one the players would not like, but the owners can say they were acting in good faith by presenting a proposal.

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[quote=SBXVII;803108]Don't get overly excited. The owners were asked to make a proposal before the end of the night tonight. It could be handed over at 8:59 and possibly one the players would not like, but the owners can say they were acting in good faith by presenting a proposal.[/quote]

Same s**t different day
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/progress-in-mediated-talks-disputed/]Progress in mediated talks disputed | ProFootballTalk[/url]

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I'm finding it extremely hard to care about football with all this crap going on... it's actually pretty depressing.

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Let's all just go Bull-riding!!

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[quote=Gmanc711;803111]I'm finding it extremely hard to care about football with all this crap going on... it's actually pretty depressing.[/quote]

Yeah, if I had a magic 8 ball I'd say the outlook is bleak.

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/reports-regarding-lack-of-progress-are-a-matter-of-semantics/]Reports regarding lack of progress are a matter of semantics | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Good take

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

"Is it possible that, either by his choice or the will of his employers, the fallout from this labor nightmare will cost Goodell his job?

“Zero chance,” one owner insisted Wednesday.

The owner said there is near-unanimous support for the commissioner among the people running the 32 franchises and that Goodell has been “absolutely great” before and during the labor crisis."

[B]"Roger is trying to do business, and De is like a psycho girlfriend who doesn’t know what he wants, doesn’t understand what he’s involved in and [who] you can’t reason with,” the owner said. “With psycho girlfriends, at least you can move on eventually. But Roger is stuck with him right now.”[/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTXap0l2LDhp3eKQ2FboPBrIGBTJ9AKfadOTP9PPjAlhfqO_zw[/IMG][/CENTER]

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Courts to the fans.
[YT]VDW0ZnZxjn4[/YT]

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[quote=NM Redskin;803132]Courts to the fans.
[YT]VDW0ZnZxjn4[/YT][/quote]

You're a cheat and a swindler.

In other news I think passing up Troy Vincent for DeMaurice Smith was easily the biggest mistakes the players union made. Smith continues to insist on going "bull in a china shop" with the courts and taking an extremely adversarial position as opposed to engaging in good faith negotiation.

In fact now that I think about it here's how D. Smith has approached negotiations. Get into a room with the owners/commissioner/etc, owners make a proposal, then rather then make a counter offer Smith storms out and b*****s to the media.

I feel like if Upshaw were still alive he would keep negotiating and simply tell the media that they're working on a deal that works out for both sides (and yes Smoot I know that back in the day Upshaw was a hot head :D).

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[url=http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/109906-ed-in-good-faith-move-owners-should-end-lockout]Ed: In Good Faith Move, Owners Should End Lockout[/url]

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[quote=Uncle Skins;803116]Yeah, if I had a magic 8 ball I'd say the outlook is bleak.[/quote]

[COLOR=orange][SIZE=5]●[/SIZE][/COLOR] Ask again later

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[quote=Mattyk;803161][URL="http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/109906-ed-in-good-faith-move-owners-should-end-lockout"]Ed: In Good Faith Move, Owners Should End Lockout[/URL][/quote]

[U]Me: In Good Faith Move, Players Should Drop Law Suit.[/U]

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Obviously both would have to happen

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/with-new-offer-in-hand-ball-is-in-players-court/]With new offer in hand, ball is in players’ court | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE]On Monday, the NFL made a new CBA offer to the players, even though the players never responded to the last offer the NFL made. [/QUOTE]

As one of the commentors stated at the bottom....

[QUOTE]Second offer made by the owners. That’s Owners – 2 Players – 0. Let’s hope Smith takes a step back and allows all the players to consider it.[/QUOTE]

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/even-in-defeat-de-smith-rolls-out-the-rhetoric/]Even in defeat, De Smith rolls out the rhetoric | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE]“It’s a disappointment obviously that as far as we can tell this is the first sports league in history who sued to not plays its game,” Smith told reporters after Monday’s ruling. “Congratulations.”[/QUOTE]

The players need to fire De Smith. They would be better off anyone else at this point. make the owners happy and get rid of him and find someone who will represent them better and hopefully a deal can be struck.

[QUOTE]The league hasn’t sued anyone. The league wants to impose economic pressure on the players via a lockout, and the players decertified and filed an antitrust lawsuit in the hopes of blocking the lockout. Today’s ruling that the lockout won’t be lifted pending resolution of the appeal by the Eighth Circuit hardly represents the NFL suing to not plays its game.[/QUOTE]

Am I confused or is this writer? The owners didn't lockout until AFTER the players decertified. and basically done to protect themselves from pending law suits by the players. But I agree with the last statement that it hardly represents the NFL suing to not play games. Each is trying to get the upper hand. The players decertified in hopes it would put pressure on the owners. The owners locked out because of it. The players filed a law suit claiming the owners illegally locked out, and the owners filed suit claiming the players illegally decertified. In any event the owners might have a point. If the first act is illegal (the decertifying) then the rest is moot. If it's not illegal then the owners are in the wrong and would need to lift the lockout. Yes/No?

What I don't get is the media has laid out the options for each side if players do this the owners will do that, if the owners do this the players will do that. But each time at the end of the scenario's the owners seem to have the upper hand. So why jump through all these hoops in hopes that what? the owners will slip up and throw an agreement at you that you love? They would be better off taking Goodall out to a bar and getting him completely drunk and on tape agreeing to what they want.

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[quote=SBXVII;803163][U]Me: In Good Faith Move, Players Should Drop Law Suit.[/U][/quote]


Owners back the players into a corner. You can't expect anything less.

1) Opted out of CBA
2) Tried to illegally gain money from TV contracts during lockout to give them all the leverage financially


The people that need to show the good faith moves are the guys who started this whole shit.

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SBXVII- If the NFL owners did not get money back from the players in a new CBA deal the owners were going lock out the players anyway. The NBA owners are heading the same direction. You can see that right?
They will agree to a new deal at some point.
In the mean time the supposed "financially hurt NFL owners" greed continues:


[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/in-nfl-owners-enterprise-nothings-free/2011/05/16/AFW4gD5G_story.html]In NFL owners’ enterprise, nothing’s free - The Washington Post[/url]

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[quote=NC_Skins;803173]Owners back the players into a corner. You can't expect anything less.

1) Opted out of CBA
2) Tried to illegally gain money from TV contracts during lockout to give them all the leverage financially


The people that need to show the good faith moves are the guys who started this whole shit.[/quote]

Sorry opting out of the CBA was not an act of bad faith. It was a business decision - the owners were never in love with the CBA in the first place and had a legal right to opt out. I believe the option was unconditional and a business decision either side was free to make.

As to the TV contracts, I haven't been following that issue to closely. As such, not going to contest the issue at this point.

To me, however, the "Big Lie" is still the players decertification. The players still are acting like a union, still want a global settlement and, despite walking, talking and smelling like a union, decertified in order to circumvent the applicable labor laws.

The owners exercised a legal option in a legal fashion consistent with the intent of the applicable agreement.

The players exercised a legal option in an illegal fashion inconsistent with the underlying agreeement and with the intent to circumvent the applicable law.

The owners have since left two solid compromise offers on the table and DeA**hole Smith is still playing the "poor poor pitiful us" card.

As always in all of this, my disclaimer is that there is plenty of blame for both sides in this.

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As a football fan, I hate this lock-out becasue it is interfering with my enjoyment of the football offseason and all the intrigue of roster shaping.

However, if I owned an NFL team, I would have locked the players out also. It is a business decison that should not bend to the will of the fan base (myself included as I wish it would end today). Whatever the resolution, it will affect revenues and profit margins of these clubs for years to come. Locking out the players may seem a harsh negotiation tactic, but may prove to be an effective one. Also, fast forward 5 or 10 years from now....same owners, different players. You have got to protect your future bottom line in business, even if it means alienating your current work force.

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Wow, great counter offer players. Way to go, you sure you guys have never negotiated before because you guys are awesome at it, and by awesome I mean down right horrible, so bad that a 4th grader could do better, so bad that the Players would be better off sending a giraffe to negotiate on their behalf, or a Saint Bernard, everyone likes Saint Bernards.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

[QUOTE]rpiotr01 says:
May 17, 2011 2:46 PM
Players are too emotional and competitive, which is why they’re worthless in the process of collective bargaining. It generally makes sense to turn negotiations over to lawyers, but in this case they chose the wrong kind of lawyers. Both Smith and Kessler are litigators – their world view is win or lose, no area in between. In their practices, winning meant their client might keep everything, while losing meant they might go out of business or go to jail.

They should have hired corporate lawyers instead. These people are used to negotiating deals between two parties interested in making a deal. Of course they fight for the best deal possible, but at the end of the day they know they’re there to make a deal happen, not to prevent one.

The fact that the players hired these two goons tells you everything. It was a mistake. No one on their side is emotionally capable of making a deal. They just can’t see the situation as anything other than black or white. It’s a shame, because there is an opportunity to do something right now.

They need to get their heads out of the litigation cloud and make a counter offer. Go back and forth, that’s how these things work. It’s like buying a car, you don’t get insulted when the dealer asks you to pay MSRP, you make an offer until you get something you can live with. Just please, try, that’s all anyone is asking[/QUOTE]

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[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]Sorry opting out of the CBA was not an act of bad faith. It was a business decision - the owners were never in love with the CBA in the first place and had a legal right to opt out. I believe the option was unconditional and a business decision either side was free to make.[/quote]

I'm sorry, either side? Did the players have that option to opt out of the CBA? Sure they had the right, and to each his own. It's a gamble they are taking too.


[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]To me, however, the "Big Lie" is still the players decertification. The players still are acting like a union, still want a global settlement and, despite walking, talking and smelling like a union, decertified in order to circumvent the applicable labor laws. [/quote]

The players are acting like a group of collective people. It's fine if big businesses use all these loopholes to avoid tax evasion and other criminal activities, but let the workers find a loophole and BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!!

[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]The owners exercised a legal option in a legal fashion consistent with the intent of the applicable agreement.[/quote]

Nope. Their whole cartel is one big Monopoly. There isn't technically anything "legal" about it. The only way it exists is because the players agree to it.

[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]The players exercised a legal option in an illegal fashion inconsistent with the underlying agreeement and with the intent to circumvent the applicable law.[/quote]

Proof? Looks like everything they've done has been legal. Have any issues about their blockade, talk to this guy.

[IMG]http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu242/laurennopenz/NuteGunray.jpg[/IMG]

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Oh, the owners have done everything legal (even though the courts disagreed with your stance...see the TV deal as proof) but you say the players did it illegal. You sure you aren't in our White House? Sounds like some sort of sideways spin they put onto things. You can't say one is right and the other is wrong.

[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]The owners have since left two solid compromise offers on the table and DeA**hole Smith is still playing the "poor poor pitiful us" card.[/quote]

So please show me these details on the "solid compromise offers" you speak of.

[quote=JoeRedskin;803194]As always in all of this, my disclaimer is that there is plenty of blame for both sides in this.[/quote]

...and most of it goes to the guys who [B]started[/B] this. Owners.

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[quote=NC_Skins;803236]I'm sorry, either side? Did the players have that option to opt out of the CBA? Sure they had the right, and to each his own. It's a gamble they are taking too.[/quote]To be direct: yes, the players had that right, as well.