No Huddle?
 

I saw this on the team's website. Why not? It seems to me that this team needs to start fast. They appear too slow to me.

What Sayeth The Mob?

Re: No Huddle?
 

They seem to work far, far better out of the no huddle. Like the last 2 minutes of the game should've been happening all game.

JC must be thinking too much in the huddle or something because

1) We obviously don't do as well

2) We're constantly burning time outs because we're standing around in the huddle for like 15 seconds. Way too long. (We still have no idea how to manage the clock)

So. Needless to say, I wish they'd use it a little more. Changes the pace of the game as well as throws the defense off guard.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Fan_Mailbag__Is_the_No_Huddle_Offense_In_the_Works__51216.jsp]Fan Mailbag: Is the No-Huddle Offense In the Works?[/url]

Campbell looks much more comfortable in that shotgun, no-huddle, no time to think mode. But I'm not sure that's the right answer for the majority of the game

Re: No Huddle?
 

The no-huddle offense worked very well last night for Buffalo against NE. It could be effective for us in some stretches of a game, but as a full time option I'm skeptical.

Re: No Huddle?
 

I don't know about the Skins running a no huddle. Hell, they can't even get a normal play run with a huddle.

Re: No Huddle?
 

I'm a fan, if only because I'm tired of Zorn taking 35 seconds to come up with the perfect version of the same screen play.

Re: No Huddle?
 

it's a copy cat league, so us copying what the bills are doing wouldn't surprise me. Plus it suits campbell the best IMO. We should run more screens to portis, and not as many screens to moss in the redzone, IMO.

Re: No Huddle?
 

No huddle, shotgun, -- do [I]something[/I]. I believe it's time for Zorn to take a page from the history of Joe Gibbs and start thinking about the players he has, versus the system he really wants.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;589598]I don't know about the Skins running a no huddle. Hell, they can't even get a normal play run with a huddle.[/quote]
:lol:
we definetly need a change.its been stagnant for a while now.I wish we would adopt New Englands approach.They use the shotgun whenever they feel like it,not just in long situations,I love that attacking mode

Re: No Huddle?
 

LOL well our Offense can't get any worse so hell lets roll with the no huddle... maybe we can score more than 10pts on offense this wk...

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589590]Campbell looks much more comfortable in that shotgun, no-huddle, no time to think mode. But I'm not sure that's the right answer for the majority of the game[/quote]

Personally, I think they should start off in it or at least bring it out early in the game. Take a series to set the tempo, use the base offense for the majority of the game but, at random moments, switch into no huddle. Campbell performs well in it and it might help to loosen up the defenses.

I like Zorn, I want him to succeed, but this, IMHO, seems to me to be a situation where the coach wants to succeed [I]his way[/I] as opposed to using the talent at hand finding a way for it to succeed.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;589639]Personally, I think they should start off in it or at least bring it out early in the game. Take a series to set the tempo, use the base offense for the majority of the game but, at random moments, switch into no huddle. Campbell performs well in it and it might help to loosen up the defenses.

I like Zorn, I want him to succeed, but this, IMHO, seems to me to be a situation where the coach wants to succeed [I]his way[/I] as opposed to using the talent at hand finding a way for it to succeed.[/quote]

Definitely agree with you're saying about Zorn. As for Campbell, sometimes he reminds me of Arthur Rhodes.

[I]Say what??[/I]

So back in the early 90's Arthur Rhodes was supposed to be the man for the Orioles. Big, powerful lefty starter. Can't miss. But he was mediocre year after year.

Until they put him in middle relief and he started to shine (relatively speaking). And he was asked "Why are you having success now when you were struggling as a starter"

And his answer, which I suppose was expected because I think the O's had run some psych tests on him and determined he was better suited for middle relief was (to paraphrase) "When I'm starting, I know that four out of five days I'm sitting on the bench in the dugout, thinking and worrying about my next start. As a middle reliever, there's no time to think. I can be called on at any time and I just have to go out there and pitch."

Sometimes I feel like that's what's going through Campbell's mind. When he has time to sit and go through his projections he has too much time to think. But if he has to act quickly then he's better off.

Re: No Huddle?
 

Same basic question, but about the shotgun. Zorn's lack of use of it is in his own words due to the timing of the run game. I think it is supremely obvious that the shotgun and JC work well together. With that said, if Zorn wants to be a "genius" let him develop a shotgun formation that perfects the west coast run game. It's gotta be do-able, but I would love to see Jason run every play (pass or run) out of the shotgun. He just seems comfortable with it.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;589639]Personally, I think they should start off in it or at least bring it out early in the game. Take a series to set the tempo, use the base offense for the majority of the game but, at random moments, switch into no huddle. Campbell performs well in it and it might help to loosen up the defenses.

I like Zorn, I want him to succeed, but this, IMHO, seems to me to be a situation where the coach wants to succeed [I]his way[/I] as opposed to using the talent at hand finding a way for it to succeed.[/quote]When the Redskins can run the ball for 4-5 yards a pop, Zorn's offense works fantastic. Combine a efficient running game and an efficient passing game that has the benefit of play action, and you have a low risk, ball control offense that eats the clock and ends every drive with points.

But we don't really play in an era where it's viable to expect to be able to run the football. For 6 games last season, we ran the ball on everyone we played and were pretty much an unstoppable offense. Portis tore his MCL and while he tried to play through it, the inability to run on great teams just put the passing offense in horrendous situaitions.

Having an offense that tries to establish the run is still viable, but knowing when you just aren't going to be able to run is just as important. Modern defenses can completely take away a running back if they want to, so you have to be able to take the exact same personnel and have a bunch of passing plays that can break down undermanned coverages.

This year, the Redskins are not undermanned on offense, so it's probably time to "open it up" so to speak.

Re: No Huddle?
 

Our punter has as many TD's as our entire offense has this season. Why not try it here and there?

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589653]Definitely agree with you're saying about Zorn. As for Campbell, sometimes he reminds me of Arthur Rhodes.

[I]Say what??[/I]

So back in the early 90's Arthur Rhodes was supposed to be the man for the Orioles. Big, powerful lefty starter. Can't miss. But he was mediocre year after year.

Until they put him in middle relief and he started to shine (relatively speaking). And he was asked "Why are you having success now when you were struggling as a starter"

And his answer, which I suppose was expected because I think the O's had run some psych tests on him and determined he was better suited for middle relief was (to paraphrase) "When I'm starting, I know that four out of five days I'm sitting on the bench in the dugout, thinking and worrying about my next start. As a middle reliever, there's no time to think. I can be called on at any time and I just have to go out there and pitch."

Sometimes I feel like that's what's going through Campbell's mind. When he has time to sit and go through his projections he has too much time to think. But if he has to act quickly then he's better off.[/quote]I'll go one step further. Without using the words rhythm or moxy, if we keep limiting him to fewer than 40 attempts in a game, you've essentially sealed his fate as quarterback of the Redskins. Even when he plays well, none of his critics will see it unless you really make it obvious that Jason Campbell is the WHOLE offense, and Portis just plays in it.

How will Portis handle a diminished role? I don't care. He can go elsewhere if he doesn't want to be part of the Redskins passing revolution.

Re: No Huddle?
 

A no-huddle offense is just a means to an end of getting Jason Campbell to attempt enough passes to make him a consistent 300 yard passer.

I pulled the number 7.2 out of thin air for a ypa figure given relevant improvement for Campbell (he was 8.1 against a strong defense on Sunday). At 7.2 ypa, he needs to attempt 42 passes to throw for 300 yards.

This 20 passes in 4 quarters of work crap isn't going to work. I know the defense takes forever to get a stop, but the offense takes 4 game clock minutes to do 7 play drives. Seriously, throw some passes.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589610]No huddle, shotgun, -- do [I]something[/I]. I believe it's time for Zorn to take a page from the history of Joe Gibbs and start thinking about the players he has, versus the system he really wants.[/quote]

He did take history from Gibbs and that why we keep having to call timeouts to get the plays. LOL

Re: No Huddle?
 

I've worn the letters off of S H O T G U N on my keyboard the last few days because it's clear that running a higher percentage of our offense from that formation is vital to it's success. As a few people have said in this thread. Some coaches want things to be done their way and some coaches are willing to adapt to their talent. My way coaches are usually looking for work in January.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=Luxorreb;589658]Our punter has as many TD's as our entire offense has this season. Why not try it here and there?[/quote]

Or let the punter play more.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589653]Definitely agree with you're saying about Zorn. As for Campbell, sometimes he reminds me of Arthur Rhodes.

[I]Say what??[/I]

So back in the early 90's Arthur Rhodes was supposed to be the man for the Orioles. Big, powerful lefty starter. Can't miss. But he was mediocre year after year.

Until they put him in middle relief and he started to shine (relatively speaking). And he was asked "Why are you having success now when you were struggling as a starter"

And his answer, which I suppose was expected because I think the O's had run some psych tests on him and determined he was better suited for middle relief was (to paraphrase) "When I'm starting, I know that four out of five days I'm sitting on the bench in the dugout, thinking and worrying about my next start. As a middle reliever, there's no time to think. I can be called on at any time and I just have to go out there and pitch."

Sometimes I feel like that's what's going through Campbell's mind. When he has time to sit and go through his projections he has too much time to think. But if he has to act quickly then he's better off.[/quote]

Same basic story I heard from Gus F one time, when asked about being a backup. He said if he is the starter, he doesn't sleep well the night before, as he stresses and thinks. But if he is the back up, he is relaxed, and when called on he just goes out and "does it". I doubt Campbell stresses the night before, but who knows what causes a physically gifted athlete to succeed or not.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=Paintrain;589667]I've worn the letters off of S H O T G U N on my keyboard the last few days because it's clear that running a higher percentage of our offense from that formation is vital to it's success. As a few people have said in this thread. Some coaches want things to be done their way and some coaches are willing to adapt to their talent. My way coaches are usually looking for work in January.[/quote]I think it's obvious that Zorn *gets* the fact that shotgun is the way to go. His passing playcalling is much more gun heavy than it was at any point last year, and on top of that, when the Redskins are in the gun, Heyer goes from a young starting RT to a guy in a comfort zone who completely owns every LDE in the league (except Justin Tuck).

But you do have to go under center to run the ball, and I don't see anything that suggests that Zorn's not going to try to put the ball on the ground at least one time every three plays for the rest of the season. So the passing offense will be stuck with a very thin margin for error, which in turn, limits it's downfield ability when it's only purpose is to covert the first down to allow Portis to stay on the field.

Even a shotgun heavy offense is ineffective if the down and distance is 3rd and 9.

Re: No Huddle?
 

I'm of the opinion that that an optimal offense will pass 6 times in a row followed by 4 straight runs, patterns that aren't two runs and two passes followed by two more runs and two more passes.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;589673]I think it's obvious that Zorn *gets* the fact that shotgun is the way to go. His passing playcalling is much more gun heavy than it was at any point last year, and on top of that, when the Redskins are in the gun, Heyer goes from a young starting RT to a guy in a comfort zone who completely owns every LDE in the league (except Justin Tuck).

But you do have to go under center to run the ball, and I don't see anything that suggests that Zorn's not going to try to put the ball on the ground at least one time every three plays for the rest of the season. So the passing offense will be stuck with a very thin margin for error, which in turn, limits it's downfield ability when it's only purpose is to covert the first down to allow Portis to stay on the field.

Even a shotgun heavy offense is ineffective if the down and distance is 3rd and 9.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm not advocating a return to the K-Gun offense or anything like that but less predictability. The Giants had zero fear of our passing game because we gave them no reason to unless it was an obvious passing down. I know we have to run and being under center is the most effective way to do so but I guess I'm looking for more of an emphasis on the shotgun and being creative and flexible out of it.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;589673]I think it's obvious that Zorn *gets* the fact that shotgun is the way to go. His passing playcalling is much more gun heavy than it was at any point last year, and on top of that, when the Redskins are in the gun, Heyer goes from a young starting RT to a guy in a comfort zone who completely owns every LDE in the league (except Justin Tuck).

[B]But you do have to go under center to run the ball, [/B]and I don't see anything that suggests that Zorn's not going to try to put the ball on the ground at least one time every three plays for the rest of the season. So the passing offense will be stuck with a very thin margin for error, which in turn, limits it's downfield ability when it's only purpose is to covert the first down to allow Portis to stay on the field.

Even a shotgun heavy offense is ineffective if the down and distance is 3rd and 9.[/quote]

Tripp, this is a basic question I admit, but why does the run snap have to be under center? Is it impossible to run from the shotgun? I think Jason benefits from the shotgun cuz he is able to see the field clearer, so why not move the gun up, maybe make a "snubnose" offense where he takes the snap 3 steps back and has a shortend drop. again, i don't understand the limiting factor that forces a run snap to be from under center?

Re: No Huddle?
 

The other thing is that Zorn, by all evidence, is a very smart guy who understands NFL offense like few in the league do. He's always shown a knack for understanding what defenses are going to do and stay out of catastrophic calls. But, the toughest transition for a playcaller seems to be letting go of the micromanagement aspect of the job and just letting the talent on offense decide whether your team floats or sinks.

The Redskins defense simply is not good enough at this time to compensate for an offense that micromanages every offensive play. The offense has to be able to score quickly, and the intermediate passing will come with a higher dependency on Campbell.

People around the league see a playcaller who is hesitant to trust his QB. I see a playcaller who is hesitant to trust anyone who isn't himself. The theoretical fix to this problem is easy: let the players on the field manage the game. It is easy: until the quarterback commits two turnovers. Then do you play through it? Zorn didn't. He made adjustments that went to running the ball and throwing a lot of screens in the first four possessions of the second half. The result: a 10 point halftime deficit became a 13 point deficit and all we wasted was 27 game minutes.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;589680]Tripp, this is a basic question I admit, but why does the run snap have to be under center? Is it impossible to run from the shotgun? I think Jason benefits from the shotgun cuz he is able to see the field clearer, so why not move the gun up, maybe make a "snubnose" offense where he takes the snap 3 steps back and has a shortend drop. again, i don't understand the limiting factor that forces a run snap to be from under center?[/quote]Anecdotally, I don't think runs from the shotgun happen quickly enough to work over the long haul. The draw play relies on the defensive ends to take themselves out of the play, which gives a huge hole for the back to run through. But under center runs allow the back to be at full speed in the hole, while shotgun runs rely on trickery to get the back to the second level.

We're a pretty darn good draw team, but after about the third time, the ends get the point and just make the tackle.

Now, great offensive lines can block anything. If we completely dominate the defensive line, it doesn't really matter how the running back gets the ball. If your running game is played on the margin, like ours is, I think it makes all the difference.

Re: No Huddle?
 

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks

Re: No Huddle?
 

Not to bring Shanahan into this discussion, but his entire under center game consists of runs, play action passes, and screens. That's it. Everything else is run from the gun. You can use play action as a weapon to sell the running game. You don't have to dropback pass to sell the fact that the safeties should stay back when the offense is under center.

Re: No Huddle?
 

I think we need to mix it up and not be so predictable on offense. We had some poor clock managment during the Giant game late when we could not get the plays in quick enough which lead to a time out. The plus factor of the no huddle is defenses can't sub in fresh D-Lineman. So I hope we do go No Huddle more when needed. This can put pressure on the defense as long as we can keep the ball and convert 3rd downs. If we go 3 and out our defense will be on the field more.

Re: No Huddle?
 

All this shotgun talk reminds me of what they were saying about Vince Young in Tennessee before they figured out he just wasn't very good. Good QBs are good under center, under shot gun, when they're walking down the street, banging their hot model/pop star girlfriends, etc. They're just good. Period.

On the play where Campbell held onto the ball too long while tip-toeing around in the pocket instead of stepping up like a man, Cooley was in single coverage. Is was tight coverage, but single coverage in the NFL means your OPEN. Did anyone see Brady's 2 TDs at the end of the Bills game? Watson was blanketed, but it was single coverage and Brady let it rip without hesitation and gave his TE a chance to make a play. And he did and they won.

Re: No Huddle?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;589598]I don't know about the Skins running a no huddle. Hell, they can't even get a normal play run with a huddle.[/quote]

i think we will improve against the rams the team is pissed right now.HAIL