Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

I was looking at some stats today and began to think. How some QBs benefit from being put in a position where they can win. Everything is base on certain situations and also team management, personel, execution and coaching..

That being said..Kudos for Eli getting over the hump. But if people think he is going to be the same without Plaxico..I doubt it. Because as you recall Plaxico was on fire at the end of their superbowl season and was one of the reasons besides a killer D-line and a awesome running game that the Giants won a Superbowl.That being said..

How many of those things are we missing
1. A tall go to receiver..Hopefully Kelly, Thomas or one of the new guys can step up and be a go to receiver
2. Ware of Dallas had more sacks than our whole D-line (hopefully Haynesworth & Orakpo will help)
3. Our running game is decent. But Our number 2 back is not as good as the Giants and our O-line keeps getting nicked up and is old..

That being said..

Compare last years stats between Eli & Jason and also take into account that Eli has been in the same system for a few years and has all of those things listed above..

stats:

Eli Manning: 289 479 3,238 21 10 86.4
Jason Campbell: 315 506 3,245 13 6 84.3

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Good post. I have argued before that, if you look at the stats, the much-maligned JC compares favorably with Eli.

As for the Giants, I think that without Plax people will stack 8 in the box more against the Giants this year. I think the absence of Plax will harm not just the Giants' passing game but their running game as well.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

eli and jason are alot alike, imo. both are pretty good qbs, not great. neither is really gonna carry their team by themselves such as mcnabb or peyton have done.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=wolfeskins;565783]eli and jason are alot alike, imo. both are pretty good qbs, not great. neither is really gonna carry their team by themselves such as mcnabb or peyton have done.[/quote]

True and McNabb doesn't get the credit he deserves. Its always Peyton and Brady..But McNabb has done it with no weapons besides Westbrook who can't stay healthy. I am a skins fan..But I have respect for McNabb. The best QB in the NFC East..If not the NFC!!

But the thing that is the difference between ELI vs Jason is..Last year was JC's first year as a starter and he has been in a diff offense every year..Its the opposite for ELI. So imagine if Jason Campbell had started those years when Brunell was here (stinking it up). He would be a better QB now..

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;565784]True and McNabb doesn't get the credit he deserves. Its always Peyton and Brady..But McNabb has done it with no weapons besides Westbrook who can't stay healthy. I am a skins fan..But I have respect for McNabb. The best QB in the NFC East..If not the NFC!!

But the thing that is the difference between ELI vs Jason is..Last year was JC's first year as a started and he has been in a diff offense every year..Its the opposite for ELI. So imagine if Jason Campbell had started those years when Brunell was here (stinking it up). He would be a better QB now..[/quote]

oh yea, i definately agree. i feel like if campbell could be in the same system for at least three years he would really excell and become a pretty darn good qb.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

We need a new thread so we can make a list of excusses for JC play and we can check them off as they are no longer excuses.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

can we please get off the " we need a tall receiver" rants?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Super Bowl vs No Super Bowl.


I need to see a Super Bowl god damn it!

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=dmek25;565790]can we please get off the " we need a tall receiver" rants?[/quote]

When we no longer need a tall receiver, the rants will end.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;565782]Good post. I have argued before that, if you look at the stats, the much-maligned JC compares favorably with Eli.

As for the Giants, I think that without Plax people will stack 8 in the box more against the Giants this year. I think the absence of Plax will harm not just the Giants' passing game but their running game as well.[/quote]

I hope everyone out there believes the same thing,they will be surprised!The Giants beat some good teams last year "WITHOUT BURRESS"...yes I said without Burress,now I'm not denying that the Giants will miss him but I think they will miss Toomer more.He was more of someone Eli could count on.People said that after (first) Tiki and then Shockey left Eli would fold...didn't happen and the same will happen this year .There will be situations you would love to have Burress and Toomer both back but I agaree it's time to see if what we have can step up and play.Lets not forget the otherside of the ball either.......games are just not lost or won by just the O only.Defense is why Eli won some of those game and is why Jason lost some of those games,it's a team sport,I still think you'll see NY go deep more often to stop the 8"in the box" theory and the run game again will surprise some people...Ware is good.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;565794]When we no longer need a tall receiver, the rants will end.[/quote]


.........how tall is Steve Smith of the Panthers?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565796].........how tall is Steve Smith of the Panthers?[/quote]

No one denies that the diminutive Smith is good. But when the Panthers want to throw the jump-ball fade in the red zone, they have several other, larger targets. Leaving aside Kelly and Thomas, who are not yet proven, to whom do the Redskins throw the jump-ball fade? Moss and Randle El have both proven that they are too short for the task.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565795]I hope everyone out there believes the same thing,they will be surprised!The Giants beat some good teams last year "WITHOUT BURRESS"...yes I said without Burress,now I'm not denying that the Giants will miss him but I think they will miss Toomer more.He was more of someone Eli could count on.People said that after (first) Tiki and then Shockey left Eli would fold...didn't happen and the same will happen this year .There will be situations you would love to have Burress and Toomer both back but I agaree it's time to see if what we have can step up and play.Lets not forget the otherside of the ball either.......games are just not lost or won by just the O only.Defense is why Eli won some of those game and is why Jason lost some of those games,it's a team sport,I still think you'll see NY go deep more often to stop the 8"in the box" theory and the run game again will surprise some people...Ware is good.[/quote]

To stop the 8-in-the-box, you need not just throw deep, you need a deep threat that teams will consistently respect. Who on the Giants is that respected threat? If you say Hixon, Smith, or Manningham, you will just make me laugh.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565796].........how tall is Steve Smith of the Panthers?[/quote]

Are you saying Plaxico's height didn't help? Funny ya'll drafted Nicks 6-1 then drafted Barden 6-6 in the 3rd. Height didn't have anything to do with it? :yeahright

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;565784]True and McNabb doesn't get the credit he deserves. Its always Peyton and Brady..But McNabb has done it with no weapons besides Westbrook who can't stay healthy. I am a skins fan..But I have respect for McNabb. The best QB in the NFC East..If not the NFC!!

But the thing that is the difference between ELI vs Jason is..Last year was JC's first year as a starter and he has been in a diff offense every year..Its the opposite for ELI. So imagine if Jason Campbell had started those years when Brunell was here (stinking it up). He would be a better QB now..[/quote]

Brady also did it three times with a comparable arsenal to McNabb's receiving core. Thats part of the reason he's gotten a reputation in that he not only won three Super Bowls but he did it without a top tier Reciever. Ironically when he got a top flight receiving core he lost the Super Bowl.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=saden1;565791]Super Bowl vs No Super Bowl.


I need to see a Super Bowl god damn it![/quote]

Super Bowl?! How about JC getting to the playoffs.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

good thread. jc stats just show a superbowl in his future, provided stability. a few plays here and there, we would have been in the playoffs. granted that

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

granted thats jc job. so with that i see a great chance of burgandy and gold in febuary.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565795][B] I hope everyone out there believes the same thing,they will be surprised!The Giants beat some good teams last year "WITHOUT BURRESS"...yes I said without Burress[/B]I,now I'm not denying that the Giants will miss him but I think they will miss Toomer more.He was more of someone Eli could count on.People said that after (first) Tiki and then Shockey left Eli would fold...didn't happen and the same will happen this year .There will be situations you would love to have Burress and Toomer both back but I agaree it's time to see if what we have can step up and play.Lets not forget the otherside of the ball either.......games are just not lost or won by just the O only.Defense is why Eli won some of those game and is why Jason lost some of those games,it's a team sport,I still think you'll see NY go deep more often to stop the 8"in the box" theory and the run game again will surprise some people...Ware is good.[/quote]

Really dude? You guys went 1-4 without Burress, and in those 5 games, Eli only threw 1 TD to a WR. After Plax's suspension, Eli went 0-4 in the last 4 games of the season with ZERO TDs to WR. BTW, Toomer was healthy for all of those games. So please tell me why Eli will miss Toomer more than Plax. Seriously. Know your own team at least.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

I've grown to like Eli he works good in his system, i beleive JC in the same system for the 2nd yr will be much better but i beleive his 3rd yr will be the year althought i do beleive we could make the SB this year.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

please excuse the t on the end of although

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

I am one of the folks who thinks that Jason Campbell can be a really good NFL QB and that he has gotten better each season he has played here.

Having said that, if you want to compare him to Eli Manning at this point, you have to look through the stats and not just at the stats.

Eli Manning has - on more than a few occasions - taken the Giants down the field for the winning score at the end of games. He has done it in the regular season; he has done it in the playoffs; he did it in the Super Bowl. The biggest "hole" in Jason Campbell's resume at the moment is that with the game on the line, he doesn't always deliver. Too many red zone INTs.

Up until the start of the 2009 season, Eli Manning is the better QB of the two. That may not be the way fans view these two QBs at the ends of their careers but that has to be the case right now.

Happy 4th of July...

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;565839]I am one of the folks who thinks that Jason Campbell can be a really good NFL QB and that he has gotten better each season he has played here.

Having said that, if you want to compare him to Eli Manning at this point, you have to look through the stats and not just at the stats.[B]

Eli Manning has - on more than a few occasions - taken the Giants down the field for the winning score at the end of games.[/B] He has done it in the regular season; he has done it in the playoffs; he did it in the Super Bowl. The biggest "hole" in Jason Campbell's resume at the moment is that with the game on the line, he doesn't always deliver. Too many red zone INTs.

Up until the start of the 2009 season, Eli Manning is the better QB of the two. That may not be the way fans view these two QBs at the ends of their careers but that has to be the case right now.

Happy 4th of July...[/quote]Has he, though? Let's exclude their 2007 playoff run, for a second. How far back would I have to go to find an Eli Manning 4th quarter comeback win? I can't remember his last job in the regular season. I guess he beat Carolina in overtime...one of those teams had to win.

Last year, I just think it was the Giants dominating everyone they played. Maybe he has a comeback win or two in 2007, but Campbell won the Saints game.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Gtripp:

Manning has done it to the Eagles twice...

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

our defense is going to be better than last year and looks like the best weve had in years.but the offense looks the same as last year way to many 3 and outs.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

i just pray that cambell finds his groove and proves everyone wrong.we have to pray because jason aint mcnabb and i dont think he can win games in the nfl

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;565840]Has he, though? Let's exclude their 2007 playoff run, for a second. [/quote]

Why, I mean why exclude ...the very facts that prove you wrong?And just for the record ,never said Plax didn't have talent but the Giants did win without him,don't just look at the games he was suspended,look at all the games and see if he was even on the field you will se he was playing like crap even when he was on the field last year.
Now to answer someone else's question...."who do the Giants have that other teams are afraid of"....I don't know but the fun thing is noone else does either,guess you must have to cover everyone then.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565904]Why, I mean why exclude ...the very facts that prove you wrong?And just for the record ,never said Plax didn't have talent but the Giants did win without him,don't just look at the games he was suspended,look at all the games and see if he was even on the field you will se he was playing like crap even when he was on the field last year.
Now to answer someone else's question...."who do the Giants have that other teams are afraid of"....I don't know but the fun thing is noone else does either,guess you must have to cover everyone then.[/quote]Because the question was, "how far would you have to go back to find an Eli comeback win." If you're even getting to 2007, that would be a "longer than Campbell" answer.

Apparently, Eli did throw a TD or two in the fourth quarter last year, which 1) surprised me, and 2) depending on how charitable you are with the definition of "game winning drive", might answer my question.

Which I think, is a legitimate thing to ask if we're talking about clutch ability.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

If Asante Samuel can just manage to hold onto the ball in the Superbowl then we would be talking about Eli as one of the all time choke artists. He comes back on the next play and throws the luckiest pass in NFL history and now he'll probably go down as a clutch player.

In terms of skills the two players are somewhat similar although Eli has certainly had a more talented team. That being said, Eli has clearly underperformed as the number 1 pick. When you consider what the Giants gave up to get him, as well as the 100 million or so they are likely to spend to keep him this year, JC is clearly the better value, for whatever that's worth.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=djnemo65;565908]If Asante Samuel can just manage to hold onto the ball in the Superbowl then we would be talking about Eli as one of the all time choke artists. He comes back on the next play and throws the luckiest pass in NFL history and now he'll probably go down as a clutch player.

In terms of skills the two players are somewhat similar although Eli has certainly had a more talented team. That being said, [B]Eli has clearly underperformed as the number 1 pick. When you consider what the Giants gave up to get him, as well as the 100 million or so they are likely to spend to keep him this year, JC is clearly the better value, for whatever that's worth.[/B][/quote]

Excellent point.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote]Eli Manning: 289 479 3,238 [B][U]21 10[/U][/B] 86.4
Jason Campbell: 315 506 3,245 [B][U]13 6 [/U][/B]84.3[/quote]

Are you kidding? How are those stats comparable?? He threw for 8 more touchdowns -- with our defense, if we had that production, we'd have won 3-4 more games & the division. Last year was Jason's best year -- 13 touchdowns, and Eli's worst year (21 touchdowns).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Eli's a great QB either. As you said, he's benefited from Plaxico, the RB's, and the offensive line. I think Eli & the Giants will struggle again this year without Plax.


So here's the question you are asking when you compare quarterbacks.. If Jason Campbell was on the Giants and Eli was on the Skins, who would be better?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565925][B]Are you kidding? How are those stats comparable??[/B] He threw for 8 more touchdowns -- with our defense, if we had that production, we'd have won 3-4 more games & the division. Last year was Jason's best year -- 13 touchdowns, and Eli's worst year (21 touchdowns).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Eli's a great QB either. As you said, he's benefited from Plaxico, the RB's, and the offensive line. I think Eli & the Giants will struggle again this year without Plax.


So here's the question you are asking when you compare quarterbacks.. [B]If Jason Campbell was on the Giants and Eli was on the Skins, who would be better?[/B][/quote]

Notice that Eli threw more interceptions than JC. That kind of evens out the touchdown thing, which is one reason why their QB ratings are so close. Heck, one year Eli led the NFL in picks - something that JC has not done.

As for your question, with everything being equal (ie Giants win Super Bowl in 07), with JC in NY and Eli in DC I think we would still be having the same conversation. Giants fans would celebrate JC as a Super Bowl winner, Redskins fans would be putting down Eli.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;565927]Notice that Eli threw more interceptions than JC. That kind of evens out the touchdown thing, which is one reason why their QB ratings are so close. Heck, one year Eli led the NFL in picks - something that JC has not done.

As for your question, with everything being equal (ie Giants win Super Bowl in 07), with JC in NY and Eli in DC I think we would still be having the same conversation. Giants fans would celebrate JC as a Super Bowl winner, [B]Redskins fans would be putting down Eli[/B].[/quote]

:laughing- You can bank on that!

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Interceptions don't mean squat. Favre leads record books in interceptions -- and yet he's destined for the Hall of Fame and they are talking about Minnesota being considered as a Super Bowl contender if he comes back.

An interception rarely leads to a pick-six -- in fact, a deep interception is like a punt. We all know the fact that Jason Campbell has LESS interceptions means he was dumping it off instead of actually throwing downfield. I'd LOVE for Campbell to have more interceptions this year -- as a surrogate for him actually taking more chances & throwing downfield.

IN FACT, Tom Brady stats for most of his career: avg: 23-26 touchdowns, 12-14 interceptions. Statistics don't tell the whole story, but cannot be ignored. Sadly, Campbell has averaged less than a touchdown per game.

In the NFL, it's about winning. You win by points. Touchdowns clearly matter more. There's just no way you can compare Eli's stats with 60% more touchdowns and say they are similar.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Also, here are Campbell's 3rd down stats (from NFL Total Access):
- completion pct - 58% (31st in league)
- yrds/attempt - 5.9 (25th in league)
- touchdowns - 3 (26th in league)
- Completions >20yds - 5 (28th in league)
- TD (20+ yds) - 0 (last in league)

Again, I hope all those to get better this year. But geez, given Eli's antics in the 4th quarter, I think the answer to the question of who is better if the teams were reversed -- I'd say that Eli may be better than JC.

Before the angry responses -- hey, I love the skins and I think JC will have a great year. I'm just saying that if you were forced to compare the two -- if Eli was here on this team, I think he'd be able to make decisions quicker -- (without the stalwart offensive line that JC requires to be successful), and do better in the 4th quarter.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565933]Also, here are Campbell's 3rd down stats (from NFL Total Access):
- completion pct - 58% (31st in league)
- yrds/attempt - 5.9 (25th in league)
- touchdowns - 3 (26th in league)
- Completions >20yds - 5 (28th in league)
- TD (20+ yds) - 0 (last in league)

Again, I hope all those to get better this year. But geez, given Eli's antics in the 4th quarter, I think the answer to the question of who is better if the teams were reversed -- I'd say that Eli may be better than JC.

Before the angry responses -- hey, I love the skins and I think JC will have a great year. I'm just saying that if you were forced to compare the two -- if [b]Eli was here on this team, I think he'd be able to make decisions quicker -- (without the stalwart offensive line that JC requires to be successful), and do better in the 4th quarter.[/b][/quote]

You must not be familiar with those patented Eli Manning back-footed, eyes closed throws in the face of pressure.

And as to you other post above, 2008 was by far Manning's best season as a professional. He completed 60% of his passes (barely) for the first time and threw nearly 8.5 fewer interceptions than he had averaged the past three seasons (10 vs. 18.33 and 55 total from 2005-2007). Quite honestly we don't want to be comparing Jason Campbell to Eli Manning because Manning is an average quarterback who played on a team that won a Super Bowl.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Cut the f'ing bulsh*t people, Eli is much better than JC. Period!

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

I'll be so happy when the season starts.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Paintrain;565950]I'll be so happy when the season starts.[/quote]

No S**t. My sentiments exactly.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=saden1;565949]Cut the f'ing bulsh*t people, Eli is much better than JC. Period![/quote]

They are both average players, though Manning was slightly above average in 2008.

Doing it by Football Outsiders DVOA over the past three seasons:

Manning:

2006 - Manning (3.9%), Campbell (-0.7%)
2007 - Manning (-13.1%), Campbell (-12.3%)
[COLOR=Black]2008 - Manning ([/COLOR][COLOR=Black]19.7%), Campbell ([/COLOR][COLOR=#0000ff][COLOR=Black]8.3%)[/COLOR][COLOR=Black]

Saying Campbell compares favorably to Eli Manning is not saying Campbell is a great player, it is saying Manning is far from a great player.
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