Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Obviously Orakpo doesn't have any NFL stats, but it seems as the team is going to toy with his athleticism as BAL 'did'. They are listed at the same height and weight, 6'3'' 260lbs. Bottom line, if T-Sizzle can be productive as a stand up OLB (3-4) and a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE, why can't Orakpo? I hope Orakpo isn't listening to all the doubters and using Suggs' success as motivation.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

good point. what is suggs's 40 time?

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

4.61 vs Orakpo's 4.7 on a bad hammy

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/4958.html]SI.com - 2003 NFL Draft - Terrell Suggs[/url]

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=dan_snyder69;562831]good point. what is suggs's 40 time?[/quote]
:laughing2I can't decide how serious this was.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

4-3 and 3-4 makes a big difference. I still hate using Orakpo at SLB. Toss him in next to AH and let him focus on DE.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Daseal;562850]4-3 and 3-4 makes a big difference. I still hate using Orakpo at SLB. Toss him in next to AH and let him focus on DE.[/quote]
I have been mulling over this situation for a while.. I think, (and hope), that if the SAM experiment doesn't bear fruit within the first 5-6 games, that the coaching staff rethinks Orakpo at LB, or swallows their pride enough to realize that this young man has too much talent not to be maximizing on their investment. What I really mean is this: Orakpo is an animal, it is the job of the coaching staff to recognize where he is most effective AND where he can help positionally on the field. I don't want to see Orakpo turn into this years Vernon Gholston...:nono:

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;562852]I have been mulling over this situation for a while.. I think, (and hope), that if the SAM experiment doesn't bear fruit within the first 5-6 games, that the coaching staff rethinks Orakpo at LB, or swallows their pride enough to realize that this young man has too much talent not to be maximizing on their investment. What I really mean is this: Orakpo is an animal, it is the job of the coaching staff to recognize where he is most effective AND where he can help positionally on the field. [B]I don't want to see Orakpo turn into this years Vernon Gholston.[/B]..:nono:[/quote]

I don't there's anyway that happens if he's healthy. One of the knocks on Gholston coming out of college is that he would disappear for games at a time. It seemed he would play hard whenever he felt like it, and then take plays, or even games off. And that lack of worth ethic, or whatever, showed big time in his rookie year. He was so bad he was actually inactive a few times.

Orakpo was perhaps the highest motor player taken in the top half of the 1st round. I think it's very realistic for him to end up in the range of 7-10 sacks. That is if Blache doesn't wet the bed with the way we use him.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Next year, if/when suggs becomes an FA, would you get him and cut Andre carter, or flip him and orakpo around between LB and DE or move suggs to SLB and orakpo to DE? Just curious...

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Nflnick11;562857]Next year, if/when suggs becomes an FA, would you get him and cut Andre carter, or flip him and orakpo around between LB and DE or move suggs to SLB and orakpo to DE? Just curious...[/quote]

I would be absolutely shocked if Ravens actually let him walk; I'm sure Suggs would want to be Ravens for rest of his career.. Unless Rex Ryan convinces him that Jets would be better place..

To answer the thread question; it is way too early to start the comparison.. Suggs have proved himself as an elite player and Orakpo haven't.. Yes, we expect him to be good player or in elite category.. But it would not be fair to compare Orakpo with someone or even Suggs too..

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

To early.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Well there can't be much said IMO regarding the thread title since Rak hasn't played a snap yet. Very curious about his development. I don't think the experiment @ SLB will last long...that said i hope it doesn't go badly just that Rak puts on size quickly enough he grows out of the position and into a lockstock DE (oh and Blache has to make the adjustment too).

Doesn't seem like we're gonna add any more talent at LB :( (would have really liked to see Marcus back again). Fincher was like a mini-Marcus in pre-season last year, if fact the kid always plays w/ a super high motor. I mean there were pre-season games where he seemed to lead the defense. If he continues to impress I would hope Blache gives Fincher a shot in the regular season. For one thing he plays w/ a real mean streak...something we could use.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Nflnick11;562857]Next year, if/when suggs becomes an FA, would you get him and cut Andre carter, or flip him and orakpo around between LB and DE or move suggs to SLB and orakpo to DE? Just curious...[/quote]

The Ravens already let Bart Scott get away. No way in hell Terrell Suggs gets out of Baltimore. Ozzie Newsome is too good of a GM to ever let that happen. I'm not even gonna entertain your scenario unless Suggs hits the market next year. Which isn't going to happen. He's a top tier defensive player in the league right now. There's a reason they didn't bat an eye when Adalius Thomas bolted for NE.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Suggs is a thug, he can stay in Baltimore for all I care.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote]Suggs is a thug, he can stay in Baltimore for all I care.[/quote]

How so?

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

If Orakp ends up at the right end next to Albert then who plays the left end on passing downs? Carter or Wilson, jackson. Also, Tennessee used Albert at d-end on passing situations so do we put Orakp at the right tackle position. With Albert at right end he will definitely get a push from the outside which cold benefit our blitzes from the other side.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Daseal;562871]How so?[/quote]

I could be completely wrong, but I think he's a bit of a dirty player. I've seen a couple of games where he's been flagged for personal fouls, taking some cheap shots at QBs. I know B'more and Pittsburgh hate each other, but I remember one game he got flagged for taking a cheap shot at Big Ben. I looked up to see if I can find stats for most personal fouls, this is the best I could find (but it is from 2 yrs ago)

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510]Flag these guys down when there's a penalty on the play - NFL - ESPN[/url]

Unfortunately I couldn't find anything more recent regarding personal fouls, but it wouldn't surprised me if he was up there. I know the guy is a beast of a player, but he rubs me the wrong way.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;562872]If Orakp ends up at the right end next to Albert then who plays the left end on passing downs? Carter or Wilson, jackson. Also, Tennessee used Albert at d-end on passing situations so do we put Orakp at the right tackle position. With Albert at right end he will definitely get a push from the outside which cold benefit our blitzes from the other side.[/quote]

There are so many options right now. More than we've had in many years. I read where one "expert" said, "If Haynesworth decided to change positions and play DE the rest of his career, he would automatically be the best DE in the NFL." I would love to see some downs with Orakpo at RDE and AH at LDE.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=diehard;562833]4.61 vs Orakpo's 4.7 on a bad hammy

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/4958.html]SI.com - 2003 NFL Draft - Terrell Suggs[/url][/quote]

That wasn't his actual 40 time that was what they thought he would run.
Its well documented that Suggs ran a 'slow' 40.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]That same year, the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year, Terrell Suggs, didn’t run fast for scouts, either. At Arizona State in the fall of 2002, Suggs collected an NCAA-record 24 sacks. But at 6-3, 262 pounds, Suggs was considered too small to be a three-down defensive end. And because he ran a disappointing 4.8 in the 40-yard dash during a private workout that March, Suggs was considered too slow to drop back in coverage as an outside linebacker in the 4-3. Suggs was a “tweaner,” a guy who didn’t belong at any particular position; at least that’s how his measurable qualities sized him up.[/COLOR]
[url=http://www.draftstock.com/site_main/content/view/185/26/]Draft Stock - How important are 40 times?[/url]

Although i would rather see Orakpo start at RDE, i think that he could be good at SAM in fact i think he could be very good.

I don't think Blache intends to use 'Rak like a typical 4-3 SAM/OLB.
Towards then end of the season Blache began playing JT at SAM and put him close to the line of scimmage and the plan was to move him to SAM fulltime in 2009, now i think that Orakpo will fill that role.
Also Blache had success w/ Rosevelt Colvin at OLB w/2 10 sacks seasons.

:food-smil

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Ruhskins;562868]Suggs is a thug, he can stay in Baltimore for all I care.[/quote]

Lol, come on Ruh. You say that like we're in Washington State.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

yea, I thought I read that Suggs ran a 4.8 40 but I can't find the link now.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Suggs is a very good player, and we can only hope Orapko at least reaches his level if not surpass it.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

Again, I'll reiterate that this isn't a "where are Orakpo's skills best" kind of thing. This is just a play now/play later deal.

Maybe one day, Orakpo could be the type of player Suggs is. We can dream. But in 2003, 263 was small for a Rush DE. Now, it's about average. Suggs also got taken in the top-10, so he didn't exactly fall through the NFL Draft floor.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Daseal;562850]4-3 and 3-4 makes a big difference. I still hate using Orakpo at SLB. Toss him in next to AH and let him focus on DE.[/quote]


Now you are comparing apples with apples!!! It is tough to compare players in different systems. Even more tough when you have never seen Orakpo Standing!

I hope he works out!

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=diehard;562830]Obviously Orakpo doesn't have any NFL stats, but it seems as the team is going to toy with his athleticism as BAL 'did'. They are listed at the same height and weight, 6'3'' 260lbs. Bottom line, if T-Sizzle can be productive as a stand up OLB (3-4) and a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE, why can't Orakpo? I hope Orakpo isn't listening to all the doubters and using Suggs' success as motivation.[/quote]

T-Sizzle? :doh:

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Buster;562920]T-Sizzle? :doh:[/quote]

Do you prefer O-Sizzle or O-mazing?

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Ruhskins;562868]Suggs is a thug, he can stay in Baltimore for all I care.[/quote]

What has he done to be considered a thug? I am interested to know..

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Ruhskins;562874]I could be completely wrong, but I think he's a bit of a dirty player. I've seen a couple of games where he's been flagged for personal fouls, taking some cheap shots at QBs. I know B'more and Pittsburgh hate each other, but I remember one game he got flagged for taking a cheap shot at Big Ben. I looked up to see if I can find stats for most personal fouls, this is the best I could find (but it is from 2 yrs ago)

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510"]Flag these guys down when there's a penalty on the play - NFL - ESPN[/URL]

Unfortunately I couldn't find anything more recent regarding personal fouls, but it wouldn't surprised me if he was up there. I know the guy is a beast of a player, but he rubs me the wrong way.[/quote]

So since he rubs you the wrong way and he is vicious on the ball field and takes cheap shop he's a thug. Dude are you serious?.....

Do you know what a thug is?...I can direct you to some..lol

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;562957]So since he rubs you the wrong way and he is vicious on the ball field and takes cheap shop he's a thug. Dude are you serious?.....

Do you know what a thug is?...I can direct you to some..lol[/quote]

What is wrong with me having the opinion of not liking a player who tends to get a his fair share of personal fouls? I never said anything about Suggs ability to play, just his attitude and his personal fouls. He could have changed now, but I've seen in some Ravens boards that discipline was an issue with him in his first couple of years in the league.

Sheesh, I hear people here call Redskins players worst things, and I call Terrell Suggs a thug (which once again, my opinion, I'm just some yahoo on a soapbox in the internet) and people get all worked up over it?

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

When I think of thug, I think more of someone's off-field behavior. As far as I know, Suggs isn't a problem off the field. He's aggressive on the field, but to me that's not a thug.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=SmootSmack;562972]When I think of thug, I think more of someone's off-field behavior. As far as I know, Suggs isn't a problem off the field. He's aggressive on the field, but to me that's not a thug.[/quote]

That makes sense. Alright, maybe I should say he is overly aggressive on the field and this has led to a number of personal fouls. Or maybe that he's a dirty player (although it seems that Rodney Harrison has that title according to some ESPN articles last year).

I am still curious to see where he'd rank in regards to personal fouls (and actually Rodney Harrison for that matter), so if anyone finds it, let me know.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Buster;562920]T-Sizzle? :doh:[/quote]

I love that nickname

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Buster;562920]T-Sizzle? :doh:[/quote]

T-Thuggy? LOL. :laughing2

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=30gut;562876]That wasn't his actual 40 time that was what they thought he would run.
Its well documented that Suggs ran a 'slow' 40.

[I]That same year, the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year, Terrell Suggs, didn’t run fast for scouts, either. At Arizona State in the fall of 2002, Suggs collected an NCAA-record 24 sacks. But at 6-3, 262 pounds, Suggs was considered too small to be a three-down defensive end. And because he ran a disappointing 4.8 in the 40-yard dash during a private workout that March, Suggs was considered too slow to drop back in coverage as an outside linebacker in the 4-3. Suggs was a “tweaner,” a guy who didn’t belong at any particular position; at least that’s how his measurable qualities sized him up.[/I]

[url=http://www.draftstock.com/site_main/content/view/185/26/]Draft Stock - How important are 40 times?[/url]

Although i would rather see Orakpo start at RDE, i think that he could be good at SAM in fact i think he could be very good.

I don't think Blache intends to use 'Rak like a typical 4-3 SAM/OLB.
Towards then end of the season Blache began playing JT at SAM and put him close to the line of scimmage and the plan was to move him to SAM fulltime in 2009, now i think that Orakpo will fill that role.
Also Blache had success w/ Rosevelt Colvin at OLB w/2 10 sacks seasons.

:food-smil[/quote]Great point 'gut.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Ruhskins;562968]What is wrong with me having the opinion of not liking a player who tends to get a his fair share of personal fouls? I never said anything about Suggs ability to play, just his attitude and his personal fouls. He could have changed now, but I've seen in some Ravens boards that discipline was an issue with him in his first couple of years in the league.

Sheesh, I hear people here call Redskins players worst things, and I call Terrell Suggs a thug (which once again, my opinion, I'm just some yahoo on a soapbox in the internet) and people get all worked up over it?[/quote]

Pacman is a thug, Plexico is a thug, Suggs is a player with a mean streak. I do remember Sean Taylor getting his share of personal fouls. Does that make him a thug?

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=RedskinMike;562987]Pacman is a thug, Plexico is a thug, Suggs is a player with a mean streak. I do remember Sean Taylor getting his share of personal fouls. Does that make him a thug?[/quote]

Good point, there is confusion because the term thug is overused now. As long as the mean streak stays on the field i have no problems.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=RedskinMike;562987]Pacman is a thug, Plexico is a thug, Suggs is a player with a mean streak. I do remember Sean Taylor getting his share of personal fouls. Does that make him a thug?[/quote]

Pacman and Plaxico are morons. And yes, Sean Taylor used to get his share of personal fouls and he had discipline problems (i.e. spitting incident) , I'm sure there were people (non-Redskins fans) who would have alluded to Taylor's discipline problems as an issues and not want him on their team. So maybe I misused the term "thug" but I just don't understand why people are getting so worked up over this. I mean it's not like Suggs is a freaking Redskins, sheesh.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=Zerohero;562994]Good point, there is confusion because the term thug is overused now.[B] As long as the mean streak stays on the field i have no problems[/B].[/quote]

I agree. A defensive player should have a "mean streak" on the field. That's football Bubba. As long as there's no late "cheapshots" with the intent to seriously injure someone. That's for wussies and chumps.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=53Fan;563044]I agree. A defensive player should have a "mean streak" on the field. That's football Bubba. As long as there's no late "cheapshots" with the intent to seriously injure someone. That's for wussies and chumps.[/quote]

Hate to bring it up, but while we're debating "overly aggressive" vs. "thug"... AH had his share of oft replayed on-the-field incidents.. I'm willing to overlook it now that he's a Redskin, but I remember being really disgusted that he was only suspended a couple of games for stomping on a guy's face.. Let's hope it's behind him after $100 mil.

Point is, perhaps we're more forgiving when the "thugs" are on our side. Either way, there's a good aggression that doesn't hurt anyone but kicks ass on the field. I sure love seeing Romo & TO getting the living snot smacked out of them..

ps. I miss Sean Taylor, what a freaking defense it could have been. sigh.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=ethat001;563051]Hate to bring it up, but while we're debating "overly aggressive" vs. "thug"... AH had his share of oft replayed on-the-field incidents.. I'm willing to overlook it now that he's a Redskin, but I remember being really disgusted that he was only suspended a couple of games for stomping on a guy's face.. Let's hope it's behind him after $100 mil.

Point is, perhaps we're more forgiving when the "thugs" are on our side. Either way, there's a good aggression that doesn't hurt anyone but kicks ass on the field. I sure love seeing Romo & TO getting the living snot smacked out of them..

ps. I miss Sean Taylor, what a freaking defense it could have been. sigh.[/quote]

Well, I think there was a comment or two about AH's on the field and off the field issues as he was coming here. I think you're right that we tend to be forgiving of the overly aggressive players when they have on a Redskins uniform, I mean that's just natural. (Although, the funny thing that Suggs is not a Redskins, and my criticism of his overly aggressiveness has touched off some nerves in here apparently) I think (and hope) that AH's issues are behind him and well I think he got a lot of heat for the stomping incident.

In case anyone cares, T. Suggs has 12 personal foul penalties (i.e. unnecessary roughness, roughing the passer, etc., etc.). I think right now Adrian Wilson leads the league with 17. Still can't find a website with this info though, had to do a manual count.

Re: Terell Suggs vs Brian Orakpo
 

[quote=ethat001;563051]Hate to bring it up, but while we're debating "overly aggressive" vs. "thug"... AH had his share of oft replayed on-the-field incidents.. I'm willing to overlook it now that he's a Redskin, but I remember being really disgusted that he was only suspended a couple of games for stomping on a guy's face.. Let's hope it's behind him after $100 mil.

Point is, perhaps we're more forgiving when the "thugs" are on our side. [B]Either way, there's a good aggression that doesn't hurt anyone but kicks ass on the field. I sure love seeing Romo & TO getting the living snot smacked out of them..

ps. I miss Sean Taylor, what a freaking defense it could have been. sigh[/B].[/quote]

Yeah. I don't condone what AH did and I think he regrets it. To be perfectly honest, I probably would have been a lot more outraged if it wasn't a Cowgirl that he stomped. Just being honest. If he continued playing like that I wouldn't even want him on our team, but I think he's put that kind of stuff behind him and has moved on to be better than doing that type of thing. I agree that the type of aggession you're talking about is a good thing. I personally think it makes you a better player. Especially on defense. Fear and intimidation is a part of the game and can be very beneficial to a player. Of course you must have talent to go along with it. Sean Taylor embodied talent and intimidation. The job he did on T.O.'s head, amongest others, was remarkable. I miss him and I wish I could stop thinking about "what could have been". He was truly a great football player.