FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote]Earlier this year, an NFL head coach challenged me on something I said about an organization being "great."

He told me to crunch the numbers. So I did.
As a result, we have our first annual NFL organization rankings here on FOXSports.com.
Every NFL team was graded on eight categories:

Owner
Front office
Head coach
Coaching staff
Quarterback
Offense
Defense
Intangibles[/quote]

click here for the rest of the article and rankings.....

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9601836/Ranking-the-NFL:-Insider-grading-on-every-franchise?forum_key=StoryComments&topic_key=9601836&page_no=27]NFL - Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise - FOX Sports on MSN[/url]

So what do you guys think about these rankings? I actually find it interesting the Skins were ranked 24th. The way these rankings are set up I would of guessed the Skins would of been in the bottom 5.

Heres my Top 5 and Bottom 5 based off of the 8 categories....

Top 5 Franchises (I actually agree with the top 5 I just have them in a different order)
1. Steelers
2. Patriots
3. Eagles
4. Giants
5. Ravens

Bottom 5 Franchises
1. Lions
2. Bengals
3. Browns
4. Broncos
5. Raiders

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

I'd put us at 12

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

yeah too bad adam schein is a dipshit who is consistent only in that he is wrong year in and year out on his predictions for how the season will turn out...lets think about this for a second, he said the redskins scored low for coach, owner, and whatever VC is. While I agree that the owner and VC are not the greatest, consider the fact that Jim Zorn, in his first season, with a new system in the NFC East, hands down toughest division in the NFL (no team was under .500), went 8-8. If they were in a different division, they would easily have been the 1 or 2 team and being touted as a "team to watch" going forward. Ohh, did I mention that Adam Schein is a tard?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Nflnick11;560839]I'd put us at 12[/quote]

I actually had us 27th. They just escaped my bottom 5.

When I factored all 8 of the categories it was hard for me to rank the Skins highly.

Owner - Id say average at best when you factor in everything. Snyder spends to win and thats always a positive. At the sametime his track record over the years in making decisions is very questionable to say the least.

Front office - Id also say its average at best. The front office has made solid moves this offseason. I think the track record yet again though over the years leaves doubt into how good the FO really is or ever can be.

Head coach - Probably one of the worst head coaches in the league going off of last season. Zorn does have the potenial to grow into the role of Head Coach.

Coaching staff - Solid staff overall but there are some question marks and areas for concern.

Quarterback - Bottom 10 in the league as of today. Campbell has the potenial to improve at QB just like Zorn does at HC.

Offense - Last season had its highs and lows. As of right now the offense has alot of question marks. The QB, WR, and OL positions all have different aspects which could turn positive or negative.

Defense - 4th ranked defense from last season gets better with the additions of Haynesworth and Orakpo.

Intangibles - Right now everything is against the Skins. From playing in the tough NFC East to the lack of wins over the years.

The only category where the Skins rank in the top 10 of the league imo is on defense. I do think our team has alot of potenial and could rise up this list to the middle of the pack in the next year or two.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;560841]Head coach - Probably [B]one of the worst head coaches in the league[/B] going off of last season. Zorn does have the potenial to grow into the role of Head Coach.[/quote]

So you're telling me that Zorn, a [B]rookie coach[/B] who went 8-8 in one of the toughest conferences in the league, was worst than Jack Del Rio (5-11), Herm Edwards (2-14), Romeo Crennel (4-12), Marvin Lewis (4-11-1), Mike McCarthy (6-10), Scott Linehan/Jim Haslett (2-14), Lane Kiffin/Tom Cable (5-11), and Mike Holmgren (4-12)?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Ruhskins;560843]So you're telling me that Zorn, a [B]rookie coach[/B] who went 8-8 in one of the toughest conferences in the league, was worst than Jack Del Rio (5-11), Herm Edwards (2-14), Romeo Crennel (4-12), Marvin Lewis (4-11-1), Mike McCarthy (6-10), Scott Linehan/Jim Haslett (2-14), Lane Kiffin/Tom Cable (5-11), and Mike Holmgren (4-12)?[/quote]

Basing off of how the Skins offense performed in the 2nd half as of right now yes hes one of the worst Head Coaches in the NFL. The problem imo is last season was his first calling plays in the NFL. He looked good early on but into the 2nd half when teams knew everything he was doing he couldnt adjust. If you cant adjust to what the defense does as a offensive playcaller thats a huge problem.

I do realize he was a rookie Head Coach last season. I also realize he can improve in his 2nd season. Thats why I said he has the potenial to grow into the HC position. As of right now though I have to say hes one of the worst coaches in the NFL until he can show me he can adjust when a defense locks into what he is doing.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;560844]Basing off of how the Skins offense performed in the 2nd half as of right now yes hes one of the worst Head Coaches in the NFL. The problem imo is last season was his first calling plays in the NFL. He looked good early on but into the 2nd half when teams knew everything he was doing he couldnt adjust. If you cant adjust to what the defense does as a offensive playcaller thats a huge problem.

I do realize he was a rookie Head Coach last season. I also realize he can improve in his 2nd season. Thats why I said he has the potenial to grow into the HC position. As of right now though I have to say hes one of the worst coaches in the NFL until he can show me he can adjust when a defense locks into what he is doing.[/quote]

So know offensive line had anything to do with it?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=WaldSkins;560847]So know offensive line had anything to do with it?[/quote]

The offensive line had problems and Campbell had problems with his accuracy as the season went along. I do think the biggest problem the Skins had in the 2nd half of 2008 though was Zorns inability to adjust to what defenses threw at him.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Cruching the Numbers is, as of today, officially a cliche.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Why does the quarterback get factored into organizational rankings? Is he supposed to transcend the rest of the team or something? And aren't a lot of these redundant categories, with no mutual exclusivity? And I'm glad he's ratings intangibles on a 1-10 scale, therefore making them quite tangible.

This has got to be the stupidest exercise in the history of the internet.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

The off-season is long and painful, but we will survive.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560852]Why does the quarterback get factored into organizational rankings? Is he supposed to transcend the rest of the team or something? And aren't a lot of these redundant categories, with no mutual exclusivity? And I'm glad he's ratings intangibles on a 1-10 scale, therefore making them quite tangible.

This has got to be the stupidest exercise in the history of the internet.[/quote]

Seriously. I've been biting my fist trying to resist the temptation to add a post to a thread dedicated to something so unbelievably stupid.

I understand there isn't much to talk about around the NFL right now, but if you're going to make a "grading" article that is this bush league, at least have the integrity to title it "I have nothing better to do and I'm pulling this out of thin air."

The funny thing is Adam Schein calls this "Insider grading." Insider?? Inside what? A vaccuum that is void of all football knowledge?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

The thing is: actually grading organizations isn't hard. A team's win percentage over a period of time is a terrible measure of it's QB, or it's head coach, or it's offense, but it's an excellent measure of the overall effectiveness of the organization. If you want to account for factors like market size, that's pretty easy as well. You can create a function that divides win percentage by gross revenues. Not at all hard.

Instead, we had arbitrary number crunching to arrive at more or less the same outcome. The rankings appear to be just fine, it's just an incredibly stupid methodology to waste everyone's time.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560855]The thing is: actually grading organizations isn't hard. A team's win percentage over a period of time is a terrible measure of it's QB, or it's head coach, or it's offense, but it's an excellent measure of the overall effectiveness of the organization. If you want to account for factors like market size, that's pretty easy as well. You can create a function that divides win percentage by gross revenues. Not at all hard.

Instead, we had arbitrary number crunching to arrive at more or less the same outcome. [B]The rankings appear to be just fine, it's just an incredibly stupid methodology to waste everyone's time.[/B][/quote]

Agreed. It screams "obligatory space filler" or "I get paid by the word." Or both.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

The idea that QB, owner, and "intangibles" are all measurable things that can be compared with each other on a 10 point scale is so mind-bogglingly retarded that reading that article just shaved 5 points off of my IQ.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560852]Why does the quarterback get factored into organizational rankings? Is he supposed to transcend the rest of the team or something? [/quote]

I didnt understand why the QB got its own category. I also found that puzzling.

I did like the article because of how it factored in not just players but Owners/FO/Coaching into a ranking of the top franchises. I do think it is pretty easy to see which teams are well run and that have talent (Steelers, Patriots) compared to the teams that have problems from the top down like the (Lions, Bengals). So I think he did go overboard by ranking the 8 different categories on a 1-10 scale.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=wilsowilso;560853]The off-season is long and painful, but [B]we will survive.[/B][/quote]

I sure hope so, all I can say is I'm just glad I will be busy with working at camps and other stuff.. Enough to make me to stay away from football for a while, or I would be gone insane with this all football nonsenses..

I like the efforts some guys re trying to make the off season more "fun", like Orakpo is.. But it's not same :(

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

People get too high and low based on the opinions of other people. I happen to be an Adam Schein fan, I remember last season he told VC to his face he didn't see the Redskins making the playoffs or winning more than 6 games that year. Turns out he was pretty damn close to correct, but early on in the season he said he was flat out wrong.

Listen, they're predictions. If anyone was really, really good at them, they'd be in Vegas, not working for a magazine or sitting on a message board. During the offseason most everything is based off the previous season. People like to read that type of stuff, where does my team rank! Then they read it and if they're not high enough, cry about how we don't get respect. Something I truly don't understand as a Redskins fan -- what the hell have we done over the past 10 years to deserve any respect in the offseason.

All I want is for this team to go out on the field, win games, and go to the playoffs on a regular basis. Then we can complain about not getting respect or being ranked low. Until the Redskins prove the critics wrong, I can't fault the critics for questioning us.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Daseal;560861]People get too high and low based on the opinions of other people. I happen to be an Adam Schein fan, I remember last season he told VC to his face he didn't see the Redskins making the playoffs or [SIZE=3][B]winning more than 6 games that year.[/B][/SIZE] Turns out he was pretty damn close to correct, but early on in the season he said he was flat out wrong. [/quote]This is not a prediction that can be "close to correct." It's a hard range. Once the team wins it's 7th game, the prediction becomes 100% incorrect.

But the point is the article is based on a retarded premise, and was a complete waste of time, [U]not that he was wrong[/U], necessarily. Smart people will make incorrect predictions all the time. A smart person would not have even attempted to publish something like this. Just turn it into a subjective list. That's all it is anyway.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Gtripp, his prediction also said 'miss the playoffs' which we did. I don't think the author considers it any more than a subjective list. Any time you do something like this, that is all it can be. He's putting his opinion down based on what he's seen in the NFL. In the grand scheme of NFL predictions, I consider +/- 2 games pretty solid if you can do it relatively regularly.

I just can't get up in arms. People say we should be 12th? Based on what. I would love to see your list. A team that has made the playoffs twice in 10 years being 12th? I guess I just don't understand why people feel like the Redskins are constantly being slighted. Here's an idea, win and we'll stop being overlooked. It's that whole you have to earn respect type deal.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

I like grapes....

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Daseal;560864]Gtripp, his prediction also said 'miss the playoffs' which we did. I don't think the author considers it any more than a subjective list. Any time you do something like this, that is all it can be. He's putting his opinion down based on what he's seen in the NFL. In the grand scheme of NFL predictions, I consider +/- 2 games pretty solid if you can do it relatively regularly.

I just can't get up in arms. People say we should be 12th? Based on what. I would love to see your list. A team that has made the playoffs twice in 10 years being 12th? I guess I just don't understand why people feel like the Redskins are constantly being slighted. Here's an idea, win and we'll stop being overlooked. It's that whole you have to earn respect type deal.[/quote]I'm glad that he was able to accurately forecast that we would be one of 20 teams to miss the playoffs. That's difficult to do, you know ;)

The last two years, I had the Redskins at 10-6, and then 8-8 preseason. So I missed by one game in two years. Schein missed by at least two games last year, but if you read between the lines, he probably missed by 3 or 4. When you predict a team "will not win more than 6 games", you probably aren't predicting a 6-10 season.

+/- 2 games is good accuracy in baseball. In football, it's not even outside the statistical definition of random chance, at least in between 6 and 10 victories (i.e. predicting a 2-14 team would win 4 games is a much better prediction than calling a 10-6 team to win 8 games). Saying he was close on us last year is being incredibly charitable with your definition of close. He missed badly. It's not a crime, it's just a bad prediction.

You know, the Redskins have made the playoffs 3 out of 10 times since 1999. Out of 32 teams (31 of which have competed in all ten seasons, the other has yet to make the postseason) playoff berth frequency is as follows:

*denotes SB winner

9 - Colts*
7 - Eagles
6 - Pats*, Bucs*, Titans, Steelers*, Seahawks, Giants*
5 - Packers, Rams*, Ravens*
4 - Jets, Dolphins, Chargers, Broncos, Vikings, Cowboys
3 - [B]Redskins[/B], Panthers, Falcons, Bears, Raiders, Jaguars
2 - Saints, Chiefs, 49ers
1 - Bills, Browns, Bengals, Cardinals, Lions
0 - Texans [7 years]

Lions and Bills tie for the longest playoff drought, followed by the Texans, and then the 49ers, Raiders, and Browns tie for third.

17 teams can sport more playoff appearances in the last ten years than the Redskins, or roughly half the league. But I threw in the SB winner distribution to show that all the SB winners of the past ten years are consistently in the playoffs, and that the difference between the 4 appearance teams and 3 appearance teams may just be chance. It's not like the Dolphins or the Vikings have been a consistently better team over the last ten years than the Redskins. They've just been to the playoffs one additional time.

So you want a list where the Redskins are a top 12 organization?

1) Colts
2) Eagles
3) Pats
4) Steelers
5) Giants
6) Bucs
7) Titans
8) Seahawks
9) Ravens
10) Rams
11) Packers
12) Redskins

Unless you are going to put the Cowboys or Chargers ahead of us...and even if you do, couldn't one argue that the Rams should lose some steam for being extra dysfunctional since the SB loss in 2001?

Look, the distribution makes my point clear: the average NFL organization has been to the playoffs 3-4 times in the past 10 years. The best of the best are there consistently, and no SB winner since 1999 has been there less than half the time. So, I don't think anyone is trying to argue we're elite, but once you get outside the ten best teams, we "win" as much as anyone else does.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

This just hit me: if someone predicted that, in 2008: "[B]the Redskins will win 10 or more games, and will not pick in the top ten in the 2009 draft[/B]," they were just as correct in their prediction as Adam Schein was. Yet, Daseal feels that he was pretty darn close. Ergo, bolded prediction would also have to be pretty darn close. For consistent principals sake.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Schein is a dope.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Anywhere in the low to mid 20s seems about right. This is a bottom third of the league team but there are a few teams worse.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Daseal;560861]People get too high and low based on the opinions of other people. I happen to be an Adam Schein fan, I remember last season he told VC to his face he didn't see the Redskins making the playoffs or winning more than 6 games that year. Turns out he was pretty damn close to correct, but early on in the season he said he was flat out wrong.

Listen, they're predictions. If anyone was really, really good at them, they'd be in Vegas, not working for a magazine or sitting on a message board. During the offseason most everything is based off the previous season. People like to read that type of stuff, where does my team rank! Then they read it and if they're not high enough, cry about how we don't get respect. Something I truly don't understand as a Redskins fan -- what the hell have we done over the past 10 years to deserve any respect in the offseason.

All I want is for this team to go out on the field, win games, and go to the playoffs on a regular basis. Then we can complain about not getting respect or being ranked low. Until the Redskins prove the critics wrong, I can't fault the critics for questioning us.[/quote]

I read your posts, and then I read your sig...and, in the words of Bart Simpson, the ironing is delicious.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560867]I'm glad that he was able to accurately forecast that we would be one of 20 teams to miss the playoffs. That's difficult to do, you know ;)

The last two years, I had the Redskins at 10-6, and then 8-8 preseason. So I missed by one game in two years. ...[/quote]

Great analysis man, bottom line, Skins need to go out and perform

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Teams that I couldn't rank above the Skins that Schein does:

Jets, Bears, Chiefs, Texans, Bills, 49ers.

So I would have the Skins closer to 18 or so.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Mattyk72;560877]Teams that I couldn't rank above the Skins that Schein does:

Jets, Bears, Chiefs, Texans, Bills, 49ers.

So I would have the Skins closer to 18 or so.[/quote]

I agree Matty, and I think at the most we should be ranked 11th. I think we are better than these teams: 49ers, Bills, Texans, Chiefs, Bears, Seahwaks, Vikings, Saints, Cowboys, Jets, Dolphins, and Cardinals. A few of these teams we beat last year(Saints, Cardinals, Seahawks) and I think we've had a better offseason than some others (Cowboys, Jets, Bills).

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

The Falcons had a good year last year, but #6 seems pretty high for them in my opinion.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=SmootSmack;560882]The Falcons had a good year last year, but #6 seems pretty high for them in my opinion.[/quote]

Yeah and how are they above the Colts?

Makes no sense.

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=wilsowilso;560853]the off-season is long and painful, but we will survive.[/quote]

lol!

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

[quote=Mattyk72;560885]Yeah and how are they above the Colts?

Makes no sense.[/quote]

Yeah that is baffling enough to discredit the whole thing.


Ehhh...who cares about this stuff anymore?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

Is it just me or is Adam Shein one of the most annoying football commentators out there?

I just cannot take anyone even remotely seriously who talks more fake than Joe Beninati.

Thoughts?

Re: FoxSports: Ranking the NFL: Insider grading on every franchise
 

His voice kills me.