Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

I am one frustrated Redskins fan. Here's what I see.

We've gone back to the same bad habits that have cost us draft picks and cap space and that I believe will surely doom us to continued mediocrity. The Jason Taylor fiasco, another of our customary panic moves, cost us dearly in draft picks. Albert Haynesworth, as great as he is, represents a whopping chunk of our cap space which seems to have precluded our making other FA moves.

Meanwhile, we have holes to fill - big holes. We need a RT, a SLB, a RDE, OL backups, a Kicker, a Punter, a PR, and maybe more. Right now, it looks like we might bring back Daniels and Washington. That's nice, but, at this point in their careers they're only stop-gap solutions.

Even with Haynesworth, this doesn't look to me like a team that is poised to make a playoff run in the tough NFC East. Sure, I wanted Haynesworth, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb fan who loves to watch great football players do their thing in B&G. I don't need to have a plan. But shouldn't the FO have one? If they do, I just can't see it.

If you can detect a plan in all this, clue me in. Also, what do [B]you[/B] think the plan should be?

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

Don't get down just yet. It could be worse. We will address either DE, OT or SLB with our 1st pick in the draft. There will still be some players cut before training camp that we can pick up to hopefully help us in the other positions.

The AH signing helps us with the DE position as well. Whoever lines up next to him will have a huge advantage even if he isn't a stud. Heyer/Jansen are can handle the position (short term) if we go SLB or DE in the draft.

As for K, P & PR I think we could be better but I wouldn't worry just yet. ARE sucks so hopefully we will use either Moss or Hall to return punts.

Don't forget that our defense was pretty good last year without AH. Both Washington and JT had bad years and missed a lot of time. I also think by bringing back Dock we have intantly upgraded the OL.

We still have holes that need to be addressed but I am holding out hope!

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536626]They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.[/quote]

What do you know? Listen, let me tell you how it works...they use a Ouija board

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536627]What do you know? Listen, let me tell you how it works...they use a Ouija board[/quote]

...and a magic 8 ball.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

Matty:

Be careful here. You might give away the fact that you have a secret camera located in the Skins' FO Conference Room. If they find it, they'll confiscate it. ;)

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

There is not much to say to defend the Jason Taylor decisions (both the trade and the release). As you say, it was a panic move prompted by not making long-term plans at DE and lacking proper depth at that postion/not having confidence in your depth (Demetric Evans) who probably could have done the job. Then you cut Taylor and lose any potential for reaping some reward for the high price that you paid for the guy. Now if you can use that money to fill in some holes, specifically then maybe it works out alright.

The money for Haynesworth, on the other hand, is far less significant. Most people who know think the the NFL will go uncapped in 2010 and will probably not come back after that. So you spend the big money on the best player (by far) in the 2009 class anticipating 1) no cap in future years 2) the uncapped rules will significantly water down the 2010 free agent class ... it might be one of the worst ever with the extra tags and extended time to UFA. Plus, Haynesworth is a game changer in both the run and pass games, a dominant line player that the Redskins have not had since ... Plus, the cap hit on Haynesworth this year is only $7 million. That really is not inhibiting the Skins ability to make moves and they got the very best player available in UFA while he is still in the prime of his career. Don't buy all the $100 million hype, this was a good move. At the outset of free agency I probably would have said that I'd rather get Canty at a lower price, but having Haynesworth at an average cap hit of $9.7 million/year over the next four years is not that bad a price and it's not like Canty was coming here for chump change. So basically I think the FO did have a plan with Haynesworth ... Taylor, not so much. If we could do more Haynesworth deals and get rid of those Taylor-type trades (i.e. giving away picks) then we'd really be doing something.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

We haven't had one of these in a bit. Who is gonna bite?

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=FRPLG;536633]We haven't had one of these in a bit. Who is gonna bite?[/quote]

right here.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;536631] So basically I think the FO did have a plan with Haynesworth ... Taylor, not so much. If we could do more Haynesworth deals and get rid of those Taylor-type trades (i.e. giving away picks) then we'd really be doing something.[/quote]

Well, if they follow a step forward with a step back, then they're not going anywhere.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

They have a plan, a marketing one. Football comes second with this owner. Always has, always will. Not to say I don't like a lot of the moves so far but the Giants have definitely killed us in the offseason to date.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

The old......DART plan, ehh................Sound wisdom!
The old .....OUIJA board plan, ehh........Sound wisdom!
The old .......MAGIC 8 ball plan, ehh......Sound wisdom!
-Vinnie C.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

I understand being upset with some of the moves the FO has made, but theyve made far more good personnel moves since the 2007-2008 offseason than bad ones. Was the trade for Jason Taylor a panic move? Yes - but in the end, the only significant thing the move cost us was the 2nd round pick in this years draft. Could we have taken a great player with that pick? Possibly. But its also possible the guy we would have taken with the pick would be a bust - theres no way of knowing.

Overall, i'm very please with last years draft. We had all 22 starters from 2007 coming back, so we were able to pick up alot of project and depth guys - guys who didnt need to start right away. I think atleast 6 of the 2008 draft class are poised to play a significant role for the team in 2009.

As for this offseason - so far its been phenomenal. Free agency is two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively.

Right now our main needs are SLB, RDE, ol depth and RT (Kickers are positions we can address at any point.) We very likely will bring back Phillip Daniels to help out at DE. We may bring back Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall as well. So our immediate needs at RDE, SLB and backup OL are more or less solved. If we address RT somewhere in free agency, then we can enter the draft with the ability to pick the best player available if we stay at 13. Thats a great position to be in.

You say the FO doesnt have a plan? I see a front office that has already dramatically improved the main weaknesses of our team last year - the lines. I see a team that is getting younger and better. I see a team that is poised to add one stud player or several quality depth/future starters in this years draft. I see a team that will enter the uncapped 2010 season with a near-full complement of draft picks and very few glaring needs.

Sure the FO has missed on a couple things, but, with the exception of the Taylor trade, this team has showed a clear commitment to building for a stable, successful future the past two years. In my opinion,the franchise is moving in a better direction now than ive seen it move in a long, long time.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=dblanch66;536628]...and a magic 8 ball.[/quote]

You guys are all wrong! They use tea leaves.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536626]They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.[/quote]

Aahhh.
That is why our draft last year sucked. I hope their aim is better this year.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;536647]I understand being upset with some of the moves the FO has made, but theyve made far more good personnel moves since the 2007-2008 offseason than bad ones. Was the trade for Jason Taylor a panic move? Yes - but in the end, the only significant thing the move cost us was the 2nd round pick in this years draft. Could we have taken a great player with that pick? Possibly. But its also possible the guy we would have taken with the pick would be a bust - theres no way of knowing.

Overall, i'm very please with last years draft. We had all 22 starters from 2007 coming back, so we were able to pick up alot of project and depth guys - guys who didnt need to start right away. I think atleast 6 of the 2008 draft class are poised to play a significant role for the team in 2009.

As for this offseason - so far its been phenomenal. Free agency is two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively.

Right now our main needs are SLB, RDE, ol depth and RT (Kickers are positions we can address at any point.) We very likely will bring back Phillip Daniels to help out at DE. We may bring back Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall as well. So our immediate needs at RDE, SLB and backup OL are more or less solved. If we address RT somewhere in free agency, then we can enter the draft with the ability to pick the best player available if we stay at 13. Thats a great position to be in.

You say the FO doesnt have a plan? I see a front office that has already dramatically improved the main weaknesses of our team last year - the lines. I see a team that is getting younger and better. I see a team that is poised to add one stud player or several quality depth/future starters in this years draft. I see a team that will enter the uncapped 2010 season with a near-full complement of draft picks and very few glaring needs.

Sure the FO has missed on a couple things, but, with the exception of the Taylor trade, this team has showed a clear commitment to building for a stable, successful future the past two years. In my opinion,the franchise is moving in a better direction now than ive seen it move in a long, long time.[/quote]

Thanks BHA, you even made me feel better.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;536651]You guys are all wrong! They use tea leaves.[/quote]

Leaves or bags? I heard someone say Vinny was a teabagger. Whatever that means.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=53Fan;536659]Leaves or bags? I heard someone say Vinny was a teabagger. Whatever that means.[/quote]

They call him the Tyrannical Teabagger! :rofl:

Seriously though, it is too early to be worried about this. The draft hasn't happened yet, which is a big piece of the offseason planning (yes, even for our team). I think you need to wait until the pre-season to get a sense of how these changes are panning out.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

The FO really doesn't have long term strategy. We have, count them 4 picks in the draft this year. Let's take for example some random top performing, consistent teams in the NFL and determine how many picks they have:

Pitts: 8 1.32, 2.32, 3.32, 4.32, 5.32, 6.32, 7.17 (From TB), 7.32
Indy: 7 1.27, 2.29, 3.28, 4.27, 5.29, 6.28, 7.28
SD: 6 1.16, 3.14, 4.13, 5.12, 6.16, 7.15
Philly: 11 1.21, 1.28 (From CAR), 2.21, 3.21, 4.21, 5.5 (From CLE), 5.17 (From NYJ), 5.21, 6.21, 6.22 (From MIN), 7.21
Tenn: 6 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30, 6.30, 7.30
NE: 1.23, 2.2 (From KC), 2.15 (From SD), 2.26, 3.25, 4.24, 5.23, 6.26, 7.26

We have the lowest amount of picks in the NFL at 4. NO has 4 too. Cleveland has 5. You may say we have a different philosophy. Until I see our team as a consistent winner under said philosophy I will tell you it doesn't work. When we start being a consistently good team, i'll change my tune.

What else is there to say? We have some good talent but also have more gaps than draft picks.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=53Fan;536659]Leaves or bags? I heard someone say Vinny was a teabagger. Whatever that means.[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;536618]I am one frustrated Redskins fan. Here's what I see.

We've gone back to the same bad habits that have cost us draft picks and cap space and that I believe will surely doom us to continued mediocrity. The Jason Taylor fiasco, another of our customary panic moves, cost us dearly in draft picks. Albert Haynesworth, as great as he is, represents a whopping chunk of our cap space which seems to have precluded our making other FA moves.

Meanwhile, we have holes to fill - big holes. We need a RT, a SLB, a RDE, OL backups, a Kicker, a Punter, a PR, and maybe more. Right now, it looks like we might bring back Daniels and Washington. That's nice, but, at this point in their careers they're only stop-gap solutions.

Even with Haynesworth, this doesn't look to me like a team that is poised to make a playoff run in the tough NFC East. Sure, I wanted Haynesworth, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb fan who loves to watch great football players do their thing in B&G. I don't need to have a plan. But shouldn't the FO have one? If they do, I just can't see it.

If you can detect a plan in all this, clue me in. Also, what do [B]you[/B] think the plan should be?[/quote]

I'm bored today, so I will try (even though I am not a huge Vinny or Danny fan) to convince you that there may be a plan.

Exhibit A: Get younger. Since the start of free agency, the Redskins have released or not retained 35 year old Pete Kendall, 32 year old Marcus Washington, 36 year old Phillip Daniels, 34 year old Jason Taylor and 33 year old Shawn Springs. While Washington, Daniels and Taylor haven't been replaced (yet) chances are we will draft a replacement in the 1st round of the draft. We got 7 years younger at LG with Dockery and 8 years younger at CB with Hall. If we draft DE/OLB at #13, which we absolutely should, that's a significant age difference too. Also, if Heyer gets the start at RT, he's at least 9 years younger than Jansen.

Exhibit B: Build through the draft. I know this is funny to some Redskins fans, but building thru the draft is a long term strategy, not to bear immediate results. Do you want to know why our rookies played like rookies last year? Because they were rookies! If after 3 years, if they mirror '08 production then call them busts. We had 10 draft picks last year, 9 made the team. Yeah the Taylor trade cost us 2 picks but the same people bitching about that now were celebrating the possibilities when we made the trade. Sometimes trades don't work out. Show me a team that's 100% in their trading history.

Exhibit C: Not the 'same old Redskins'. Yep, we spent a ton of money in the first 3 days of free agency. Yep, we got the biggest fish in the pond. Like John Clayton said, since when is adding the best defensive player in the league a negative thing? The media and some fans that just parrot what they hear bemoaned all the money spent on Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery. So we go out and get the best DL in the game. We retain a 25 year old Pro Bowl CB and re-acquire a LG that fills 2 needs (getting younger and more athletic on the OL). Again, tell me how that's a negative. The 'same old Redskins' would have signed Haynesworth, traded this year's #1 and next year's #3 for Julius Peppers, signed Terrell Owens and would be trying to trade for Jay Cutler. That's the 'same old Redskins.'

Do we have a plan? It seems like we do. Will it work? Who knows but rather than listening to the 'same old Redskins detractors' look at the evidence with non biased eyes and decide for yourself.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=53Fan;536659]Leaves or bags? I heard someone say Vinny was a teabagger. Whatever that means.[/quote]

LMAO! Google it.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=redsk1;536664]The FO really doesn't have long term strategy. We have, count them 4 picks in the draft this year. Let's take for example some random top performing, consistent teams in the NFL and determine how many picks they have:

Pitts: 8 1.32, 2.32, 3.32, 4.32, 5.32, 6.32, 7.17 (From TB), 7.32
Indy: 7 1.27, 2.29, 3.28, 4.27, 5.29, 6.28, 7.28
SD: 6 1.16, 3.14, 4.13, 5.12, 6.16, 7.15
Philly: 11 1.21, 1.28 (From CAR), 2.21, 3.21, 4.21, 5.5 (From CLE), 5.17 (From NYJ), 5.21, 6.21, 6.22 (From MIN), 7.21
Tenn: 6 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30, 6.30, 7.30
NE: 1.23, 2.2 (From KC), 2.15 (From SD), 2.26, 3.25, 4.24, 5.23, 6.26, 7.26

We have the lowest amount of picks in the NFL at 4. NO has 4 too. Cleveland has 5. You may say we have a different philosophy. Until I see our team as a consistent winner under said philosophy I will tell you it doesn't work. When we start being a consistently good team, i'll change my tune.

What else is there to say? We have some good talent but also have more gaps than draft picks.[/quote]

So you're basing this on this year alone that the FO office doesn't have a long term strategy? Ok let's take a look at the team's lack of long term strategy:

- Jason Campbell - drafted by the team, now a good starter
- Chris Cooley - drafted by the team - developed into a damn good player
- Derrick Dockery - drafted by the team - we lost him, but got him back
- Laron Landry - drafted by the team - became a starter almost immediately
- Rocky McIntosh - drafted by the team - became a starter eventually
- Chris Samuels - drafted by the team - Pro Bowl tackle
- Carlos Rogers - drafted by the team - became a solid starter
- Golston & Montgomery - drafted by the team - solid backups
- 2008 Draft Picks
* Kelly/Thomas - potential replacements for our 30something wideouts
* Davis - Can/will become a compliment to our Pro Bowl TE
*Horton - a diamond in the rough who became an immediate starter
*Brennan - potential solid back up, could become a starter some day

While the Redskins have made terrible moves in the past by giving away draft picks in the past, they have drafted and developed players as well. And last year we drafted 5 potential starters, so if that's not "future planning" I don't know what is then.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536669]So you're basing this on this year alone that the FO office doesn't have a long term strategy? Ok let's take a look at the team's lack of long term strategy:

- Jason Campbell - drafted by the team, now a good starter
- Chris Cooley - drafted by the team - developed into a damn good player
- Derrick Dockery - drafted by the team - we lost him, but got him back
- Laron Landry - drafted by the team - became a starter almost immediately
- Rocky McIntosh - drafted by the team - became a starter eventually
- Chris Samuels - drafted by the team - Pro Bowl tackle
- Carlos Rogers - drafted by the team - became a solid starter
- Golston & Montgomery - drafted by the team - solid backups
- 2008 Draft Picks
* Kelly/Thomas - potential replacements for our 30something wideouts
* Davis - Can/will become a compliment to our Pro Bowl TE
*Horton - a diamond in the rough who became an immediate starter
*Brennan - potential solid back up, could become a starter some day

While the Redskins have made terrible moves in the past by giving away draft picks in the past, they have drafted and developed players as well. And last year we drafted 5 potential starters, so if that's not "future planning" I don't know what is then.[/quote]

I just have my fingers crossed big time that Kelly and Thomas don't turn into Rod Gardner and Cliff Russell.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

The free agent acquisition comparison between 2000 and 2009 is getting quite old.

In 2000, Snyder went for broke and signed Sanders, Smith, Carrier and George, respected veterans (well, George maybe not) who were definitely on the down slope of their careers. Carrier and Sanders lasted a season, George 2 games into his 2nd, and Smith lasted 4 years. It was Super Bowl or Bust in 2000, and it fell flat on their faces.

Fast forward to 2009. BHA pretty much sums the portfolio up in [url=http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/28861-somebody-please-try-convince-me-fo.html#post536647]his post[/url], but these guys are nowhere near the Georges and Sanderses that Snyder blew money on 9 years ago. The Skins are finally learning from their experience and doing what they can to fill the holes.

And while the Taylor situation is very questionable, I honestly think it will work out in the end. It opened up cap room and allowed the Skins to spread his 8+ million around to more than one player.

Do I have complete faith in the FO? Not really. However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=GMScud;536670]I just have my fingers crossed big time that Kelly and Thomas don't turn into Rod Gardner and Cliff Russell.[/quote]

Damn it...me too...way to kill my hopes. LOL.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536626]They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.[/quote]

LMAO... I think this is worthy of sig-status.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

I believe part of the plan is to not let on that there is a plan, thereby confusing the opposition and rendering all their plans moot. Thus the lack of known plan leads directly to the lack of a need for a real plan, hence the best laid plan is no plan at all.

[quote=BA]Aw, Hannibal, is this one of your plans supposed to go down 1, 2, 3? You always forget 4, 5, and 6.[/quote]

[quote]Murdock: Just think, if we get a pardon, we may never have to eat a nuckle sandwich again.
BA: I wouldn't bet on it crazy man! Looks like Hannibal is on the jazz again.
Murdock: No, you tell me, right now you tell me, right in my face you tell me, that you don't have a plan!
Hannibal: Well, I... I was thinking like Berny and George, what are we gonna do, when this thing's over? I mean what are we really qualified to do?
Face: Go after thugs in a park...
Hannibal: And outlawed motorcycle gangs, organized crime figures, why there's a world of slime balls out there.
Murdock: I knew it! I just knew you had a plan!
Hannibal: Comforting, isn't it.
BA: I'll get the van! [/quote]

[quote=Hannibal]I love it when a plan comes together. [/quote]:)

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=GMScud;536667]LMAO! Google it.[/quote]

I was just trying to lighten things up. :)

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536626]They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.[/quote]

Matty I'm curious to know what you or any of the other mods think of our front office. It seems like you guys take the side of the FO. Maybe I'm wrong but it just kinda seems that way. Do you actually think they're good at what they do?

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=redsk1;536664]The FO really doesn't have long term strategy. We have, count them 4 picks in the draft this year. Let's take for example some random top performing, consistent teams in the NFL and determine how many picks they have:

Pitts: 8 1.32, 2.32, 3.32, 4.32, 5.32, 6.32, 7.17 (From TB), 7.32
Indy: 7 1.27, 2.29, 3.28, 4.27, 5.29, 6.28, 7.28
SD: 6 1.16, 3.14, 4.13, 5.12, 6.16, 7.15
Philly: 11 1.21, 1.28 (From CAR), 2.21, 3.21, 4.21, 5.5 (From CLE), 5.17 (From NYJ), 5.21, 6.21, 6.22 (From MIN), 7.21
Tenn: 6 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30, 6.30, 7.30
NE: 1.23, 2.2 (From KC), 2.15 (From SD), 2.26, 3.25, 4.24, 5.23, 6.26, 7.26

We have the lowest amount of picks in the NFL at 4. NO has 4 too. Cleveland has 5. You may say we have a different philosophy. Until I see our team as a consistent winner under said philosophy I will tell you it doesn't work. When we start being a consistently good team, i'll change my tune.

What else is there to say? We have some good talent but also have more gaps than draft picks.[/quote]


The only draft pick we're really missing from this years draft that is the result of a questionable move is the 2nd for Taylor. If Taylor had performed as most expected he would have, he would have been well worth the pick.

We lost our 4th rounder because we traded for Kendall 2 years ago - trading a 4th round pick, two years in advance, for a consistent starter and a guy who was the 2nd best lineman on the team for 2 years was a solid move.

Trading our 7th round pick for James last year was an extremely good move as well. getting a young former first round DE for a 7th round pick was a low risk/high reward move that just didnt work out. ,most of the time, guys drafted in the 5th-7th rounds dont make active rosters and fairly often, they dont even make practice squads.

You criticize the FO and say they dont have a plan because we only have 4 picks this year - well we had 10 picks last year. Save Philly, thats more than any of the teams you mention have this year. Having draft picks doesnt mean anything - its how a team uses them. We did an excellent job in the draft last year (we didnt need starters, we needed backups, special teamers, and future starters). Morocco Brown is by all appearances extremely adept at finding "hidden gems" in the lower rounds and in undrafted players - look at how many of our undrafted practice squad players were signed to other teams active rosters last year for proof. I'm confident we'll select good players this year too.

One final thing - overall, theres little difference in talent in players drafted in the 4th round and guys who are undrafted free agents anyways. We have 2 picks in rounds 1-3 and theres a very good chance we can trade down and turn that into 3 or 4 picks. What we do in those rounds will have the most significant impact on the team in 2009. Round 4-undrafted free agents is usually just practice squad/training camp material, so our only having picks in the 5th and 6th rounds shouldnt hurt us much at all.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536626]They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.[/quote]

My last time playing superstar mode i was defensive player of the year after four years and the skins lowballed me in free agency, must have known i wouldn't pick another team /sigh. On a funnier note Campbell is normally out of the league within 3 years when i play franchises.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;536688]Matty I'm curious to know what you or any of the other mods think of our front office. It seems like you guys take the side of the FO. Maybe I'm wrong but it just kinda seems that way. Do you actually think they're good at what they do?[/quote]

Yes we're all front runners and support the front office no matter what.

I'm not going to even bother getting into it because it's been covered plenty of times before.

If that's the way you really think you're not paying very much attention.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;536688]Matty I'm curious to know what you or any of the other mods think of our front office. It seems like you guys take the side of the FO. Maybe I'm wrong but it just kinda seems that way. Do you actually think they're good at what they do?[/quote]

I'm not going to speak for the other mods, but for myself I think

-They do a lot of things well that are overlooked by the team's fans because we all want 16-0 seasons with Lombardi trophies at the end every year

-Sometimes it may seem like I go overboard to defend the FO, but it's sometimes to provide the other perspective to the constant bashing

-I think if people took a step back they would see that a lot of other teams (even the best) make bad decisions and have bad luck. The idea that everyone else is doing it right and we're doing it wrong is naive

-A lot of people here are loving what the Giants did this offseason (so far). But we needed to improve our offensive and defensive lines and we've taken steps to do that. The Giants needed to find a WR and what have they done to address that? It's early and I expect they'll (although they deny it) use their draft picks and/or talent on the defensive line to get that WR. But they haven't yet.

-Are they good at what they do? In many ways yes. We've made several good choices in the draft and free agency. I know the common refrain is "Well how hard is to know to draft Sean Taylor?" Well, a lot of teams have made bad choices in the first round. And I know most have written off Thomas and Kelly. Well, that really just goes back to point #1.

-Could they be better? Of course. I'm not naive to mistakes they've made. The Duckett trade was disatrous and unneccesary, as one example. But we see a Chad Rinehart drafted in the 3rd round not starting and suddenly the thought is OMG, the Redskins suck! They don't know how to even draft a 3rd rounder...yeah, but we drafted Chris Cooley in the 3rd round, we drafted Derrick Dockery in the 3rd round (but we tend to forget that). We see Devin Thomas not playing much his first year and we think This moron was a waste of a pick! But at the same time we want the FO to build through the draft, be patient, and not go for the quick fix all the time

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

Great post Smoot. It seems alot of people arent happy no matter what the Redskins front office does. We've been hit or miss for many years but lately, we've been hitting alot more than we've been missing. The FO has shown improvement. The FO is showing patience. We [I]appear[/I] to be moving in the right direction.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;536699]Great post Smoot. It seems alot of people arent happy no matter what the Redskins front office does. We've been hit or miss for many years but lately, we've been hitting alot more than we've been missing. The FO has shown improvement. The FO is showing patience. We [I]appear[/I] to be moving in the right direction.[/quote]

I can dig it.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;536689]The only draft pick we're really missing from this years draft that is the result of a questionable move is the 2nd for Taylor. If Taylor had performed as most expected he would have, he would have been well worth the pick.

We lost our 4th rounder because we traded for Kendall 2 years ago - trading a 4th round pick, two years in advance, for a consistent starter and a guy who was the 2nd best lineman on the team for 2 years was a solid move.

Trading our 7th round pick for James last year was an extremely good move as well. getting a young former first round DE for a 7th round pick was a low risk/high reward move that just didnt work out. ,most of the time, guys drafted in the 5th-7th rounds dont make active rosters and fairly often, they dont even make practice squads.

You criticize the FO and say they dont have a plan because we only have 4 picks this year - well we had 10 picks last year. Save Philly, thats more than any of the teams you mention have this year. Having draft picks doesnt mean anything - its how a team uses them. We did an excellent job in the draft last year (we didnt need starters, we needed backups, special teamers, and future starters). Morocco Brown is by all appearances extremely adept at finding "hidden gems" in the lower rounds and in undrafted players - look at how many of our undrafted practice squad players were signed to other teams active rosters last year for proof. I'm confident we'll select good players this year too.

One final thing - overall, theres little difference in talent in players drafted in the 4th round and guys who are undrafted free agents anyways. We have 2 picks in rounds 1-3 and theres a very good chance we can trade down and turn that into 3 or 4 picks. What we do in those rounds will have the most significant impact on the team in 2009. Round 4-undrafted free agents is usually just practice squad/training camp material, so our only having picks in the 5th and 6th rounds shouldnt hurt us much at all.[/quote]

My example was this years draft but the FO has had a long experience of not using the draft to build a team. I bet you if I researched who has had the most picks in the last 5 years we would find the consistently good teams.

I'm not saying that just b/c you have alot of picks automatically means you are going to be successful. I'm just saying our history of not using the draft has produced what? Mediocre football. Holes, gaps, and aging players.

Hey, i'm not saying you should ever trade draft picks. It makes sense sometimes. However we've been less than frugal over DS's tenure w/ the draft.

Yes, we had 10 picks last year. That was great, but again if i do the research we probably have had the fewest picks in the NFL over the last 5-10 years.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;536669]So you're basing this on this year alone that the FO office doesn't have a long term strategy? Ok let's take a look at the team's lack of long term strategy:

- Jason Campbell - drafted by the team, now a good starter
- Chris Cooley - drafted by the team - developed into a damn good player
- Derrick Dockery - drafted by the team - we lost him, but got him back
- Laron Landry - drafted by the team - became a starter almost immediately
- Rocky McIntosh - drafted by the team - became a starter eventually
- Chris Samuels - drafted by the team - Pro Bowl tackle
- Carlos Rogers - drafted by the team - became a solid starter
- Golston & Montgomery - drafted by the team - solid backups
- 2008 Draft Picks
* Kelly/Thomas - potential replacements for our 30something wideouts
* Davis - Can/will become a compliment to our Pro Bowl TE
*Horton - a diamond in the rough who became an immediate starter
*Brennan - potential solid back up, could become a starter some day

While the Redskins have made terrible moves in the past by giving away draft picks in the past, they have drafted and developed players as well. And last year we drafted 5 potential starters, so if that's not "future planning" I don't know what is then.[/quote]

I think you are seeing thru the b&g glasses. Yes, we have had some good draft picks over the last 5 years. We have some talent. I love some of our picks. We miss on some but so does everyone. We just don't have enough picks. You make a list of our core guys, w/ most i really like but w/ some who haven't done jack. We're talking philosophy not a few good draft picks.

Since you want to compare though lets compare a team or two that i mentioned...

SD: Rivers, sproles, Cromartie, Vincent Jackson, Merriman, Michael Turner (no longer there), good oline, good dline, Gates, Castillo

That was w/out doing research.

We don't have as much talent as you might think. I like our guys too but at this moment we don't have the talent that alot of the upper tier teams do.

Bottom line, building thru the draft is a proven winner. Not building thru the draft is not a proven winner. Until i see otherwise I'll have a problem w/ throwing away draft picks.

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

[quote=redsk1;536717]I think you are seeing thru the b&g glasses. Yes, we have had some good draft picks over the last 5 years. We have some talent. I love some of our picks. We miss on some but so does everyone. We just don't have enough picks. You make a list of our core guys, w/ most i really like but w/ some who haven't done jack. We're talking philosophy not a few good draft picks.

[B]Since you want to compare though lets compare a team or two that i mentioned...

SD: Rivers, sproles, Cromartie, Vincent Jackson, Merriman, Michael Turner (no longer there), good oline, good dline, Gates, Castillo

That was w/out doing research.
[/B]
We don't have as much talent as you might think. I like our guys too but at this moment we don't have the talent that alot of the upper tier teams do.

Bottom line, building thru the draft is a proven winner. Not building thru the draft is not a proven winner. Until i see otherwise I'll have a problem w/ throwing away draft picks.[/quote]

It was pretty obvious that it was w/out research, and I'm thinking it doesn't really prove much. At least I don't understand the point you are trying to prove and how the list you made proves, especially when the list that was written "through B&G glasses" certainly proves that we have used the draft to a certain degree and Ruhskins added a note on each player as to why he is on the list. Maybe you could expand on the one team you listed and say how that disproves Ruhskins point?

Re: Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.
 

Also interesting you use SD, who has 6 picks, they are without their 2nd just like us, and have their 4th and 7th that we are missing (the 4th was for Kendall). So what are the odds that their 4th round pick fills a starting line spot immediately for 2-3 years, or that their 7th even makes the team? The draft is great for bodies, and I would always love to have all the picks, but this year that's just not the case, c'est la guerre.