NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

Magnets under the gas pedals, not very wise. Joe will not tolerate this type of conduct on his prized race team.

The guilty team members, crew chiefs/parties involved will pay a heavy price for there uncalled for actions. Yea, I know if your not cheating your not winning........crap

[url=http://sports.aol.com/nascar/story/_a/bbdp/gibbs-racing-faces-penalties-for/136768]Gibbs Racing Faces Penalties for Cheating - AOL Sports[/url]

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

Yeah, I don't think JG will take long in showing those responsible the door. This is nowhere near his M.O. However, if you were to poll all the teams in the garage I'd bet a months's salary that you would not find another team that doesn't stretch the rules...it's all part of the NASCAR culture. If this is true though, this was a little more than "stretching" the rules and there will be hell to pay.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

If they got caught cheating it starts from the Top, so he is responsible, he shouldnt get a free ride cause he's JG..........please

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Im with DK -- can't Give Gibbs all the credit for the good and deflect all blame for the bad. I'm sure it's a mixture of both.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

If this weren't Joe Gibbs, I'd say the owner had no idea what was going on. They aren't that involved in the day-to-day stuff.

However, I know Joe Gibbs likes to be involved, so perhaps he knew -- but, I doubt it. It's a dirty thing to do, and I think JG is a man of character. I don't know him personally though, so maybe I'm wrong.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

It's more than likely a case of a couple of crew members doing what they should not have done without any prodding from or knowledge by Joe or JD. However, if one would like to put the blame on a higher up in the organization it should be JD long before Joe. Joe Gibbs is not nearly as involved with the inner workings in the garage to the extend that JD Gibbs is.

Joe Gibbs involvement is more in terms of big picture/long term dealings (bringing in Kyle Busch, letting Tony Stewart go), sponsorships, marketing.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

I don't follow racing in the least, but Gibbs didn't let Stewart go did he? Didn't Stewart get an offer to more or less be a big part of his own racing company?

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;465298]I don't follow racing in the least, but Gibbs didn't let Stewart go did he? Didn't Stewart get an offer to more or less be a big part of his own racing company?[/QUOTE]

I don't mean letting him go like he fired him. I mean they spent months discussing Stewart's future with the team, and they discussed possible ownership opportunities within JGR for Stewart. Ultmately though the decisions was agreed upon that Stewart would go his own way, and Gibbs agreed to let him out of his contract a year early

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;465296]It's more than likely a case of a couple of crew members doing what they should not have done without any prodding from or knowledge by Joe or JD. However, if one would like to put the blame on a higher up in the organization it should be JD long before Joe. Joe Gibbs is not nearly as involved with the inner workings in the garage to the extend that JD Gibbs is.

Joe Gibbs involvement is more in terms of big picture/long term dealings (bringing in Kyle Busch, letting Tony Stewart go), sponsorships, marketing.[/QUOTE]

What I am not understanding is how this could happen across two separate teams. These kinds of issues are higher up issues...people that are involved in the whole team (JGR) not individual teams. This means JGR has a serious issue. I do not think Joe Gibbs himself would make this kind of call. However it would not shock me to see someone Gibbs trusts very much to be the culprit.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

Doesn't everyone "cheat" in NASCAR? I have always thought the "cheaters" were just the ones who have been caught? It's so institutional that it's almost not cheating to do it.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;465298]I don't follow racing in the least, but Gibbs didn't let Stewart go did he? Didn't Stewart get an offer to more or less be a big part of his own racing company?[/QUOTE]

yes 50% of hass cnc racing ..now stewart haas racing.
smoke decided to leave..my 2 cents worth on this deal is whoever did this should and will be shown the door looking for employment elsewhere...joe gibbs and JGR are too good to cheat unlike other organizations but i,d be lying if i said they don,t cheat..heck all of them cheat.....but JGR cheating it,s hard to put into words really but this is nascar afterall and sometimes you have to push the envelope...

wait and see and should be interesting...

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;465300]I don't mean letting him go like he fired him. I mean they spent months discussing Stewart's future with the team, and they discussed possible ownership opportunities within JGR for Stewart. Ultmately though the decisions was agreed upon that Stewart would go his own way, and Gibbs agreed to let him out of his contract a year early[/QUOTE]

right on smootsmack... it was hard on smoke to leave an organization he has spent his whole career with thus far and then decided to leave on his terms..
and gibbs did indeed agreed on the release of his final year....

it,s what he wanted to do be owner/driver..

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

If your not cheatin', your not tryin'.....-Joe Gibbs

............I think not

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

So this idea isn't substantiated by anything, let alone a rumor, but lets just say the culprit is Joe Gibbs' son, do you think Gibbs would have a hard time letting him go if that was true?

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;465292]If this weren't Joe Gibbs, I'd say the owner had no idea what was going on. They aren't that involved in the day-to-day stuff.

However, I know Joe Gibbs likes to be involved, so perhaps he knew -- but, I doubt it. It's a dirty thing to do, and I think JG is a man of character. I don't know him personally though, so maybe I'm wrong.[/quote]
Yea, I bet Gibbs is under those cars turning wrenches and fighting his guts out!

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[quote=mooby;465539]So this idea isn't substantiated by anything, let alone a rumor, but lets just say the culprit is Joe Gibbs' son, do you think Gibbs would have a hard time letting him go if that was true?[/quote]

First of all, I strongly doubt Joe OR JD had any knowledge of this magnet under the gas pedal to begin with at all!

Secondly, do you actually think Joe would fire his son that for all practical purposes runs the racing team and has been for years and will continue to after Joe fully retires....? Hell no he wouldn't, that's family. I think almost everyone here knows how important family is to Joe, that ain't happening in this lifetime!

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;465359]Doesn't everyone "cheat" in NASCAR? I have always thought the "cheaters" were just the ones who have been caught? It's so institutional that it's almost not cheating to do it.[/QUOTE]

No, not everyone in NASCAR cheats. That's why they have MASSIVE inspections after races to catch people cheating.

All of you that feel it's ok to cheat, be sure to look your son or daughter in the eye and tell them if you're not cheating, you're not trying!

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

From my limited experience with NASCAR, it's no secret that every team tests the limits of the rulebook to the fullest. That's not to say they cheat, just everyone is looking for whatever competitive advantage they can find and exploit the grey areas of the rules to do so. It's been that way since the dawn of the sport, and it's a big reason why there are such massive inspections before and after each race. In some cases, the "cheating" has led to new rules and innovations for the sport over the years

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[quote=SmootSmack;465658]From my limited experience with NASCAR, it's no secret that every team tests the limits of the rulebook to the fullest. That's not to say they cheat, just everyone is looking for whatever competitive advantage they can find and exploit the grey areas of the rules to do so. It's been that way since the dawn of the sport, and it's a big reason why there are such massive inspections before and after each race. In some cases, the "cheating" has led to new rules and [B]innovations[/B] for the sport over the years[/quote]

Yea thats right was that a dipole, quadrupole a sextupole or just one of those cheapie magnets off the refrigerator under that gas pedal..?

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

50k Fines and crew chiefs were suspended indefinitely. Also cost both drivers 150 points. Should be lesson learned the old fashioned way.

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/nationwide/news/story?id=3544268"]ESPN - Stewart, Logano each docked 150 points; crew chiefs suspended - Racing[/URL]

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;465739]50k Fines and crew chiefs were suspended indefinitely. Also cost both drivers 150 points. Should be lesson learned the old fashioned way.

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/nationwide/news/story?id=3544268"]ESPN - Stewart, Logano each docked 150 points; crew chiefs suspended - Racing[/URL][/QUOTE]

The crew members have been suspended by JGR for at least the rest of this season plus they are levying monetary fines on them.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;465658]From my limited experience with NASCAR, it's no secret that every team tests the limits of the rulebook to the fullest. That's not to say they cheat, just everyone is looking for whatever [b]competitive advantage[/b] they can find and exploit the grey areas of the rules to do so. It's been that way since the dawn of the sport, and it's a big reason why there are such massive inspections before and after each race. In some cases, the "cheating" has led to new rules and innovations for the sport over the years[/QUOTE]

There is a big difference between finding a competitive advantage and cheating. The magnets were cheating plain and simple.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;465807]There is a big difference between finding a competitive advantage and cheating. The magnets were cheating plain and simple.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that line is a big as you think. I believe the feeling in the garage is that if they don't say you can't do it then go for it. The magnets are obviously outside the spirit of the rules but I'd bet the idea was hatched out of a mindset of competitive adavantge and not cheating.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;465826]I don't think that line is a big as you think. I believe the feeling in the garage is that if they don't say you can't do it then go for it. The magnets are obviously outside the spirit of the rules but [b]I'd bet the idea was hatched out of a mindset of competitive adavantge and not cheating.[/b][/QUOTE]

If that were true, the fines / penalties would not have been so severe.

Even the rookie NASCAR fans know you can't add or delete items to a car.

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

I think the fines levied by NASCAR sound more severe than they are. The docking of points is irrelevant, that was Stewart's final Nationwide race of the year. And neither he nor Logano is racing for a Nationwide title this year. Even with the penalty, JGR is still solidly in first place in owner standings. The biggest deterrent is really to Logano in that he won't get to work with his crew for the rest of the season (but that was JGR's decision).

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[quote=SmootSmack;465844]I think the fines levied by NASCAR sound more severe than they are. The docking of points is irrelevant, that was Stewart's final Nationwide race of the year. And neither he nor Logano is racing for a Nationwide title this year. Even with the penalty, JGR is still solidly in first place in owner standings. The biggest deterrent is really to Logano in that he won't get to work with his crew for the rest of the season ([B]but that was JGR's decision[/B]).[/quote]

Yes that was a JGR's decision, and a smart one. If I had to guess that one came from the Top down, I would have to think Joe made the final call on that one.

And I agree with it, very smart business move. Crisis management!

Re: NASCAR: JGR caught cheating
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;465837]If that were true, the fines / penalties would not have been so severe.

Even the rookie NASCAR fans know you can't add or delete items to a car.[/QUOTE]

I think you're being a litle naive on this man. NASCAR can't look like they condone cheating even though it is entrenched in the entire industry. When cheaters get caught they get hammered. The question is though how many don't get cuaght? I'd be an awful lot. And you don't see NASCAR going on a Goodellesque manhunt.