Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE]The way we hear it, Manningham, despite handling the situation poorly at the Combine with little guidance, is viewed as less of a character risk than Talib, who has been removed from more draft boards than Manningham, based on conversations PFW has had with nine NFL teams.[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2008/wwhi040808.htm]NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly[/url]

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

Talib definitely sounds risky.

[QUOTE]“There is no way I’d touch (Talib),” one team told PFW. “He’s gotten into a lot of trouble, and he still does not get it.”

“He’s got a laundry list of issues,” another team executive said of Talib's off-the-field behavior. “He’s not a one-time offender. Give a guy like him money, and it never gets better. It only gets worse.”[/QUOTE]

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

Drop to fourth maybe?

I'd be OK with that.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

one time weed thing isnt that bad. Luis Castillio admitted using steriods and he was a 1st round pick

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

Fred Smoot had some of the same questions when he came out...But Talib was abused by Jordy Nelson and Maurice Purify like he stole something the last few years. I was staying away from him before this came out

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

This may be good news for us. Didn't Smoot fall into the 2nd round because of weed issues. He turned out to be a solid player for a 2nd rounder. If Talib falls into the 2nd or 3rd round, he's a steal.

Check out his story, are there any issues in 2007-2008, if not roll the dice with a 2nd rounder or lower, no 1st though.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

Warren Sapp, Amobi Okoye, and Calvin Johnson all faced similar issues. The concern with Talib seems to be the recurrence and more importantly his blatant disregard.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;438354]Warren Sapp, Amobi Okoye, and Calvin Johnson all faced similar issues. The concern with Talib seems to be the recurrence and more importantly his blatant disregard.[/quote]

Sapp is the name that always hits me when this stuff comes out at draft time. Sapp fell to 12th & we bypassed him w/the 3rd pick that year for who? Michael Westbrook

I know it's futile to do the coulda, shoulda w/the draft, but that was a draft that epitomized norvelle's term here. We desparately needed help at most all positions on defense, yet he really wanted the big wideout that would be the next M. Irvin.

I digress, I am surprised to hear about Talib. all I'd heard before was that he was a sharp & good guy.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=DGreene28;438345]Fred Smoot had some of the same questions when he came out...But Talib was abused by Jordy Nelson and Maurice Purify like he stole something the last few years. I was staying away from him before this came out[/quote]

I'm so tired of the Jordy Nelson slurping. Talib got beaten on one play by Nelson, and that one stinkin play is everyone's reference for why we shouldn't draft him.

But repeatedly failing drug tests and not caring about it something to be concerned with. It'll be fun to see Talib's status in Kiper's newest mock draft. He had him jump from #21 to #7 last week. Oops Mel.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

If you smoke pot on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, in my opinion, you're a bad-character guy and have no place on the team (I'll take the Joe Gibbs school of thought anyday). Only exception would be if you're an absolutely unbelievable talent like a Calvin Johnson.

If you admit to smoking pot, but indicate that it's a one-time thing, I'm still going to red-flag you. I wouldn't rule out drafting you, but I'd insist on doing a lot more homework on you. I'd be talking with your high school coaches, the parents of your high school friends, your college coaches, your parents, everybody.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=GMScud;438366]I'm so tired of the Jordy Nelson slurping. Talib got beaten on one play by Nelson, and that one stinkin play is everyone's reference for why we shouldn't draft him.

But repeatedly failing drug tests and not caring about it something to be concerned with. It'll be fun to see Talib's status in Kiper's newest mock draft. He had him jump from #21 to #7 last week. Oops Mel.[/quote]

Jordy had a huge day against Talib who lined up across from him on almost every play:

10 REC,137YDS, 1 TD
You could see the speed issue there on the Nelson TD


He had an even worse performance vs Maurice Purify of Nebraska:

7 REC,158 YDS,3 TD


Talib tried to jam Purify to no avail on 2 of the TD and the ball was lofted over his head for easy TDs.

He looked really bad in these 2 games. If you watch just those 2 games you will not want to spend a 1st or 2nd on him

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Schneed10;438370]If you smoke pot on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, in my opinion, you're a bad-character guy and have no place on the team (I'll take the Joe Gibbs school of thought anyday). Only exception would be if you're an absolutely unbelievable talent like a Calvin Johnson.

If you admit to smoking pot, but indicate that it's a one-time thing, I'm still going to red-flag you. I wouldn't rule out drafting you, but I'd insist on doing a lot more homework on you. I'd be talking with your high school coaches, the parents of your high school friends, your college coaches, your parents, everybody.[/quote]

NFL teams believe that about 80-90 percent of players coming into the league have smoked marijuana.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=DGreene28;438375]NFL teams believe that about 80-90 percent of players coming into the league have smoked marijuana.[/quote]

Have smoked or DO smoke?

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Schneed10;438378]Have smoked or DO smoke?[/quote]

Have smoked.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

I definitely wouldn't equate smoking pot with bad character. A lot depends on the individual situation.

If we're talking about a chronic user that's failed multiple tests, that's a problem and that's someone that would definitely fall off my draft chart. In this case the bad character thing might hold water.

If someone admits to having done it in the past and they've never tested positive, I wouldn't call that a big issue. There are probably more guys that fall in this category than not.

If someone failed one test but has been clean since, it's a situation to be mindful of but I wouldn't knock someone off my draft chart because of it.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=DGreene28;438375]NFL teams believe that about 80-90 percent of players coming into the league have smoked marijuana.[/quote]

And I'd say a large percentage of people in general have smoked pot.

IMHO, who the f cares if someone smokes pot? It says very little about one's character. If it weren't illegal there would be much less stigma about it then alcohol, cuz weed wont kill ya . . . ever!

It is illegal, however, and noone wants their players getting in some stupid legal trouble that they could easily avoid. What I don't get is that I have had several friends pass drug tests that they rightfully shouldn't have; there are ways to get around it. So it seems like guys that get caught up in this shit have an attitude like "whatever, Im a baller, I can do what I want," and THAT is what is dangerous. It shows lack of maturity and respect for authority.

If I'm about to pay you millions of dollars to play ball, you sure as shit better be able to quit smoking pot, and if you don' want to, fine! I don't give a shit, but at least lie to me and say you'll quit, don't you fucking get caught, and for God's sake don't run your mouth about it.

In the end, I guess I too would be wary of drafting such a player, not because of the pot per-se but because of the lack of maturity.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

I used to blaze every day, but haven't in years. I had to pass a test to get my job & I can pass one to keep it if need be. Granted I have a lot of years between me & those older days, but in the world of pro sports these guys are forced to grow up quickly, cause if they don't they risk losing their career or lots of $.

I'm not saying that it's not a red flag, it is, but to me it's more about how mature the player is & how prepared he is to be a pro. Off the field Collegiate sports are a sheltered environment, pro sports aren't.

The article sounded pretty reasonable to me; Talib drew red flags because he seems nonchalant & immature about the issue, while Manningham has AT LEAST gotten some good legal/agent help to try & squash the situation.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=DGreene28;438379]Have smoked.[/quote]

Yeah that's my point. I don't mind if you've tried it once or twice, just about everybody in this world has. Or even if you smoked a lot when you were a freshman in college or whatever, that doesn't affect my draft decision either. All I want to know is whether you've given that shit up or not.

If you're testing positive, or admitting to it, I'm going to do crazy homework on you to ensure you're a hard worker and someone who will be dedicated enough to the team to give that crap up.

I just want to be comfortable that you're a good teammate who will put the team first. Knowing that the team needs you, and knowing that smoking is illegal and can get you banned from games, if you STILL decide to smoke pot while knowing all that? Yes, you certainly are a bad character guy.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Schneed10;438396]Yeah that's my point. I don't mind if you've tried it once or twice, just about everybody in this world has. Or even if you smoked a lot when you were a freshman in college or whatever, that doesn't affect my draft decision either. All I want to know is whether you've given that shit up or not.

If you're testing positive, or admitting to it, I'm going to do crazy homework on you to ensure you're a hard worker and someone who will be dedicated enough to the team to give that crap up.

I just want to be comfortable that you're a good teammate who will put the team first. Knowing that the team needs you, and knowing that smoking is illegal and can get you banned from games, if you STILL decide to smoke pot while knowing all that? Yes, you certainly are a bad character guy.[/quote]

makes sense to me

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

I have a general distaste for marijuana and for those who smoke it (sorry), but I'm looking at this strictly through a GM's eyes:

- Smoking pot can get you banned from games.
- If I draft you, I want you available and accountable to your teammates.
- So if you smoke pot, you're risking your availability.

QED: Not the kind of guy I want on my team.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Schneed10;438398]I have a general distaste for marijuana and for those who smoke it (sorry), but I'm looking at this strictly through a GM's eyes:

- Smoking pot can get you banned from games.
- If I draft you, I want you available and accountable to your teammates.
- So if you smoke pot, you're risking your availability.

QED: Not the kind of guy I want on my team.[/quote]

Agreed and it more of a problem that he thinks the first time he smoked doesn't count. Basically like the one official said it seems like he just doesn't "get it". I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar apology letter from Talib soon after he gets word of this article.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

I wouldn't touch either of these guys. Manningham has a lot of growing up to do. He may be a good pro someday but it's going to take him a few years. Talib has trouble written all over him. No thanks.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

Randy Moss anyone? The only reason I'd have reservations about weed smokers is that it's against league policy, and they could miss games and cost you money because of it. But IMHO, anybody willing to get hit that hard on sunday should be able to smoke whatever they want.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;438354]Warren Sapp, Amobi Okoye, and Calvin Johnson all faced similar issues. The concern with Talib seems to be the recurrence and more importantly his blatant disregard.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Weed alone is not an issue, but if a guy is looking for trouble around every corner it's a whole nother story.

Personally it pisses me off when people automatically associate herb with more serious issues. I know a lotta folks who smoke here and their as a way of recreation that I would call high-character blokes. Also know a lot of squares who would never touch the stuff that I wouldn't trust to hold my sandwich for a minute.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=Larry Michael is Satan;438462]Randy Moss anyone? The only reason I'd have reservations about weed smokers is that it's against league policy, and they could miss games and cost you money because of it. [B]But IMHO, anybody willing to get hit that hard on sunday should be able to smoke whatever they want.[/B][/QUOTE]

That's the funniest shit I heard all day (and it's even true IMO).

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;438366]I'm so tired of the Jordy Nelson slurping. Talib got beaten on one play by Nelson, and that one stinkin play is everyone's reference for why we shouldn't draft him.

But repeatedly failing drug tests and not caring about it something to be concerned with. It'll be fun to see Talib's status in Kiper's newest mock draft. He had him jump from #21 to #7 last week. Oops Mel.[/QUOTE]

Every CB gets beat, the problem I had with that play is the fact that Jordy blew his doors off, he went by him so fast and just continued to separate there after. NFL WR's will kill him, or did he as Mayock pointed out just quite on that play? Which brings us back to character issues.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;438370]If you smoke pot on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, in my opinion, you're a bad-character guy and have no place on the team (I'll take the Joe Gibbs school of thought anyday). Only exception would be if you're an absolutely unbelievable talent like a Calvin Johnson.

If you admit to smoking pot, but indicate that it's a one-time thing, I'm still going to red-flag you. I wouldn't rule out drafting you, but I'd insist on doing a lot more homework on you. I'd be talking with your high school coaches, the parents of your high school friends, your college coaches, your parents, everybody.[/QUOTE]

And that my friends, is why Schneed will never be a scout in the NFL.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

someone is getting a free pass here. this is 2 years in a row that news like this was " leaked". these interviews are supposed to be confidential. if you really want these guys to be open and honest, don't disclose their results. and i would think it would be an issue. some can stop smoking, some cant. how do you know which one you have?

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;438530]And that my friends, is why Schneed will never be a scout in the NFL.[/quote]
Why? What he's saying is what any NFL scout would do. Bottom line for a scout is "are you providing a complete picture to the Personnel Director". Any illegal drug use needs to be considered. Players that get popped for drugs aren't on the field and are costing the team $$$. Not only in cap $$$ that could be used elsewhere if they are suspended, but in negative pub. When that happens where does the finger get pointed....to the Personnel Dept.

I don't think if a guy has "isolated incidents" that those are the single factor for not bringing a guy in, but the talent level better be well worth the risk. And if you have a few "isolated incidents" that's a trend.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=dmek25;438533]someone is getting a free pass here. this is 2 years in a row that news like this was " leaked". these interviews are supposed to be confidential. if you really want these guys to be open and honest, don't disclose their results. and i would think it would be an issue. some can stop smoking, some cant. how do you know which one you have?[/quote]

Good point, who the hell is leaking this stuff out?

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=dmek25;438533]someone is getting a free pass here. this is 2 years in a row that news like this was " leaked". these interviews are supposed to be confidential. if you really want these guys to be open and honest, don't disclose their results. and i would think it would be an issue. some can stop smoking, some cant. how do you know which one you have?[/quote]

Information leaks are inevitable in the world of 24/7 media coverage. That goes for sports, that goes for news, and it goes for shows like Access Hollywood.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;438542]Good point, who the hell is leaking this stuff out?[/QUOTE]

My guess is someone is targeting the two and are leaking the bad info. to get their draft stock to drop.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;438530]And that my friends, is why Schneed will never be a scout in the NFL.[/quote]

I think you're having a hard time separating the issues here.

On one hand, some in this thread are tending to slant their arguments towards the idea that weed is no big deal, it won't affect performance, you can still work hard and smoke weed, ETC. Maybe so, maybe not, but that's not the friggin point.

The point is weed is illegal (I don't care whether it should be or not, again, not the point). It will get you suspended from the league if you test positive for it or are caught by the police possessing it. So guys who smoke it have an increased chance of missing games.

I mean isn't that the same thing as drafting a brittle player? Whether they smoke up or tend to get hurt, either way, they're a risk to be unavailable. If they might not be able to get on the field, why would I want them?

I happen to think my approach puts me a lot closer to the mindset of a real NFL scout than yours does. This is not a place to argue whether weed inhibits performance, or reflects upon character, or whether weed should be legal. It's cut and dry: you can get suspended for it. If that rule changes, then I'd change my thinking on it. But as long as that rule's in place, it seems pretty simple to me.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

This current skins FO proved they would take a chance on a player who dropped becasue of marijuana concerns drafting Fred Smoot in the 2nd round of the 2001 draft. He's been clean as a whistle with the skins...

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Schneed10;438554]I think you're having a hard time separating the issues here.

On one hand, some in this thread are tending to slant their arguments towards the idea that weed is no big deal, it won't affect performance, you can still work hard and smoke weed, ETC. Maybe so, maybe not, but that's not the friggin point.

The point is weed is illegal (I don't care whether it should be or not, again, not the point). It will get you suspended from the league if you test positive for it or are caught by the police possessing it. So guys who smoke it have an increased chance of missing games.

I mean isn't that the same thing as drafting a brittle player? Whether they smoke up or tend to get hurt, either way, they're a risk to be unavailable. If they might not be able to get on the field, why would I want them?

I happen to think my approach puts me a lot closer to the mindset of a real NFL scout than yours does. This is not a place to argue whether weed inhibits performance, or reflects upon character, or whether weed should be legal. It's cut and dry: you can get suspended for it. If that rule changes, then I'd change my thinking on it. But as long as that rule's in place, it seems pretty simple to me.[/quote]

Schneed, you are absolutely right. That said, I bet it still won't register.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;438552]My guess is someone is targeting the two and are leaking the bad info. to get their draft stock to drop.[/quote]

Lol, maybe the Redskins did it, but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if thats what happened. At the same time I wonder if the Bengals would take a risk on Maningham, who aside from being a Michigan guy, would be going to a team with enough character issues as is.

Personally I don't think that marijuana use is that big a deal, if it was legal I would prefer players smoking pot instead of drinking alcohol a hundred times over (just for the record I don't smoke pot), but the fact that it's illegal makes using it a bigger risk and in turn a higher probablility that you could lose a player in this day and age of Roger trying to clean up the league.

So with that said I know that smoking pot isn't really that big of a deal, but my question is would a team that has as little room to work with (in terms of character issues) be willing to take on another head case like Maningham.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

This is happening too late in the process to seriously affect their draft stock. If you test positive for pot at the combine, you will get quickly blacklisted and your stock will drop.

But now, most teams have their draft boards set already. Tell me, if Talib was your team's number one rated CB in the entire draft, that is to say, that his football skill graded out higher than every other CB in the draft, wouldn't you still pick him when you were on the clock, even now? Same with Manningham.

Maybe it could be the dealbreaker for some of those teams, and they might pick Jenkins instead, but for the players, it's a lot better for them that it came out in April, than back in February when it could have really jaded their evaluation as players.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;438644]This is happening too late in the process to seriously affect their draft stock. If you test positive for pot at the combine, you will get quickly blacklisted and your stock will drop.

But now, most teams have their draft boards set already. Tell me, if Talib was your team's number one rated CB in the entire draft, that is to say, that his football skill graded out higher than every other CB in the draft, wouldn't you still pick him when you were on the clock, even now? Same with Manningham.[/QUOTE]

You think? I'm not so sure those draft boards are written in stone and I'm not sure why boards are more difficult to change in April than in February or March. It would be one thing if the news broke on the eve of the draft, but teams still have 2 more weeks to evaluate the players and adjust their boards accordingly.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;438651]You think? I'm not so sure those draft boards are written in stone and I'm not sure why boards are more difficult to change in April than in February or March. It would be one thing if the news broke on the eve of the draft, but teams still have 2 more weeks to evaluate the players and adjust their boards accordingly.[/quote]Well, yeah, and 2 weeks from now, if someone else admits to Pot usage, it will matter even less. Relative to the combine though, I think it means very little.

The problem, as I see it, is that if a prospect has known character flaws while he is being graded, any scout-based evaluation system will be biased against him for it, and his grade will be inaccurate. If he grades out top of the board and then admits to pot usage, I think teams will be totally willing to turn a blind eye, to what on the surface seems like a small character flaw.

The assumption here is that a majority of the scouting work is complete, the final prospect grades are in, and those who have had those run ins with the law in college have been blacklisted and dropped down while those who just recently admit to marijuana usage get a tiny, insignificant asterisk.

Re: Talib and Manningham Admit Marijuana Use; Draft Status Affected?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;438644]This is happening too late in the process to seriously affect their draft stock. If you test positive for pot at the combine, you will get quickly blacklisted and your stock will drop.

But now, most teams have their draft boards set already. Tell me, if Talib was your team's number one rated CB in the entire draft, that is to say, that his football skill graded out higher than every other CB in the draft, wouldn't you still pick him when you were on the clock, even now? Same with Manningham.

Maybe it could be the dealbreaker for some of those teams, and they might pick Jenkins instead, but for the players, it's a lot better for them that it came out in April, than back in February when it could have really jaded their evaluation as players.[/QUOTE]


I agree with this. If they tested positve at the combine itself, I think this is a big deal. If they are just admitting to smoking pot somewhere along the way, I really dont think it is a big deal at all. Plenty of people have used it in the past and I dont think its a very big deal that either of these two have used it. I almost respect that they answered the question with a yes, instead of just lying about it. I really dont think it is a big deal at all.