Browns the new Redskins
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=yasinskas_pat&id=3281232]ESPN - Browns focused on winning, not building for future - NFL[/url]

The article is new, but its a topic we have talked about recently in our excitement to having four picks in the first three rounds.

The Browns however, have zero picks in those round. Their coach Crennel is quoted as saying
"Brady Quinn is my first-round pick,'' the coach of the Cleveland Browns said Thursday. "Brady's going to be a good quarterback for the Browns for a long time to come. My second-round pick is Corey Williams. He played four years up in Green Bay, and he played very well. My third-round pick is Shaun Rogers. He's a tremendous talent, and he's very excited about being in Cleveland.''

Sounds familar right? Jason campbell was a first round draft pick trade..etc...

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

Except the Browns don't win...SKINS!

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[QUOTE=Campbell17;430668]Except the Browns don't win...SKINS![/QUOTE]

well...assuming you arent talking about wins and loses from last year.

But heres to us having a better record this year by building through the draft :)

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;430669]well...assuming you arent talking about wins and loses from last year.

But heres to us having a better record this year by building through the draft :)[/quote]
I'm in. :food-smil

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

well, honestly, they've chosen far better talent overall than some of our recent FA classes (arch, lloyd, duckett, etc).

i doubt they would have done better than what they got in the draft, though it is a lot more expensive.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

As far as this year goes, the Jets are a candidate as the "new Redskins" too. They have given out over $140M in total contracts in the past two weeks, over $70M of which is guaranteed, not mention trading 2 2008 draft picks in the process. And the moves are questionable. $22M guaranteed to Calvin Pace? Making a soon to be 32 year old Alan Faneca the richest O-lineman in history? Making a 30 year old Damian Woody the RT for a ton of money (he's only started 5 games ever at RT his entire career)? Giving up 2 draft picks for an overweight, injury prone, malcontent Kris Jenkins, then giving him a $35M ($20M guaranteed) contract? Panicked overspending. I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;430685]As far as this year goes, the Jets are a candidate as the "new Redskins" too. They have given out over $140M in total contracts in the past two weeks, over $70M of which is guaranteed, not mention trading 2 2008 draft picks in the process. And the moves are questionable. $22M guaranteed to Calvin Pace? Making a soon to be 32 year old Alan Faneca the richest O-lineman in history? Making a 30 year old Damian Woody the RT for a ton of money (he's only started 5 games ever at RT his entire career)? Giving up 2 draft picks for an overweight, injury prone, malcontent Kris Jenkins, then giving him a $35M ($20M guaranteed) contract? Panicked overspending. I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here.[/quote]

good point. the browns and dolphins have signed a lot of guys, but they've gotten value and good players.

jets, raiders, etc on the other hand...

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;430685]As far as this year goes, the Jets are a candidate as the "new Redskins" too. They have given out over $140M in total contracts in the past two weeks, over $70M of which is guaranteed, not mention trading 2 2008 draft picks in the process. And the moves are questionable. $22M guaranteed to Calvin Pace? Making a soon to be 32 year old Alan Faneca the richest O-lineman in history? Making a 30 year old Damian Woody the RT for a ton of money (he's only started 5 games ever at RT his entire career)? Giving up 2 draft picks for an overweight, injury prone, malcontent Kris Jenkins, then giving him a $35M ($20M guaranteed) contract? Panicked overspending. I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here.[/quote]

Looks like Don Banks agrees with you.

[B]Thumbs down[/B]

• [B]New York Jets[/B] -- The Jets seem to be getting credit for trying in free agency, but that's not necessarily always the right approach. Just ask a Redskins or 49ers fan. I sense a certain lack of rhyme or reason in New York's additions, as if the Jets aren't really sure who they are as a football team. Are they still right on the heels of the Patriots in the AFC East, as they appeared in 2006, or miles behind them, as was the case in 2007? How big a gap are they trying to close?

Many believe [B]Kris Jenkins[/B] is an upgrade at nose tackle, but it's a different role for him compared to playing defensive tackle in a 4-3. I've got questions about how he'll adapt and how long he'll stay healthy. And while [B]Alan Faneca[/B] and [B]Damien Woody[/B] look like a huge improvement on paper, Woody shifting to right tackle this late in his career is a puzzler. Faneca, it must be noted, was part of a Steelers O-line that was the weakest link on the team. For that matter, the same was true of Woody in Detroit. For all the extra money he'll cost, will Faneca be a head-and-shoulder improvement at guard over the exiled [B]Pete Kendall[/B]?

The [B]Calvin Pace[/B] signing makes sense to me, because New York had no pass rush last season, and he could really help on that front. But I still think the Jets wasted Vilma's talents and wound up giving him away to New Orleans. Getting fullback [B]Tony Richardson[/B] should also aid the chances of lead rusher [B]Thomas Jones[/B] having a bounce-back second season in New York. Jones was a disappointment last season, but it likely had more to do with the Jets underachieving offensive line.
And then there's the karma factor. The Jets' spending spree in free agency seems to have ticked off some of their best players, top receiver
[B]Laveranues Coles[/B] among them. That could wind up being a bit
counterproductive. Lost in the shuffle so far is another key point: Who's definitively the Jets' guy at quarterback: [B]Kellen Clemens[/B] or [B]Chad Pennington[/B]?

Until that's resolved, it's hard to know exactly which direction New York is headed.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

Of course in retrospect, these moves (or lack there of) in Free Agency will only mean so much once the season starts because

[YT]IMk5sMHj58I[/YT]

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

Until someone actually employs this strategy succesfully I am going to remain dubious. Last year when the punditry was picking SF as a contender in the NFC, I had seen that movie too many times as a Redskins fan to take them seriously. The last team I can remember succesfully buying a championship was the 94 49ers, who were a historically great team that just needed to get past the historically greater Cowboys. Hasn't worked since then to my knowledge.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=djnemo65;430709]Until someone actually employs this strategy succesfully I am going to remain dubious. Last year when the punditry was picking SF as a contender in the NFC, I had seen that movie too many times as a Redskins fan to take them seriously. The last team I can remember succesfully buying a championship was the 94 49ers, who were a historically great team that just needed to get past the historically greater Cowboys. Hasn't worked since then to my knowledge.[/quote]

that 49er team added a no. of players, but I can't remember, did they pay big $ for them? That was also in the very early years of unrestricted free agency & the good teams like the 49ers still had their core intact.

I agree though, I can't think of any team that's paid that kind of money for free agents in one year & been successful. The difference between what the Jets are doing & what the pats did last year is the high salaires iMO. Yes, the Pats got Moss, Stallworth et al, but they didn't spend huge sums on them. Just as Banks points out, the salaries also impact team chemistry, as we know as skins fans.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

Yeah, for me it's the 49ers..

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;430728]Yeah, for me it's the 49ers..[/quote]

last year and this year the 49ers have definitly spent a ton of money in free agency, but I wouldnt classify them as being 'the new redskins' becuase they still had their draft picks, and imo did an amazing job with most of their picks. They have some real studs in there for the last few years.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;430743]last year and this year the 49ers have definitly spent a ton of money in free agency, but I wouldnt classify them as being 'the new redskins' becuase they still had their draft picks, and imo did an amazing job with most of their picks. They have some real studs in there for the last few years.[/quote]

Yeah I wish we had Patrick Willis. Dude is an animal. Gore was one of the more underrated draft picks of the past few years too. A steal for a 3rd rounder.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;430743]last year and this year the 49ers have definitly spent a ton of money in free agency, but I wouldnt classify them as being 'the new redskins' becuase they still had their draft picks, and imo did an amazing job with most of their picks. They have some real studs in there for the last few years.[/quote]

I'm talking more about the overspending for free agents and not producing on the field. If they go another year with a bad record, they're going to get quite a reputation...

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=Campbell17;430668]Except the Browns don't win...SKINS![/quote]

I hate to break the news to you but Clev had a better record than we did and I would say right now they are a better team than we are.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=freddyg12;430726]that 49er team added a no. of players, but I can't remember, did they pay big $ for them? That was also in the very early years of unrestricted free agency & the good teams like the 49ers still had their core intact.

I agree though, I can't think of any team that's paid that kind of money for free agents in one year & been successful. The difference between what the Jets are doing & what the pats did last year is the high salaires iMO. Yes, the Pats got Moss, Stallworth et al, but they didn't spend huge sums on them. Just as Banks points out, the salaries also impact team chemistry, as we know as skins fans.[/quote]

pats got:
ad thomas (BIG money)
randy moss (SUPER cheap - 3mill)
donte stallworth (fairly cheap)
wes welker (somewhat cheap)
kyle brady (not that cheap for a TE that didn't play much)
D edwards (cheap)
j gaffney (cheap)
other less important players (super cheap to ultra cheap)

still, that's a TON of FA adds, even if they got good values, that's the whole point - maximize production/talent per dollar, and there's no arguing they did that. now, they didn't win the superbowl, but they had plenty of chances - no arguing they bought 16-0 though.

the eagles had it work for a year after TO and kearse came in that FA class, the long term benefits may actually be negative, but it almost got them a super bowl.


I think it works for the browns and dolphins, but that just means the browns make the playoffs (10-6 +/- 2) and the dolphins win 5 games (+/-2). the browns went with big money big talent, and the dolphins went the economy route (which is smarter for them, since big money would just be wasted there with the lackluster talent and lack of youth).

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;430675]well, honestly, they've chosen far better talent overall than some of our recent FA classes (arch, lloyd, duckett, etc).

i doubt they would have done better than what they got in the draft, though it is a lot more expensive.[/QUOTE]

yeah to play opposite of Edwards,Stallworth and Winslow after the year they had..thats pretty scary especially their division with an older ravens squad, a crappy bengals secondary and a Steelers (when Polamalu is out) questionable defense..I like where they're going so far.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

The Browns fell a game short of the playoffs and have picked up some great talent. Their OL is pretty damn good, DL with those pick-ups (try running up the middle, you'll get stuffed) WR are great, TE, etc. overall they are a pretty solid team and I would pick them to challenge for the AFC crown next year. Phil Savage is a pretty smart GM and has done an excellent job, that's why he's getting an extension.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;431163]The Browns fell a game short of the playoffs and have picked up some great talent. Their OL is pretty damn good, DL with those pick-ups (try running up the middle, you'll get stuffed) WR are great, TE, etc. overall they are a pretty solid team and I would pick them to challenge for the AFC crown next year. Phil Savage is a pretty smart GM and has done an excellent job, that's why he's getting an extension.[/QUOTE]

Glad you see things my way

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;430831]pats got:
ad thomas (BIG money)
randy moss (SUPER cheap - 3mill)
donte stallworth (fairly cheap)
wes welker (somewhat cheap)
kyle brady (not that cheap for a TE that didn't play much)
D edwards (cheap)
j gaffney (cheap)
other less important players (super cheap to ultra cheap)

still, that's a TON of FA adds, even if they got good values, that's the whole point - maximize production/talent per dollar, and there's no arguing they did that. now, they didn't win the superbowl, but they had plenty of chances - no arguing they bought 16-0 though.

the eagles had it work for a year after TO and kearse came in that FA class, the long term benefits may actually be negative, but it almost got them a super bowl.


I think it works for the browns and dolphins, but that just means the browns make the playoffs (10-6 +/- 2) and the dolphins win 5 games (+/-2). the browns went with big money big talent, and the dolphins went the economy route (which is smarter for them, since big money would just be wasted there with the lackluster talent and lack of youth).[/quote]


man I wasnt even thinking about the patriots, they definitly added a ton of key pieces through free agency, great post! They built through the draft and got key free agent signings...You have the luxury of singing 35 year olds for a year or two when thats the only piece you need ina puzzzle ya know

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

Brown's made some nice moves but please never compare any team to the All mighty REDSKINS!

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;430831]pats got:
ad thomas (BIG money)
randy moss (SUPER cheap - 3mill)
donte stallworth (fairly cheap)
wes welker (somewhat cheap)
kyle brady (not that cheap for a TE that didn't play much)
D edwards (cheap)
j gaffney (cheap)
other less important players (super cheap to ultra cheap)

still, that's a TON of FA adds, even if they got good values, that's the whole point - maximize production/talent per dollar, and there's no arguing they did that. now, they didn't win the superbowl, but they had plenty of chances - no arguing they bought 16-0 though.

the eagles had it work for a year after TO and kearse came in that FA class, the long term benefits may actually be negative, but it almost got them a super bowl.


I think it works for the browns and dolphins, but that just means the browns make the playoffs (10-6 +/- 2) and the dolphins win 5 games (+/-2). the browns went with big money big talent, and the dolphins went the economy route (which is smarter for them, since big money would just be wasted there with the lackluster talent and lack of youth).[/quote]

I think you could argue that had the pats paid all those guys big $, or at least substantial deals, like the Skins of 2000 or the jets of today, that it would'n't have worked. Plus, the Pats were already a really good team, they just needed a few pieces to put them over the top.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;431221]I think you could argue that had the pats paid all those guys big $, or at least substantial deals, like the Skins of 2000 or the jets of today, that it would'n't have worked. Plus, the Pats were already a really good team, they just needed a few pieces to put them over the top.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by it wouldnt work if they paid the players big deals?

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=freddyg12;431221]I think you could argue that had the pats paid all those guys big $, or at least substantial deals, like the Skins of 2000 or the jets of today, that it would'n't have worked. Plus, the Pats were already a really good team, they just needed a few pieces to put them over the top.[/quote]


if you've got cap space and talent available to sign at fair market, why not use it? i mean, randy moss was only 3 times cheaper than he should have been.

the only trick is picking the right people to give money to. you can't hit 50% and win with the FA approach. which is why, although some of our signings were good, enough were bad (enough) to destroy any possible success with that way of doing business. if you can't hit 90%-100% of big money deals, it's probably going to cost you wins (due to less available cap for worthwhile players, wasted roster spots, possible locker room issues, etc).

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;431159]yeah to play opposite of Edwards,Stallworth and Winslow after the year they had..thats pretty scary especially their division with an older ravens squad, a crappy bengals secondary and a Steelers (when Polamalu is out) questionable defense..I like where they're going so far.[/quote]

Don't forget about Jamal Lewis.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

I agree that the Browns will be a force next season. Its so funny how they have been bad for so long and even with a 10-6 record, they did not appear in the playoffs and over 85% of people (IMO, not scientific by any means) will laugh when you say the Browns are a good team or even that they had a good season last year. The Browns will seemingly come from nowhere next year. I do not know what qualifies as a "comeback team" but I would not consider the Browns one based on last season, however, based on their current image, a playoff berth would merit the "comeback team" status. ramble ramble ramble........

ANYWAYS, to say the Browns are the new Redskins is a complement IMO, but I think they are not the next anyone else... they are the next Browns, simple as that.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

The 49ers and the Jets can build all they want, but they will never succeed (sp?) without a good QB. People tend to overlook that when they were calling the Niners a contender last year. Cleveland has a good QB and they've made some good moves in free agency. The patriots have an elite QB and their many moves in free agency worked because of that. Unless Alex Smith and whoever the Jets QB is play well, their FA additions won't pay out.

Re: Browns the new Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;431272]The 49ers and the Jets can build all they want, but they will never succeed (sp?) without a good QB. People tend to overlook that when they were calling the Niners a contender last year. Cleveland has a good QB and they've made some good moves in free agency. The patriots have an elite QB and their many moves in free agency worked because of that. Unless Alex Smith and whoever the Jets QB is play well, their FA additions won't pay out.[/quote]

which is a very good point.