Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Just curious why people are so strongly against bringing in Fassel, yet are pro Mariucci. Just wondering what the big difference is? Is it just because Mooch is on TV and is a likable guy?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I am against Fassel because he is a career loser. His only success has been limping into the most pathetic superbowl in superbowl history(against a Ravens team that did not score an offensive touchdown for 7 straight weeks).
The guy simply can't get it done, and couldn't even last a full season as an OC in Baltimore. Awful. I give the guy zero tolerance for mistakes. Snyder is an idiot, and this would only re-enforce that. I have no love for Mooch either.

What I would like to see is a real football guy running things. Cerrato is Snyder's whipping boy and that is it. The Dolphins wanted to get better so they went out and hired the best guy they could find to run there operation. Snyder is the polar opposite. Now that Gibbs is gone, there is no restraining him. I will give an unknown guy a chance, but I give Fassel none.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

It's because Mooch plays BacciBall (jk).

There really isn't much. If you stand back and look at both they each have pros and cons. The difference lies in when they turned up as potential replacements for Gibbs. At first, we all assumed it would be GW. Then Fassell entered the picture and he was seen as the bad guy who was keeping GW from becoming coach. Now, Mooch is the anti-Fassel.
Seems dumb, I know, but it goes to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Personally, I think Fassel is tainted by Baltimore and I'd rather not have another former NFC East foe coaching the Skins (Norv?).

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Because Fassel sucks!

Mooch is better because he's better than Fassel!

Fassel sucks because he was fired by the Ravens.

Mooch sucks because he was fired by the Lions.

Hell, whoever we get it doesn't matter because we're still going to suck!

But then again, if we get Mooch, will that make us the Detroit Lions East?

Snyder should sell the team!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Seriously, I'm not sure if theres a big difference between the two. Both have winning records, both have playoff experience, and both are "players" coaches. They both run the West Coast Offense. The only huge difference is that Fassel made it to the Super Bowl. Other than that, they're both very similar, IMO.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Redskins_P;414320]Because Fassel sucks!

Mooch is better because he's better than Fassel!

Fassel sucks because he was fired by the Ravens.

Mooch sucks because he was fired by the Lions.

Hell, whoever we get it doesn't matter because we're still going to suck!

But then again, if we get Mooch, will that make us the Detroit Lions East?

Snyder should sell the team![/quote]


I have no problem between the two
belicheat was fired by the browns too........

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I think for me...I don't like him, because he represents, what I feel, the opposite of what Williams would have brought to the table.....plus I still see him as a Giant...it would be like Parcells coming here

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I don't understand all the hate either. How can you not love this guy?

Just look at that punim...

[IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6887/fasseljim1217xs9.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=munny;414316]I am against Fassel because he is a career loser. His only success has been limping into the most pathetic superbowl in superbowl history(against a Ravens team that did not score an offensive touchdown for 7 straight weeks).
The guy simply can't get it done, and couldn't even last a full season as an OC in Baltimore. Awful. I give the guy zero tolerance for mistakes. Snyder is an idiot, and this would only re-enforce that. I have no love for Mooch either.

What I would like to see is a real football guy running things. Cerrato is Snyder's whipping boy and that is it. The Dolphins wanted to get better so they went out and hired the best guy they could find to run there operation. Snyder is the polar opposite. Now that Gibbs is gone, there is no restraining him. I will give an unknown guy a chance, but I give Fassel none.[/quote]

He actually has a winning record for this career. I know... those pesky facts again!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I'm pro Mooch having been through his years here in SF. He's an excellent coach who came in when the 49ers were getting old, ownership problems (Eddie D. got caught on gambling scandal) salary cap caught up to the team, Young's concussions forced him to retire, TO and Jerry Rice whining, pretty much the shit hit the fan all at once and he was made the scapegoat cause he was loyal to Eddie D. and not his sister and husband (the new owners) The players love him, he's smart and a winner. Out of all the candidates out there he would be my #1 choice. His team came from behind to beat Fassel's team in the playoffs.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

He's 59 years old. If he were a great coach we would have found out already. He is the definition of a retread. Also in his press conferences he always tended to blame everyone but himself when things went wrong. That's not what a leader does...

I would rather give the job to a young unproven guy(Schwartz) then a retread. And if we have to go the retread route i would rather have Mooch or just about anyone you can think of over Fassel.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Redskins_P;414323]Seriously, I'm not sure if theres a big difference between the two. Both have winning records, both have playoff experience, and both are "players" coaches. They both run the West Coast Offense. The only huge difference is that Fassel made it to the Super Bowl. Other than that, they're both very similar, IMO.[/quote]

I'm confused myself. On paper both guys are pretty similar, yet as of right now Mariucci has a 70% approval in our poll.

What is the big difference maker between the two?

It's gotta be because Mooch is on TV.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;414341]I'm confused myself. On paper both guys are pretty similar, yet as of right now Mariucci has a 70% approval in our poll.

What is the big difference maker between the two?

It's gotta be because Mooch is on TV.[/QUOTE]

Mooch's record in Detroit shouldn't count, remember it is Detroit.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;414341]I'm confused myself. On paper both guys are pretty similar, yet as of right now Mariucci has a 70% approval in our poll.

What is the big difference maker between the two?

It's gotta be because Mooch is on TV.[/quote]


Mooch has better hair. Its almost Jimmy Johnson-esque.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=rypper11;414318]It's because Mooch plays BacciBall (jk).

There really isn't much. If you stand back and look at both they each have pros and cons. The difference lies in when they turned up as potential replacements for Gibbs. At first, we all assumed it would be GW. Then Fassell entered the picture and he was seen as the bad guy who was keeping GW from becoming coach. Now, Mooch is the anti-Fassel.
Seems dumb, I know, but it goes to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Personally, I think Fassel is tainted by Baltimore and I'd rather not have another former NFC East foe coaching the Skins (Norv?).[/QUOTE]

Are you a psychologist? That makes perfect sense to me. But I never liked Fassel period. I think it's his face, anybody remember the bitter beer face commercials? Thats what i think of when i think of fassel, oh yeah and losing too. Way to get fired by the ravens fassel...the ravens?!?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

If you had to start with a totally "clean slate", probably not much difference between G Williams, J Fassel or Mooch (Although I would have Mooch as #3).

However, we were not starting with a clean slate. Gibbs brough a certain sense of pride and family to the team. He created the "core Redskins" montra and brought a sense of stability and purpose.

G Williams doesn't have the ideal HC resume (neither do any of the other candidates). But, he was brought here with an implied consideration for being the successor HC, has the support of the players, other coaches and fans. He is the "logical" choice.

Perhaps he made too many demands and let his ego get in the way, but I don't want to speculate too much.

Now, regardless of who becomes our next HC, we can expect alot of on-field changes as well as personnel changes. Back to rebuilding mode just as we were getting ready to reap the benefits of our last rebuild.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I do like Mariucci. I believe you can almost throw out Detroit's win/loss % when you talk about Mariucci b/c no one has won there. I believe they were rebuilding too. He had a good run and i remember liking the way his team responded to him in SF.

Fassel on the other hand reminds me of the HATED Giants. Although probably better than the skins throughout his coaching tenure there, I remember thinking how crappy his NY teams were for the most part and his choices at QB were always questionable. He just reminds me of all of the mediocre Giants teams. Really nothing against him personally. I just keep thinking...The best we can do is Jim Fassel?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Another thing to note in this dilemma is that, Mariucci had VC as his GM and Fassel had a future HOF GM in George Young and Ernie Accorsi.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

i think probably the biggest factor contributing to the bias against fassel is what happened last year in baltimore.

the ravens offense was dismal with him making calls. billick fired him, and immediately, the offense improved. the turn around was so noticeable and so instantaneous, one could not help but attribute the improvement directly to fassel (the LACK of fassel, that is).

true fassel is not being considered to be a coordinator here. but after having so recently demonstrated a glaring ineptitude in an assistant role, i think people's hesitance in embracing him as gibb's successor is, at least somewhat, justified.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

oops, double post

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;414341]I'm confused myself. On paper both guys are pretty similar, yet as of right now Mariucci has a 70% approval in our poll.

What is the big difference maker between the two?

It's gotta be because Mooch is on TV.[/quote]

mora would also have a higher approval than fassel and mora's not on tv. The other two are likeable guys. Fassel is a fit pitching sourpus who's career is mediocre. At least the other two are likeable mediocre.....

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I don't want fassel because:
He coached in the NFC East! No more NFC East coaches, I don't even want their assistants.

He built a solid team but he lost control of it and it tanked the year he got fired. except for the one SB year, his teams were known for blowing leads and losing to crappy teams. He lost in the first round of the playoffs 2 out of 3 times.

He couldn't handle the offensive coordinate job in Baltimore. Billick is one of his best friends and he still was fired midseason! After the firing, The ravens offense improved significantly. He proved to me that he cannot lead an offence, He was stuck in his old ways and Brian Billick had enough and fired him. Sounds too much like Mike Nolan if you ask me.


I'm not a big mariucci fan either. I think he inherited a good team in SF. Mariucci comes from a successful coaching tree. He's had consistent success and is a good motivator.
He was fired after a playoff season because of a power struggle with the Front office.
In detroit, Well it's detroit!

Most importantly, We have to have a smoot and mooch on the same team.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;414379]mora would also have a higher approval than fassel and mora's not on tv. The other two are likeable guys. Fassel is a fit pitching sourpus who's career is mediocre. At least the other two are likeable mediocre.....[/QUOTE]

Mora was Mooch's DC in SF.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=J. Spanky;414373]i think probably the biggest factor contributing to the bias against fassel is what happened last year in baltimore.

the ravens offense was dismal with him making calls. billick fired him, and immediately, the offense improved. the turn around was so noticeable and so instantaneous, one could not help but attribute the improvement directly to fassel.

true fassel is not being considered to be a coordinator here. but after having so recently demonstrated a glaring ineptitude in an assistant role, i think people's hesitance in embracing him as gibb's successor is, at least somewhat, justified.[/QUOTE]This is my main gripe with fassel. I'm already embarassed by the way Snyder has handled this whole thing and Fassel would just be icing on the cake, especially because of where I live.

In a much more unimportant/[I]Blink[/I]-like way, Fassel just doesn't strike me as a great leader. I know this is kind of dumb because it's not based on anything but a visual perception but Fassel carries himself like a big loser IMO. There's just something about him that annoys me but i can't really put my finger on that. He reminds me of an over zealous middle school math teacher who likes to give his students packets of homework on Friday's and who constantly has pit stains.
I think the fact that other people are posting this guy's goofy mug proves that I'm not the only one who felt this gut reaction the moment I heard his name last week.
Maybe it's not even really him though; maybe it's more of the fact that he's NOT Gregg Williams, who I wanted to be named HC right away. It could be that I'm just bitter right now about how the season ended and this is my way of venting.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;414371]Another thing to note in this dilemma is that, Mariucci had VC as his GM and Fassel had a future HOF GM in George Young and Ernie Accorsi.[/quote]


dont forget mat millen!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;414394]dont forget mat millen![/QUOTE]

I remembered after I typed and was too lazy to edit.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Jim Fassel never had two straight winning seasons on the Giants and his teams were very inconsistent. When Mariucci was on San Fran, his teams were much more consistent. They only did bad when Steve Young's career ended, and then they got good again with Garcia. Fassel and Mariucci are both offensive coaches, but Mariucci's offenses were always better, which is what the Redskins need.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FassJi0.htm]Jim Fassel Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]
[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/MariSt0.htm]Steve Mariucci Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Here is why I'm frustrated with all this outcry against Fassel:

Do people act like he is a total "mentally challenged" human being (being PC here ;)) SERIOUSLY, what is he going to do that is SO much more horrible than ANY OTHER COACH IN THIS LEAGUE WOULD HAVE DONE?

GW might have gotten the shaft yes, but what about the fact he was Gibb's right hand man for a few years makes him any less accountable than another coach?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=steveo395;414398][B][I]Jim Fassel never had two straight winning seasons on the Giants and his teams were very inconsistent.[/I][/B] When Mariucci was on San Fran, his teams were much more consistent. They only did bad when Steve Young's career ended, and then they got good again with Garcia. Fassel and Mariucci are both offensive coaches, but Mariucci's offenses were always better, which is what the Redskins need.

[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FassJi0.htm"]Jim Fassel Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/MariSt0.htm"]Steve Mariucci Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL][/quote]

Did Gibbs 2.0?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

One thing that makes me incredibly wary with coaches, especially since I believe they don't really change the win/loss outcome of games, is when they get fired from a team in which they've been doing a lot of winning.

Why did the 49ers fire Mooch? Why did the Giants fire Fassel? They both had winning records.

That's probably something Danny addresses in the interview process.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I'm old school and I don't want Fassel cause he coached the NYG. No thanks. I'll take Mooch.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I have no idea, why I feel that Fossil was a bad coach, I just do. It has nothing to do with him coaching the Giants. For some reason, I like Mooch. I always did. Fossil, in reality was far more successfull than Mooch.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

BTW Sportstalk 980 just confirmed that Mooch is indeed a candidate.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=celts32;414418]BTW Sportstalk 980 just confirmed that Mooch is indeed a candidate.[/quote]

Good news.

To me at least.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=celts32;414418]BTW Sportstalk 980 just confirmed that Mooch is indeed a candidate.[/QUOTE]

Nice! I'm all for that. May the best man win.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Just to play Devils advocate, why is it that none of the other teams that needed a coach or a cordinator interviewed them?

Mabye they did and I didnt hear about it. But from what ive read we are the only ones that want either guy. Does the rest of the league know somethign we dont?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;414403]Did Gibbs 2.0?[/quote]

That's a whole other thread.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

So, reading through the posts, the answer, Matty, is style over substance. "I just don't like the guy," "he reminds me of my high school teacher," "he reminds me of the Giants (uh, Spagnolo coached for the Giants and Eagles and I don't imagine we'd have the uproar), "he coached the Ravens and the Raven's weren't good on offense" (see note 1). I have not been a big fan of Fassel, but the love for Mooch vis a vis the Fassel hate is simply irrational and based simply upon perception. The real issue, I suspect, is a question of timing or a general lack of information on Mooch. If it goes down as JLC has speculated (and who knows at this point) and the fans generally embrace Mooch then it is only because Snyder is a smarter marketer than we are fans.

Note 1 - Fassel's career as an OC

1993 - Denver - #5 in NFL in total offense
1994 - Denver - #6 in NFL in total offense
1996 - Arizona - #13 in NFL in total offense
2004 - Baltimore - #31 in NFL (275 ypg) (one behind Gibbs led Redskins) who was QB?
2005 - Baltimore - #24 in NFL (293 ypg), who was the QB?
2006 - Baltimore fires Fassel (b/c Billick's job is on the line), gets a half-way decent QB in McNair ... offense skyrockets to ... wait for it ... #17 in NFL (317 ypg)
2007 - Baltimore - McNair hurt (and, admittedly, problems on o-line) Fassel-less offense #22 in NFL (303 ypg)

So if we are going to throw out Mooch's career in Detroit (15-28) then why not throw out Fassel's time in Baltimore? After all, when was the last time Baltimore had a good offense (a comparable statement to when was the last time Detroit won)? To hold the one against Fassel while absolving Mariucchi of the other seems hypocritical.

For the record, I would still prefer Schwartz (apparently not going to happen) or Meeks. And I do know that coaches with prior experience tend to be more successful, so perhaps my own desires are irrational as well.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=redsk1;414428]That's a whole other thread.[/quote]

Not necessarily, especially when you're talking straight up wins and losses.

While Joe Gibbs put in place a STRONG leadership among the players on this team, his win and loss record wasn't exactly stellar.

Would I prefer Gibbs over ANY other coach if we had the option? Absolutely.

But I think it's absolute insanity the way some people are acting to hiring Fassel or anyone else... If you're going to dismiss wins and losses, then at least talk about intangibles, and what makes Fassel or anyone else less valuable with their intangibles.

Most of the candidates are player's coaches, work well with young quarterbacks and HAVE fielded winning teams with little to no mutiny on their own sidelines. Remember Fassel had to work with SHOCKEY. Let's all calm down and let's remember to give whoever it is a fighting chance.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=celts32;414418]BTW Sportstalk 980 just confirmed that Mooch is indeed a candidate.[/quote]

Out of curiousity is 980 a trustworthy source? Over the past few years it feels like people have posted tons of rumors from 980 that seem to be false more times then not.

At the same time I hope that this one is true. Mooch would be perfect for this team.