How to finish a game..
 

I hope the coaching staff was watching the late 3rd quarter & 4th quarter of the MNF game.. The Pats kept attacking, offensively and defensively.. I'm not putting the Skins on par with the Pats, but against a strong scoring offense like the Bengals there was no fear in bringing the pressure defensively and up 14+ pts in the 4th quarter they CAME OUT THROWING instead of bleeding the clock.. Let's take this as a lesson on how to close out games starting vs. Detroit!

Re: How to finish a game..
 

Uh, we can't do that for a multitude of reasons. Campbell's short range accuracy sucks.

In fact, thats exactly what we DID against New York that you are complaining about. We threw, but not successfully.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

Why does Campbell throw so many short yardage passes high and behind his receivers? If his execution was better in this area we probably would be 3-0 right now.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=MTRedskinsFan;358680]Why does Campbell throw so many short yardage passes high and behind his receivers? If his execution was better in this area we probably would be 3-0 right now.[/QUOTE]

Definitely a good point, but he's basically a rookie...meanwhile the coaching staff is the best money can buy.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

No, I'm saying I'm really confused hear. In most deep passes Campbell is very accurate. When he overthrows Moss you get the feeling its because Santana is so fast Campbell worries he won't quite lead him far enough. And on medium passes, when he really has to thread hard passes he has shown deadly accuracy IMO, but then in the shorter stuff his passes drift and there almost always high. What gives? Don't you think coaches would have specific techniques to address this?

Re: How to finish a game..
 

When I played baseball in high school, we had this centerfielder with a cannon for an arm. And incredibly accurate. One day, as we had maxed out all our pitchers I made the brilliant suggest of "Hey coach, why not Dave? He's got a great arm. He can just fire some heat in there"

So, Dave went up to pitch and just like I thought he was firing the ball. Except his aim was all over the place. Basically, he had no idea how to hit his target unless he was really far away. It was weird and has nothing to do with this thread really, but anyway...

I imagine it's an adjustment (a slower than expected adjustment, I think) for Campbell and the receivers. Particulary the wide receivers. One minute you're catching touch passes from a 6-foot left-hander, the next you're catching rockets from 5 yards away from a 6'5" right-hander. That's quite a difference

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;358689]When I played baseball in high school, we had this centerfielder with a cannon for an arm. And incredibly accurate. One day, as we had maxed out all our pitchers I made the brilliant suggest of "Hey coach, why not Dave? He's got a great arm. He can just fire some heat in there"

So, Dave went up to pitch and just like I thought he was firing the ball. Except his aim was all over the place. Basically, he had no idea how to hit his target unless he was really far away. It was weird and has nothing to do with this thread really, but anyway...

I imagine it's an adjustment (a slower than expected adjustment, I think) for Campbell and the receivers. Particulary the wide receivers. One minute you're catching touch passes from a 6-foot left-hander, the next you're catching rockets from 5 yards away from a 6'5" right-hander. That's quite a difference[/QUOTE]

Good pts, all of them. If JC can get the short yardage worked out he will be lethal.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

I also think his windup makes his throws more prone to sail on people. It seems to be a great method for the deep ball, but not so great on shorter routes.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

We took two bloody shoot down field in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Gibbs and Co ran on 1st down, ran on 2nd down and threw on 3rd down. Very predictable play calling and conservative to the teeth.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=saden1;358718]We took two bloody shoot down field in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Gibbs and Co ran on 1st down, ran on 2nd down and threw on 3rd down. Very predictable play calling and conservative to the teeth.[/QUOTE]

Okay, but if the offensive line blocked effectively, Portis didn't fumble the ball, or was able to find a crease, then those two running plays on first and second down work and nobody's complaining. So as it's been said over and over -- it's not the playcalling, it's the execution.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

Well against the Lions no lead will be safe, so it will be interesting to see how we gameplan in the second half.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;358675]Uh, we can't do that for a multitude of reasons. Campbell's short range accuracy sucks.

In fact, thats exactly what we DID against New York that you are complaining about. We threw, but not successfully.[/QUOTE]

We might have thrown but we did not ATTACK in my opinion.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;358742]We might have thrown but we did not ATTACK in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!! We didn't try anything remotely down the field until the game was tied back up or we were down.. Our pass attempts were horizontal to the RB or 4 yd outs to the sidelines.. That's why stats lie.. I watched the shortcut (entire game cut down to 30 mins) last night again and was disgusted by the play calling on both sides of the ball.. Far too conservative!
Then to watch the Pats carve up the Bengals with the passing game and continue to be aggressive defensively by bringing pressure I was jealous from a playcalling standpoint.. I wasn't trying to compare talent, just philosophy.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

hopefully we can put some points up early an often so GW can put some blitzes together and pressure kitna in the 2nd half. Hopefully he wont be some conservative in the playcalling allowing them to eat up yards and clock. if we fall behind in the 2nd half I have doubts about us closing out another close game.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;358675]Uh, we can't do that for a multitude of reasons. Campbell's short range accuracy sucks.

In fact, thats exactly what we DID against New York that you are complaining about. We threw, but not successfully.[/quote]

I don't remember attacking alot when we were up 14 pts. I remember running, running, and then on 3rd down and long passing. Of course later in the game when we were down 7, we started passing. Alot of difference.

Look there's got to be a good mixing of playcalls. Tom Brady is a 1st ballot HOF qb and one of the best i've ever seen. As a team we've got to mix it up. We're too predictable when we have a lead. Run, Run, Pass....Run, Run, Run...etc.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

24-17???????
We went down lookin', nothing worse than that!
Always better to swing away!

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;358742]We might have thrown but we did not ATTACK in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I would respectfully disagree and point out that, last week at least, the game plan for both the Redskins and the Patriots with the lead was very similar. The key difference between execution, or lack thereof.

However, last time I attempted to do that I was lambasted for daring to compare the two teams.

So I won't

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;358716]I also think his windup makes his throws more prone to sail on people. It seems to be a great method for the deep ball, but not so great on shorter routes.[/QUOTE]

Would it not be easier for a QB to hone his short passing game vs. his long range stuff? Logic seems to point in that direction. If JC can get both his short passes and his long rang game going, he'll be a freakin' monster.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

If our receivers can get open we'll be ok, but we still need to run the ball effectively to set up the pass. They will load up the box to stop the run, we just have to be more physical than them and pound it. Take an occasional shot down the field to keep them honest. I don't think we need to get crazy with the passing game. First of all we'll probably get JC clobbered, and second of all we are still a run first team...with or without Portis.

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[quote=Paintrain;358672]I hope the coaching staff was watching the late 3rd quarter & 4th quarter of the MNF game.. The Pats kept attacking, offensively and defensively.. I'm not putting the Skins on par with the Pats, but against a strong scoring offense like the Bengals there was no fear in bringing the pressure defensively and up 14+ pts in the 4th quarter they CAME OUT THROWING instead of bleeding the clock.. Let's take this as a lesson on how to close out games starting vs. Detroit![/quote]

Our offensive coaching staff ( Joe Gibbs) doesn't coach aggressive football the way the Pats do. Plus they have Tom Brady and he makes it all go. They could not run that type of offense w/ out him. The guy is completing almost 80% of his passes. That is just ridicules.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=MTRedskinsFan;358680]Why does Campbell throw so many short yardage passes high and behind his receivers? If his execution was better in this area we probably would be 3-0 right now.[/quote]

I'm not sure we'd we 3-0 but he def needs to work on it. He's a great deep thrower but this is something he really needs to work on in the off season. He has also had a bunch of drops.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=skinsfan69;358773]Our offensive coaching staff ( Joe Gibbs) doesn't coach aggressive football the way the Pats do. Plus they have Tom Brady and he makes it all go. They could not run that type of offense w/ out him. The guy is completing almost 80% of his passes. That is just ridicules.[/quote]

He also has only been sacked like 3 times this year and only hit a few more than that. They do a great job of protecting him, which helps him to be a better QB.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;358672]I hope the coaching staff was watching the late 3rd quarter & 4th quarter of the MNF game.. The Pats kept attacking, offensively and defensively.. I'm not putting the Skins on par with the Pats, but against a strong scoring offense like the Bengals there was no fear in bringing the pressure defensively and up 14+ pts in the 4th quarter they CAME OUT THROWING instead of bleeding the clock.. Let's take this as a lesson on how to close out games starting vs. Detroit![/QUOTE]

Great post I agree!

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=Paintrain;358744]EXACTLY!! We didn't try anything remotely down the field until the game was tied back up or we were down.. Our pass attempts were horizontal to the RB or 4 yd outs to the sidelines.. That's why stats lie.. I watched the shortcut (entire game cut down to 30 mins) last night again and was disgusted by the play calling on both sides of the ball.. Far too conservative!
Then to watch the Pats carve up the Bengals with the passing game and continue to be aggressive defensively by bringing pressure I was jealous from a playcalling standpoint.. I wasn't trying to compare talent, just philosophy.[/quote]
We had wide open WR's that were wide open it was a case of JC not finding them. The Bengals also only had 2 LB playing in the game and had to use 5 lineman and that all the Pats needed in the second half. I also don't get the talk about our O Line because they have only gave up 5 sacks this year.

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[quote=jsarno;358682]Definitely a good point, but he's basically a rookie...meanwhile the coaching staff is the best money can buy.[/quote]How long can a guy basically be a rookie? Campbell's in his 3rd year. Grossman, who constantly got cited for inexperience, is in his 5th year. We (the media included) can't be playing the inexperience card until a guy finally comes through.

Campbell has 3rd year expectations to meet. If he doesn't at least come close by the end of the year, I'd start to get very concerned about the accuracy of our projections for him.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=skinsfan69;358773]Our offensive coaching staff ( Joe Gibbs) doesn't coach aggressive football the way the Pats do. Plus they have Tom Brady and he makes it all go. They could not run that type of offense w/ out him. The guy is completing almost 80% of his passes. That is just ridicules.[/quote]Brady had an absolutely sick month of September. However, as his career stats allude to, this will not continue. The Patriots are going to suffer some losses because of adversity that they will have to deal with when Brady plays more like he has in past years than he has this month.

Still, I predicted that he would have his best year as a pro, and though I believe he will hit some adversity in the next two months, im not backing off my prediction.

Oh yeah, the Colts are playing the best football I've ever seen right now (a LOT better than last year), but no one notices because of what Brady is doing. Just a little side note.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;358879]How long can a guy basically be a rookie? Campbell's in his 3rd year. Grossman, who constantly got cited for inexperience, is in his 5th year. We (the media included) can't be playing the inexperience card until a guy finally comes through.

Campbell has 3rd year expectations to meet. If he doesn't at least come close by the end of the year, I'd start to get very concerned about the accuracy of our projections for him.[/quote]

What are your expectations for Campbell right now? I'm perfectly happy to watch a potential budding star with a cannon arm and guts, even if it means he needs to work on his short range accuracy and read progression.

All of the issues that Campbell is displaying can be fixed by coaching and game experience. And not even the elite quarterbacks come in and play lights out from the start. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer both had very mediocre seasons when they took over for their respective teams. Campbell will just be making his 11th start. The fact that it's his third season doesn't matter. Second string practice reps are not even in the same ball park as actual game reps when it comes to experience.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;358881]Brady had an absolutely sick month of September. However, as his career stats allude to, this will not continue. The Patriots are going to suffer some losses because of adversity that they will have to deal with when Brady plays more like he has in past years than he has this month.

Still, I predicted that he would have his best year as a pro, and though I believe he will hit some adversity in the next two months, im not backing off my prediction.

Oh yeah, the Colts are playing the best football I've ever seen right now (a LOT better than last year), but no one notices because of what Brady is doing. Just a little side note.[/quote]

What do you mean by past years?? Brady always throws 24-28 td's every year. The guy has done more with less than probably any QB in the NFL. Deion Branch, Troy Brown and David Givens are not the most gifted wr's in the NFL. And last year he had Caldwell as his #1 target and still almost got the the SB.

I would tend to think that Brady is not going to complete 80% by seasons end. I mean no qb could do that. But he might come close cause he has never had this type of talent at WR. Plus they still have Chad Jackson ( last year's #1 pick) on the bench.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;358879]How long can a guy basically be a rookie? Campbell's in his 3rd year. Grossman, who constantly got cited for inexperience, is in his 5th year. We (the media included) can't be playing the inexperience card until a guy finally comes through.

Campbell has 3rd year expectations to meet. If he doesn't at least come close by the end of the year, I'd start to get very concerned about the accuracy of our projections for him.[/quote]

Tripp, I would look at it this way. Yes he is in his 3rd year. But the 1st year was a complete waste. Then last year he had to learn a new offense, and had no practice with the 1st team offense till mid season. So this is his 1st full year and only his 11th start. He is going to need a full season. I think as the season goes on he will grow and get better with more game experience. If he is still missing on this stuff this time next year then I would start to worry.

The short stuff is a problem but I think that will work itself out. I would much rather have a guy that is a great deep thower than a guy who hits all the short passes but can't back the defense off the line. Wouldn't you?

Alot of young guys are still struggling. Rivers, Leinart Loosman and Smith. Look at Brees? He's playing terrible right now. I'm happy with him right now and he is going to be a stud. It's just going to take time. Be patient.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;358888]What are your expectations for Campbell right now? I'm perfectly happy to watch a potential budding star with a cannon arm and guts, even if it means he needs to work on his short range accuracy and read progression.

All of the issues that Campbell is displaying can be fixed by coaching and game experience. And not even the elite quarterbacks come in and play lights out from the start. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer both had very mediocre seasons when they took over for their respective teams. Campbell will just be making his 11th start. The fact that it's his third season doesn't matter. Second string practice reps are not even in the same ball park as actual game reps when it comes to experience.[/QUOTE]

Ain't no f*ckin ballpark, it ain't even the same f*ckin sport!

Exactly, the guy is only making start #11 in the NFL and all of a sudden some part of his game sucks. All of his mistakes can be coached up. You can teach a guy how to throw a short pass. You can't teach heart and I like the way Campbell has displayed it so far.

However, heart can't be shown in any metrics, so a lot of people around here will probably not be happy with Campbell.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;358752]I don't remember attacking alot when we were up 14 pts. I remember running, running, and then on 3rd down and long passing. Of course later in the game when we were down 7, we started passing. Alot of difference.

Look there's got to be a good mixing of playcalls. Tom Brady is a 1st ballot HOF qb and one of the best i've ever seen. As a team we've got to mix it up. [B]We're too predictable when we have a lead.[/B] Run, Run, Pass....Run, Run, Run...etc.[/QUOTE]

Well, if you saw Super Bowl XXII against Denver, the playcalling got VERY predictable once we were up 35-10 and 42-10 -- Gibbs called counter-trey to the right, counter-trey to the left on just about every play. As a result, Timmy Smith still holds the record for most rushing yards in a Super Bowl.

The point is, predictable playcalling isn't necessarily bad -- especially when it's working. If the running plays Al Saunders called against the Giants are executed properly, the offensive linemen for the Redskins neutralize and push back the Giant defensive linemen, then those predictable running plays get yardage, and this thread doesn't exist. Even if the Giants defense knows it's coming, they still have to stop it. Just like the Broncos knew it was coming back in 1988, and couldn't do anything to prevent it.

Again folks, it's the execution. NOT the playcalling.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;358689]When I played baseball in high school, we had this centerfielder with a cannon for an arm. And incredibly accurate. One day, as we had maxed out all our pitchers I made the brilliant suggest of "Hey coach, why not Dave? He's got a great arm. He can just fire some heat in there"

So, Dave went up to pitch and just like I thought he was firing the ball. Except his aim was all over the place. Basically, he had no idea how to hit his target unless he was really far away. It was weird and has nothing to do with this thread really, but anyway...

I imagine it's an adjustment (a slower than expected adjustment, I think) for Campbell and the receivers. Particulary the wide receivers. One minute you're catching touch passes from a 6-foot left-hander, the next you're catching rockets from 5 yards away from a 6'5" right-hander. That's quite a difference[/QUOTE]

Baseball isn't football

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=Beemnseven;358911]Well, if you saw Super Bowl XXII against Denver, the playcalling got VERY predictable once we were up 35-10 and 42-10 -- Gibbs called counter-trey to the right, counter-trey to the left on just about every play. As a result, Timmy Smith still holds the record for most rushing yards in a Super Bowl.

The point is, predictable playcalling isn't necessarily bad -- especially when it's working. If the running plays Al Saunders called against the Giants are executed properly, the offensive linemen for the Redskins neutralize and push back the Giant defensive linemen, then those predictable running plays get yardage, and this thread doesn't exist. Even if the Giants defense knows it's coming, they still have to stop it. Just like the Broncos knew it was coming back in 1988, and couldn't do anything to prevent it.

Again folks, it's the execution. NOT the playcalling.[/quote]

That was 50 years ago. It's a passing league now.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=MTRedskinsFan;358680]Why does Campbell throw so many short yardage passes high and behind his receivers? If his execution was better in this area we probably would be 3-0 right now.[/quote]

Because this is his first full season as a starter. Recievers and QBs have to get there timing down and once Jason gets all the kinks out, your going to see a star born in washington. The kid has too many tools to be unsuccesful, but hes going to make mistakes, thats what a first year starter does, just give it time.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=Beemnseven;358911]Well, if you saw Super Bowl XXII against Denver, the playcalling got VERY predictable once we were up 35-10 and 42-10 -- Gibbs called counter-trey to the right, counter-trey to the left on just about every play. As a result, Timmy Smith still holds the record for most rushing yards in a Super Bowl.

The point is, predictable playcalling isn't necessarily bad -- especially when it's working. If the running plays Al Saunders called against the Giants are executed properly, the offensive linemen for the Redskins neutralize and push back the Giant defensive linemen, then those predictable running plays get yardage, and this thread doesn't exist. Even if the Giants defense knows it's coming, they still have to stop it. Just like the Broncos knew it was coming back in 1988, and couldn't do anything to prevent it.

Again folks, it's the execution. NOT the playcalling.[/quote]

It had to be a little different considering the OL Joe Gibbs had to work with then, possibly the greatest of all-time.

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=Sean Taylor;358912]Baseball isn't football[/quote]


Well what do you know another genius on board.....nice capn. obvious

How to finish a game.......WITH A WIN THIS SUNDAY AGAINST DETROIT!

Re: How to finish a game..
 

You finish the game with Mike Sellers up the gut for a TD.

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[quote=Sean Taylor;358924]You finish the game with Mike Sellers up the gut for a TD.[/quote]

Its easy to say that now, but what if Sellers doesnt get in, your trying to open pandoras box with all the woulda coulda shouldas, no one in here is a headcoach, theres no guarentee that any of the plays would have worked, New York just played great defense at the goal line, lets leave it at that and move on to the Lions

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;358911]Well, if you saw Super Bowl XXII against Denver, the playcalling got VERY predictable once we were up 35-10 and 42-10 -- Gibbs called counter-trey to the right, counter-trey to the left on just about every play. As a result, Timmy Smith still holds the record for most rushing yards in a Super Bowl.

The point is, predictable playcalling isn't necessarily bad -- especially when it's working. If the running plays Al Saunders called against the Giants are executed properly, the offensive linemen for the Redskins neutralize and push back the Giant defensive linemen, then those predictable running plays get yardage, and this thread doesn't exist. Even if the Giants defense knows it's coming, they still have to stop it. Just like the Broncos knew it was coming back in 1988, and couldn't do anything to prevent it.

Again folks, it's the execution. NOT the playcalling.[/QUOTE]
35-10 is a HUGE difference than 17-3, 17-10 and 17-17.. Are you truly going to cite 'execution' and not philosophy when we've lost 11 games with a 2nd half lead and 12 games with a lead of 11 points or more since Gibbs has returned? If that's execution then that makes me REALLY question what the players are getting coached on to squander that many games..

Re: How to finish a game..
 

[quote=Paintrain;358942]35-10 is a HUGE difference than 17-3, 17-10 and 17-17.. Are you truly going to cite 'execution' and not philosophy when we've lost 11 games with a 2nd half lead and 12 games with a lead of 11 points or more since Gibbs has returned? If that's execution then that makes me REALLY question what the players are getting coached on to squander that many games..[/quote]They are, in many cases, less talented than the other team in more than a few ways.

Why is this such a difficult concept?