Kobe a Wizard?
 

[url=http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10230903]Atlanta Hawks, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bynum, Antonio Daniels, National Basketball Association, Boston Red Sox, Boston Celtics - CBS SportsLine.com[/url]

How would u like a Kobe for Arenas trade? Discuss...

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Not sure Kobe would be any happier here. The comp players aren't much better than he has already.

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;319776][URL="http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10230903"]Atlanta Hawks, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bynum, Antonio Daniels, National Basketball Association, Boston Red Sox, Boston Celtics - CBS SportsLine.com[/URL]

How would u like a Kobe for Arenas trade? Discuss...[/quote]



wont happen str8 up. not a fair deal for the lakers.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;319778]Not sure Kobe would be any happier here. The comp players aren't much better than he has already.[/QUOTE]

main difference; he'll be in the weak east

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;319779]wont happen str8 up. not a fair deal for the lakers.[/QUOTE]

They don't have much leverage at this point.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Give me Arenas any day of the week. Arenas is a great player, but more importantly he's such a good ambassador for the team.

There's a Jamison for Shawn Marion rumor floating around as well. I hope that doesn't happen either.

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[quote=FRPLG;319781]They don't have much leverage at this point.[/quote]


yes they do because kobe is under contract

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Arenas has far more character and class than Kobe. Gilbert is about 4 years younger. Gilbert is cheaper. Also, I think Gil is the type of player who makes the players around him better -- Kobe is not. If the Wiz did this they would wreck the team's chemistry. It would be an extreme bonehead decision all the way around.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319837]Arenas has far more character and class than Kobe. Gilbert is about 4 years younger. Gilbert is cheaper. Also, I think Gil is the type of player who makes the players around him better -- Kobe is not. If the Wiz did this they would wreck the team's chemistry. It would be an extreme bonehead decision all they way around.[/quote]


Kobe is the best player in the league period. Would you trust the scrubs that he has? At least Agent 0 has Butler (who the lakers had and traded for scrub brown) and Jamison.

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;319811]yes they do because kobe is under contract[/QUOTE]

hahahahaha

are you kidding me?

Let's see. He basically skewered Bynum so bringing Kobe back at this point would:

- Probably create a seriously caustic locker room situation. Always good for a basketball team.
- Send Bynum off the deep end potentially stunting his development. Always good for one of your main building blocks.
- Put a guy who hates the team, and happens to be 75% of the production, on the floor. Wonder how that'll work out? I am sure Kobe will suck it up and put 100% effort into it. Yeah definitely.
- Let's see...most likely piss off a sizeable segment of the fan base who rightfully think Kobe is a major turd.


Yeah you're right. They definitely have all the leverage in the world.

They'll be lucky to get .50 on the dollar for him.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;319802]Give me Arenas any day of the week. Arenas is a great player, but more importantly he's such a good ambassador for the team.

There's a Jamison for Shawn Marion rumor floating around as well. I hope that doesn't happen either.[/QUOTE]

What would be wrong with Jamison for Marion? I think Marion is a far superior player.

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[quote=FRPLG;319841]hahahahaha

are you kidding me?

Let's see. He basically skewered Bynum so bringing Kobe back at this point would:

- Probably create a seriously caustic locker room situation. Always good for a basketball team.
- Send Bynum off the deep end potentially stunting his development. Always good for one of your main building blocks.
- Put a guy who hates the team, and happens to be 75% of the production, on the floor. Wonder how that'll work out? I am sure Kobe will suck it up and put 100% effort into it. Yeah definitely.
- Let's see...most likely piss off a sizeable segment of the fan base who rightfully think Kobe is a major turd.


Yeah you're right. They definitely have all the leverage in the world.

They'll be lucky to get .50 on the dollar for him.[/quote]


they can still say we wont trade you

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;319840]Kobe is the best player in the league period.[/QUOTE]

I totally disagree. He hasn't done squat since Shaq left, except score 81 points. Which, IMO, is indicative of his selfish play. The best player in the league right now is Duncan -- hands down.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319847]I totally disagree. He hasn't done squat since Shaq left, except score 81 points. Which, IMO, is indicative of his selfish play. The best player in the league right now is Duncan -- hands down.[/quote]


once again put duncan on the lakers see how many points he HAS to score. 81 points was not selfish, he has no help to do anything. Kobe is the best player hands down.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=jdlea;319844]What would be wrong with Jamison for Marion? I think Marion is a far superior player.[/quote]
i don't know the salary cap part of it, but Marion is definitely the better player. whats sad about Bryant is, top 3 player in the league, and some rumors about him coming home to Philly. as a big sixer fan, I'm not sure i want him. too much baggage

Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;319846]they can still say we wont trade you[/QUOTE]

And he could still see to it that they lose 80 games next year and play to half empty arenas the last half of the year.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

As a diehard Lakers fan I am pissed off at Kobe. I mean how self centered can he be? I agree that the Lakers have made some bad moves the last few years but come on. If Kobe had any class he would shut the F up and help the Lakers rebuild. I could never picture Magic Johnson pulling this crap. Does he forget that the Lakers supported his ass through all the Colorado BS? Our that they dumped Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Paton and others to rebuild around him? Did he really think the Lakers would be champs again over night? For him to rip the organization and it's players to two strangers in a parking lot is just flabbergasting to me. At this point I almost don’t care if he gets traded. Even though I will have to change my licens plate from 8 LAKERS to HATE 24. F that little spoiled bit-h! Where does he think he can go and win a ring next year? N.Y,Philly? lol
All that being said I think this will die down and Kobe will be wearing a Lakers uniform come Oct. There really aren't many places he can go.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I will go on record to say that Kobe will never win another championship again.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I agree that although Kobe is a better all around player than Gil, Gil means so much more to the organization and the city and is truly my favorite player in the league. Can you see Kobe playing in the summer league games at Barry Farms in SE?

As far as Marion for Antawn? Their salaries are pretty similar and if it were a straight swap, I'd do it in a second. I think Antawn is great, but Marion gives you all the intangibles that the Wizards are missing with his hustle, lock-down D, and rebounding, and he's a few years younger (Antawn is a better scorer). Either way, I can't see that happening.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;319844]What would be wrong with Jamison for Marion? I think Marion is a far superior player.[/QUOTE]

Because of the intangibles. The salaries match pretty evenly and talent-wise yes Marion is superior. But just about every NBA guy I've talked to says Jamison, a very talented player lest we forget, is the kind of guy every coach wants. He has a calming effect on teammates, is a great locker room leader, and a great communicator. A lot of people think he'll be a great coach himself one day. Plus we saw how the Wizards swooned for a spell when he went down during the season.

Marion, on the other hand, is a bit of a malcontent. He's just not getting the pub that Kobe is getting at the moment. Marion wants to be the man and he doesn't feel he's getting that love in Phoenix.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;319893]Because of the intangibles. The salaries match pretty evenly and talent-wise yes Marion is superior. But just about every NBA guy I've talked to says Jamison, a very talented player lest we forget, is the kind of guy every coach wants. He has a calming effect on teammates, is a great locker room leader, and a great communicator. A lot of people think he'll be a great coach himself one day. Plus we saw how the Wizards swooned for a spell when he went down during the season.

Marion, on the other hand, is a bit of a malcontent. He's just not getting the pub that Kobe is getting at the moment. Marion wants to be the man and he doesn't feel he's getting that love in Phoenix.[/QUOTE]

I considered this after I posted because I remembered that Jamison is the captain of the team. However, I am biased because Marion is one of my favorite players in the league.

As for Marion being a malcontent; I would agree that he is in Phoenix. I think he realizes how good he is and can be and is just frustrated that the Suns barely utilize him. I think it would be a mistake for the Suns to trade him for Jamison. I don't think they need another "character guy" I think they need someone like the Matrix who can score up to 25 a game barely touching the ball. I would prefer Marion because he could be much more productive here than Jamison has been and is also, IMO, a better rebounder and defender. While I'm not trying to undermine the importance of a guy like Jamison, I don't think he produces enough ON the floor to keep if you can get a guy like Marion for him.

Also, if we could get them to eat either Thomas or Haywood, that'd be nice, cause one of them has gotta go.

Finally, I think it's funny that this is an option because I've made this trade in every single basketball franchise I run with the Wizards on 2K7.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319847]I totally disagree. He hasn't done squat since Shaq left, except score 81 points. Which, IMO, is indicative of his selfish play. The best player in the league right now is Duncan -- hands down.[/quote]

Ghetto, the NBA hasn't seen a dominant player like Kobe since MJ. Period.

He is head and shoulders above the rest of the NBA right now. Yes, King James included.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319915]Ghetto, the NBA hasn't seen a dominant player like Kobe since MJ. Period.

He is head and shoulders above the rest of the NBA right now. Yes, King James included.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think Kobe is so dominant? Would you take Kobe over Duncan? Sure, if Kobe wants to score, nobody can really stop him. However, the same can be said of AI.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319919]Why do you think Kobe is so dominant? Would you take Kobe over Duncan? Sure, if Kobe wants to score, nobody can really stop him. However, the same can be said of AI.[/quote]

I think if you limit Kobe's prowess to just scoring, then yes, you can easily measure him with about a half dozen or so players in the NBA.

But I would contend, defensely, he's in the top 10 or so and offensively he's, without a doubt, the most prolific scorer since MJ. More than that, he can change the tempo of the game and can single handedly and consistently, I might add, will his team to victory.

All this talk about Kobe being selfish and he loves to shoot is pure garbage. Every great scorer has a high a shooting percentage, and during the playoffs last year, Kobe's downfall was that he deferred to his supporting cast too often.

If Duncan has an off game, he has two or three All-Stars to pick up the pieces, not so with Kobe Bryant. People's biggest issue with him is the perception, rightfully or wrongfully so, that he's selfish and a whiner.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I'll add this too. I love it when people say, "Well Shaq got a ring without Kobe, but Kobe...blah, blah.., blah. Whatever.

Shaq had, what, three or four perennial All-Stars on his team that year? He was simply the missing piece, and we saw what happend to the Heat this year.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319920]I think if you limit Kobe's prowess to just scoring, then yes, you can easily measure him with about a half dozen or so players in the NBA.

But I would contend, defensely, he's in the top 10 or so and offensively he's, without a doubt, the most prolific scorer since MJ. More than that, he can change the tempo of the game and can single handedly and consistently, I might add, will his team to victory.

All this talk about Kobe being selfish and he loves to shoot is pure garbage. Every great scorer has a high a shooting percentage, and during the playoffs last year, Kobe's downfall was that he deferred to his supporting cast too often.

If Duncan has an off game, he has two or three All-Stars to pick up the pieces, not so with Kobe Bryant. People's biggest issue with him is the perception, rightfully or wrongfully so, that he's selfish and a whiner.[/QUOTE]

I agree with almost everything you wrote. I just don't think he dominates. In fact, with the exception of a healthy Shaq and possibly Duncan, I don't think anybody dominates in the NBA. Also, if Kobe can singlehandedly, and consistently, will his team to victory, why don't they win more?

My biggest problem with Kobe is his attitude. He is not a team player, and he is a poor sport. That crap he did flailing his arm is totally classless. That was really the last straw for me.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319924]I agree with almost everything you wrote. I just don't think he dominates. In fact, with the exception of a healthy Shaq and possibly Duncan, I don't think anybody dominates in the NBA. Also, if Kobe can singlehandedly, and consistently, will his team to victory, why don't they win more?

My biggest problem with Kobe is his attitude. He is not a team player, and he is a poor sport. That crap he did flailing his arm is totally classless. That was really the last straw for me.[/quote]

Good question, why don't they win more. I don't know how far back you go, but during Jordan's first few seasons with the Bulls he was tearing it up and yet the Bulls sucked ass year after year. It wasn't until they added a few solid role playes and Phil Jackson, (wink, wink) that things took off for the franchise. Look the Celtics had an incredible run during the 80s with Larry Bird, but they always had two or three excellent players around him - always. Same with the Sixers, same with the Lakers of old. I could go on and on here.

The formula is simple, we'll let "him" beat us, but "you guys" won't beat us. It's just not possible, no matter how great the player is.

You're right, the rub on Kobe is his attitude. He's never really escaped that rape charge back in Colorado. What I mean is, he's only done and said things to further cement in the minds of the public of what an asshole he is, or at least can be.

I'll still contend when it comes to playing unselfishly, I don't have a problem with him.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319927]Good question, why don't they win more. I don't know how far back you go, but during Jordan's first few seasons with the Bulls he was tearing it up and yet the Bulls sucked ass year after year. It wasn't until they added a few solid role playes and Phil Jackson, (wink, wink) that things took off for the franchise. Look the Celtics had an incredible run during the 80s with Larry Bird, but they always had two or three excellent players around him - always. Same with the Sixers, same with the Lakers of old. I could go on and on here.

The formula is simple, we'll let "him" beat us, but "you guys" won't beat us. It's just not possible, no matter how great the player is.

You're right, the rub on Kobe is his attitude. He's never really escaped that rape charge back in Colorado. What I mean is, he's only done and said things to further cement in the minds of the public of what an asshole he is, or at least can be.

I'll still contend when it comes to playing unselfishly, I don't have a problem with him.[/QUOTE]

Do you think MJ could win with players like Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Vlade Divac? I think MJ could, but Kobe couldn't. I guess the problem that season was Rudy Tomjanovich? I know that was a rebuilding year, and the chemistry was a little off. I also know that you can have a great team and still lose. I'm not blaming Kobe for that. He just doesn't improve the players around him. MJ did, and I can name a handful of other players who do -- most notably Gilbert Arenas.

There are some players who have a positive effect on team chemistry and some players who have either a negative effect, or no effect at all. I'm not saying Kobe has a negative effect on team chemistry (he probably does), I'm just saying he doesn't have a positive effect. No amount of talent, or points scored, can overcome poor chemistry. Case study: every US Olympic basketball team since 1994.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

When Kobe learns how to play some defense I'd consider this. Until then, resign agent 0.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;319936]When Kobe learns how to play some defense I'd consider this. Until then, resign agent 0.[/QUOTE]

Kobe plays great D. I don't know who you’ve been watching.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

But trading Butler and Arenas for Kobe solves nothing. We are still at least one big man away from competing for a title, and we'll still probably be behind the Bulls and maybe even the Cavs in the east. If you can make a trade like this and win a championship then you do it, but I can't believe that would happen.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Kobe plays great D. Hard to argue that.

As for the Wizards they could be radically different next year. Hayes, Haywood, Thomas could all be gone. Blatche and Pecherov should see bigger roles on the team. So might Juan Carlos Navarro.

Stevenson might not be back. If he doesn't come back I'd love to see Grant Hill here. And if we're going to trade Jamison I'd trade him to Memphis for Pau Gasol.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/teams/Los+Angeles+Lakers/nba.t.13]Rumors - Los Angeles Lakers - NBA - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

It's funny how people equate being a great scorer with being a poor defender. Trust me, Kobe makes All-Defense team on a regular basis.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=SmootSmack;319947]Kobe plays great D. Hard to argue that.

As for the Wizards they could be radically different next year. Hayes, Haywood, Thomas could all be gone. Blatche and Pecherov should see bigger roles on the team. So might Juan Carlos Navarro.

Stevenson might not be back. If he doesn't come back I'd love to see Grant Hill here. And if we're going to trade Jamison I'd trade him to Memphis for Pau Gasol.[/quote]

Fire in the Hole!

I don't think they need to do all that. Haywood yes, gone. Hayes, does anyone really care at this point?

I think they should at least think about keeping Stephenson and Thomas, although I'm not up to speed on NBA capology.

I agree with you that more Blatche is needed. Jamison trade unlikely. Abe considers him family, like Ade.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;319936]When Kobe learns how to play some defense I'd consider this. Until then, resign agent 0.[/QUOTE]

I love when people make comments that show they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Kobe is a perennial member of the all-defensive team.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=FRPLG;319983]I love when people make comments that show they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Kobe is a perennial member of the all-defensive team.[/quote]


Seriously that guy has no idea what he is talking about. Kobe is a top 5 perimeter defender in this league.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Wow, clearly there is desperation for threads here.
Come on football season...we need you now.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

Seriously to half-quote AI: we talking bout Kobe? Not even a serious trade offer, but Kobe?

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

NO WAY.

Gilbert is a better all-around player, a better teammate (won't disrupt the team with selfishness) and is a great guy to have for the local community.

I'll be majorly ticked off if Kobe comes to Washington, even more so if we lose Arenas.