Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

ESPN is having an Outside the Lines covering the dogfighting issue with an informant who will place Michael Vick at dogfights and claims he is a "heavyweight" of digfighting.

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2884063&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1"]ESPN.com: Source: Vick a 'heavyweight' in dog fighting[/URL]

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/index"]ESPN.com - ESPN/OTL[/URL]

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

i saw the show, and think Vick must have pissed someone off. i would be surprised is he isn't suspended this season at some point. what a buffoon

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

Yea, I saw it also, he's gettin ready to have a one on one with the Commish! That FOOL is next! I hope they hammer his ass, that Matt Schaub move isn't looking so smart right about now!

Also, that was some brutal dog fighting. ANYONE who finds that entertaining is a COMPLETE 100% PIECE OF SHIT!

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

This is an ongoing investigation and I'm anxious to see what Poindexter is going to use for evidence to charge Vick. The informant's story sounded convincing, but unless he's willing to tell his story to a grand jury, it's worthless.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

If what the informant says is true, Vick put a lot of money down on these fights also. Tens of thousands from what the article said. Thing is the DA still only has hersay evidence on Vick. Even if this guy testifies, it will still be hard to nail Vick. There has to be more than one person that comes forward to have Vick nailed for this. A few days ago the DA even admitted that he didn't have concrete evidence against Vick. But the plot thickens everyday with this one, so Vick might be toast when all of it comes out. I love how NFL Security offered to help with the investigation. All they would do would be to hinder it to cover their ass. It will be a black mark on the NFL if Vick goes down for this.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

I'll tell ya one thing Poindexter is dragging he feet, now he has alot of outside pressure to do his JOB. Being Vicks old place is very close to my home, there's TONS of evidence. It's getting these TARDS to tell the truth and Poin to do his damn JOB.

Around here it is very clear someone slipped old Poin some cash, hoping he could make this whole thing just blow over. IT'S NOT! Vicks own so called hoodlum buddies are even turning on him. That everywhere I go people love me shit ain't workin around his home town! Now what that means as far as charges go, anyones guess at this point. When it's all said and done I won't be suprised one bit to see Poin go BYE, BYE.

One thing is for sure this thing isn't going away, as Vick thought it was! Futhermore, the COMMISH can do what he feels is right, he doesn't need any formal charges to lay down a suspension.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

People are so quick to judge. Let the law take its course. Vick might well be guilty but I don't think ESPN is exactly the cradle of journalistic integrity. This whole thing really reminds me of the Sean Taylor thing a few years back.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

If Vick is guilty of these crimes, then once he goes to prison he'll be in there for a while. And once he gets out his playing days will be long gone. Watching the video of those dogs fighting made me sick. Anyone who enjoys that sort of cruelty to animals needs help.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;313644]I'll tell ya one thing Poindexter is dragging he feet, now he has alot of outside pressure to do his JOB. Being Vicks old place is very close to my home, there's TONS of evidence. It's getting these TARDS to tell the truth and Poin to do his damn JOB.[/quote]

Articles in the Virginian Pilot have said there are witnesses that will put Vick on the property multiple times, recently, and others that will put him at a local pharmacy purchasing needles and drugs associated with dogfighting. There was also a case mentioned that was prosecuted with primarily circumstancial evidence which resulted in a 4 yr. conviction and the investigator from that case has offered his assistance.

I am pretty concerned that Poin has not moved quicker and I definitely agree with you about the "funny money" to make this disappear. Before this blew up in the national media, comments out of his office indicated there would be no charges filed. Now with the media firestorm he is in a position where he better charge someone or it will be his hind-quarters out to dry. I think that is why he is going to consult with the VA Attorney General's office to make sure they have his back before going forward. At this point (I'm trying to be positive) I hope his office is being thorough so that once charges are filed they will stick, and he won't look like an idiot if those charged (Vick or whomever) walk.

With that said, whether Vick is convicted or not, IMO he was involved in this. While he is never going to be broke, he will at the very least lose a majority of his endorsement $$$. I would love to see him convicted and do jail time.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

Whatever happens, happens. Vick's rep is tarnished regardless. He is not the superstar everyone thought he should be. The Falcons were mediocre with Vick, now they just will plain suck!!!!!

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

You have to ask yourself why the Surrey County prosecutor has been so cautious about all of this and why he is trying to hand the entire matter off to someone else to do the investigation and the possible indicting.

MOST prosecutors dream of the day they can accuse someone famous of some kind of hideous crime. This dude wants to be deep in the shadows...

Makes me wonder if he has a couple of pit bulls that he trains to ...

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

He might just be nerovus about the blowback over prosecuting Vick. Might be thinking there might be considerable support for Vick, if he is brought to trial, possible death threats, and yes having his personal life pried into. He might not have dogs fighting, but if he has other skeletons in his closet they will be laid bare for all to see. My bet is he just doesn't want the spotlight on him and/or the case to become a major media event that turns out to be another OJ type joke trial.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;313658]He might just be nerovus about the blowback over prosecuting Vick. Might be thinking there might be considerable support for Vick, if he is brought to trial, possible death threats, and yes having his personal life pried into. He might not have dogs fighting, but if he has other skeletons in his closet they will be laid bare for all to see. My bet is he just doesn't want the spotlight on him and/or the case to become a major media event.[/quote]

If that was also Poin's bet, not wanting spotlight on himself first of all he picked the wrong occupation (which is very apparent to begin with) or the case to become a major media circus....? HE LOST THAT BET, BIG TIME, ABOUT A MONTH AGO!

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

I think the Duke lacrosse case is evidence enough that an over-eager prosecutor is FAR worse than a slow one. If Vick is found guilty, then I'm all for throwing the book at him, until then just let the investigation run its course.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=LMsexyAO;313667]I think the Duke lacrosse case is evidence enough that an over-eager prosecutor is FAR worse than a slow one. If Vick is found guilty, then I'm all for throwing the book at him, until then just let the investigation run its course.[/quote]


Well stated.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

Yeah I saw the interview with the "informant" talking about how the dog community is worried about Vick talking to save his ass. Funny seeing that's what this prick is doing. Now don't get me wrong IF Vick is proven to have participated in dog fighting then I say punish him for what he did and not just try to prove a point because of who he is. I found it pretty nice how when ESPN read the letter from the Mayor of California ? I could be wrong but someone out there who pretty much told the NFL if you fuck with him you don't fuck with us. Now that's innocent until proven guilty for ya! Someone made a good point. This has been played out much like the Sean Taylor situation. Whatever "evidence" there is it is played up to give the public the perception of guilt.

Hey Gus quick question. What about the O.J. trial made it a joke ?

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[LIST=1][*]OJ murdered two people and got away with it...[*]Ray Lewis either had a direct hand in killing someone or at the very least knows who did...According to the Atlanta police their conclusion was that the man was killed but there was no murderer, they actually closed the case rather than leave it unsolved...[*]Kobe bryant had sex with a girl in a VERY rough manner...enough to cause her to bleed out of her orifices. Something about that doesn't seem like completely consensual sex throughout the entire deed.[*]I'm not saying that dogfighting isn't heinous, but in the grand scheme of things the above listed crimes are far worst than illegal dogfighting, but what was the outcome?[/LIST]The moral is that if you are famous/have money or both, the legal system in this country allows for you to escape prosecution. The DA obviously doesn't have enough evidence to even charge Vick, much less win a court case. Especially after the Duke lax scandal, prosecutors are becoming more and more wary of fallacious charges or ones that won't stick and end up costing the taxpayers a ton of money, so I don't expect Vick to be charged unless something concrete surfaces out (like a paper trail NOT just conjecture). Without charges being drawn against Vick, Goodell cannot suspend him without major criticism. Sucks to be him right now cuz you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote]Kobe bryant had sex with a girl in a VERY rough manner...enough to cause her to bleed out of her orifices. Something about that doesn't seem like completely consensual sex throughout the entire deed.[/quote]

I'm no Kobe fan, but that could have been any one of the what, 5 guys, she had sex with in one night?

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[QUOTE=Rajmahal33;313689][LIST=1][*]OJ murdered two people and got away with it...[*]Ray Lewis either had a direct hand in killing someone or at the very least knows who did...According to the Atlanta police their conclusion was that the man was killed but there was no murderer, they actually closed the case rather than leave it unsolved...[*]Kobe bryant had sex with a girl in a VERY rough manner...enough to cause her to bleed out of her orifices. Something about that doesn't seem like completely consensual sex throughout the entire deed.[*]I'm not saying that dogfighting isn't heinous, but in the grand scheme of things the above listed crimes are far worst than illegal dogfighting, but what was the outcome?[/LIST]The moral is that if you are famous/have money or both, the legal system in this country allows for you to escape prosecution. [/QUOTE]

Then again

Former NFL receiver Rae Carruth is doing time in prison for playing a significant role in the murder of his then-pregnant girlfriend

Former NFL running back Stanley Wilson is doing time for armed burglary (I think it was armed burglary)

Former MLB pitcher Ugueth Urbina is about to be locked up (if he's not in jail already) after being found guilty of attempted murder

and there are others

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=SmootSmack;313700]Then again

Former NFL receiver Rae Carruth is doing time in prison for playing a significant role in the murder of his then-pregnant girlfriend

Former NFL running back Stanley Wilson is doing time for armed burglary (I think it was armed burglary)

Former MLB pitcher Ugueth Urbina is about to be locked up (if he's not in jail already) after being found guilty of attempted murder

and there are others[/quote]

Also, even if there is some truth to the theory that having money/being famous can keep you out of jail, it is certainly a double edge sword. OJ was found innocent, but he's also completely bankrupt and still in mountains of debt. Kobe was found innocent, yet how much money did he lose in endorsment deals alone? When you are a big name, just getting accused is enough to tarnish your career in a huge way.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[QUOTE=mooby;313646]If Vick is guilty of these crimes, then once he goes to prison he'll be in there for a while. And once he gets out his playing days will be long gone. Watching the video of those dogs fighting made me sick. Anyone who enjoys that sort of cruelty to animals needs help.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. If he enjoys this type of cruelty he needs help. Vick is a PR nightmare for the NFL in general and the Falcons in particular. I have to believe that the Falcons are looking for anyway possible to distance themselves from Vick and try to avoid losing fans.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=irish;313705]I totally agree. If he enjoys this type of cruelty he needs help. Vick is a PR nightmare for the NFL in general and the Falcons in particular. I have to believe that the Falcons are looking for anyway possible to distance themselves from Vick and try to avoid losing fans.[/quote]

The unfortunate situation the Falcons are in is that Vick is bad PR but great for revenue. And I have a distinct feeling that, in today's NFL culture, the latter will give way to the former. Vick will donate money to an animal related charity, apologize....again, then proceed to run for 150 yds in the season opener and this all will be behind him.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=mooby;313646]If Vick is guilty of these crimes, then once he goes to prison he'll be in there for a while. And once he gets out his playing days will be long gone. Watching the video of those dogs fighting made me sick. Anyone who enjoys that sort of cruelty to animals needs help.[/quote]

I saw the video too. That was pretty brutal stuff. Who gets off on watching two dogs rip each other apart? I don't think Vick is going to do any time for this because they just don't have enough hard evidence on him. But someone is going to go down for this.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;313706]The unfortunate situation the Falcons are in is that Vick is bad PR but great for revenue. And I have a distinct feeling that, in today's NFL culture, the latter will give way to the former. Vick will donate money to an animal related charity, apologize....again, then proceed to run for 150 yds in the season opener and this all will be behind him.[/QUOTE]

If this was the NBA (where stars are promoted over teams) I would believe Vick could run for 150 and all would be well but this is the NFL (where teams are promoted over stars) and until the Falcons win with Vick at the helm he will remain covered with the stink from this.

Also, I'm not sure how good Vick is for revenue anymore. His star was fading before this incident and now its fading even faster.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[QUOTE=Rajmahal33;313689]Without charges being drawn against Vick, Goodell cannot suspend him without major criticism. Sucks to be him right now cuz you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.[/QUOTE]

Oh no. No no.

Goodell has made it clear that criminal charges and guilty verdicts mean less than ever. His new personal conduct policy is meant to address people who are reflecting badly on the league. Being involved in illegal activities like this reflects badly. Goodell doesn't need any type of conviction. I will guarantee you that Vick is going to get punished when this all shakes out not matter how the criminal investigation comes down. This whole mess looks bad and that is what Goodell cares about. The whole new attitude is about these guys not putting themselves in positions where they make the league look bad even if they aren't specifically commiting crimes.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

These fights are brutal, but so is the media. I'll judge Vick when/if charges are brought against him and he is convicted. Until then, he needs to keep his mind on the game. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? This guy hasn't even been charged with a crime, but everyone is already trying to run him up the flagpole. Be patient young grasshopper's.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;313689][LIST=1][*]OJ murdered two people and got away with it...[*]Ray Lewis either had a direct hand in killing someone or at the very least knows who did...According to the Atlanta police their conclusion was that the man was killed but there was no murderer, they actually closed the case rather than leave it unsolved...[*]Kobe bryant had sex with a girl in a VERY rough manner...enough to cause her to bleed out of her orifices. Something about that doesn't seem like completely consensual sex throughout the entire deed.[*]I'm not saying that dogfighting isn't heinous, but in the grand scheme of things the above listed crimes are far worst than illegal dogfighting, but what was the outcome?[/LIST]The moral is that if you are famous/have money or both, the legal system in this country allows for you to escape prosecution. The DA obviously doesn't have enough evidence to even charge Vick, much less win a court case. Especially after the Duke lax scandal, prosecutors are becoming more and more wary of fallacious charges or ones that won't stick and end up costing the taxpayers a ton of money, so I don't expect Vick to be charged unless something concrete surfaces out (like a paper trail NOT just conjecture). Without charges being drawn against Vick, Goodell cannot suspend him without major criticism. Sucks to be him right now cuz you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.[/quote]

Is it Kobe's fault that he's hung like a horse?

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

This is the biggest bunch of crap on news today. If he did it, charge him and be done... good grief.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

While I have not doubt that MV is guilty or tainted with it through much of the "investigation", it is a CRIME to be tried in the press to this degree. There must be some way to stop the press access to information they currently enjoy until something concrete can be offered. His situation is hardly unique, but enough is enough.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

Now Goodell want a NFL Dog Fighting Resolution!!!!!!! What a frigging moron. Dogfighting is already illegal!!!!!!! Is he saying it isn't illegal for NFL players to participate in it unless there is a NFL statute saying so? I love how he has NFL Security "help" the criminal investigation out. Can you say sack the inestigation. God damn!!!!! I am thinking about switching to hockey or something. First it is the Cincy problems, now Vick, and god who knows who will be next screwing up or shooting someone. This is what happens when you give free rides to college for thugs just because they can run a 4.3 40 yard dash, or knows how to throw or catch a football. My bet is even if Vick is nailed, he will be let off scot free pretty much.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

After reading [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.html"]this[/URL] article and seeing the attached pictures, it's pretty hard to swallow the notion that Vick had no involvement in the operation. I know a [I]jury[/I] must presume innocence and can only convict a defendant upon finding guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I've pretty much made up my mind about the guy based on the article and the pics.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=SmootSmack;313700]Then again

Former NFL receiver Rae Carruth is doing time in prison for playing a significant role in the murder of his then-pregnant girlfriend

Former NFL running back Stanley Wilson is doing time for armed burglary (I think it was armed burglary)

Former MLB pitcher Ugueth Urbina is about to be locked up (if he's not in jail already) after being found guilty of attempted murder

and there are others[/quote]

Agreed. Mike Tyson, Jamal Lewis, Tank Johnson, etc...all did time too. No two cases are the same.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

Just wish these guys would wise up and cut the thuggish behavior out. Once you are on top like that the spotlight is going to be on you anyway, so why risk blowing everything. Trouble is since HS and by definitely college these guys are put on easy street, cut classes, inflated grades, basket weaving classes, etc. I remember friends from Univ of Mich telling me they saw members of the "Fab Five" in the early 90's drive around in Beemers from boosters no doubt. Too much crap like this going on and these guys get inflated heads like they can do anything. Thing is they are smart, they know they help get the butts into seats and make the universities millions, and the universities will look the other way if they screw up. Even a lot that do get nailed get let off easy. Univ of Michigan is one of the worst for that stuff. So much for higher learning.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

I hope he is found guilty and suspended for a season! He is a punk that is completely overrated!

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;313998]After reading [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.html"]this[/URL] article and seeing the attached pictures, it's pretty hard to swallow the notion that Vick had no involvement in the operation. I know a [I]jury[/I] must presume innocence and can only convict a defendant upon finding guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I've pretty much made up my mind about the guy based on the article and the pics.[/quote]

Thanks for posting the article. I can't believe that dog fighting is such a huge thing. People betting thousands of dollars on dogs is just insane.I assume that most people who fight dogs don't believe that they are breaking the law, or realize that it's a felony. Like the article says it is a subculture for alot of folks, just like hunting is.

I do not condone dog fighting in any way. As a dog lover I find it repulsive. But some of the things that Clinton Portis said really made sense to me. I think shooting a dear is just as bad as dog fighting. Yet it's legal. Not only is it legal but ESPN airs hunting shows usually on Sat. morning. They show some hillbilly in the woods with all his dear gear on and what not. They will show the actual act of someone shooting a dear and then the hillbilly will drag around a dead dear gloating. What they don't show is sometimes the first shot does not kill the dear and the animal will suffer a bit. I think it's a bunch of BS that this crap is actually show on TV. The only difference is one is legal and one is a felony. The reality is both are disgusting acts IMO.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;314007]Just wish these guys would wise up and cut the thuggish behavior out. Once you are on top like that the spotlight is going to be on you anyway, so why risk blowing everything. Trouble is since HS and by definitely college these guys are put on easy street, cut classes, inflated grades, basket weaving classes, etc. I remember friends from Univ of Mich telling me they saw members of the "Fab Five" in the early 90's drive around in Beemers from boosters no doubt. Too much crap like this going on and these guys get inflated heads like they can do anything. Thing is they are smart, they know they help get the butts into seats and make the universities millions, and the universities will look the other way if they screw up. Even a lot that do get nailed get let off easy. Univ of Michigan is one of the worst for that stuff. So much for higher learning.[/quote]

No question the fab five were taking handouts. But who is worse. The guys taking the handouts? Or the boosters that are preying on young college students who have no money?

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;313998]After reading [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.html"]this[/URL] article and seeing the attached pictures, it's pretty hard to swallow the notion that Vick had no involvement in the operation. I know a [I]jury[/I] must presume innocence and can only convict a defendant upon finding guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I've pretty much made up my mind about the guy based on the article and the pics.[/quote]


SGG, I agree with you, at some point a human has to have SENSE, he has NONE!

Here is the latest I just caught on the 6pm local news, search warrant papers filed.

[url=http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=6581395]WAVY TV 10 - News, Weather, Traffic, Sports for Hampton Roads, Virginia - North Eastern North Carolina - Commonwealth's Attorney and Sheriff defy court order to search Vick property[/url]

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;314014]Here is the latest I just caught on the 6pm local news, search warrant papers filed.

[URL="http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=6581395"]WAVY TV 10 - News, Weather, Traffic, Sports for Hampton Roads, Virginia - North Eastern North Carolina - Commonwealth's Attorney and Sheriff defy court order to search Vick property[/URL][/quote]

This is smelling worse & worse. Poindexter better have a good reason for not executing this warrant. I really don't like the fact that "NFL Security" is sticking their noses in here either.

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

why does that bother you?

Re: Michael Vick Update - Outside the Lines
 

[quote=dmek25;314038]why does that bother you?[/quote]

It bothers me for three reasons:
1) I can't see any benefit or input NFL Security could bring to the investigation.
2) A few other folks in these Vick/dogfighting threads have mentioned they feel that NFL Security is in this for the sole reason of feeding info on the investigation back to the NFL brass to play "damage control".
3) If you think about the old saying of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer", from the NFL's perspective this investigation is definitely the "enemy".

I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy, but if Michael Vick is put in a situation where it's jail time or rat out some other NFL folks in exchange for immunity, IMO he would rat for sure. If this investigation goes deeper than Vick and expands to more NFL players (which many believe it will if Vick ever started talking), it could cause a significant loss of "casual fans" for the NFL. The lost advertising revenue and merchandise sales would be in the multi-millions. Again IMO the NFL would take any steps necessary to be sure that doesn't happen. If it means hampering or sabotaging this investiagtion, I wouldn't put it past them.