I like Ginn!
 

Unless the top 3 lineman in which we have to pick from are bonified game changers, in other words the one we pick has to be special, he has to be able to change the coarse of a game, he cannot be just average or servicable, from the end position he has to be able to give us 12 plus sacks a year, from the line position [Branch] he has to be able to collapse the pocket consistantly, and draw a contstant double team, I haven't really seen enough film to make that judgement on any of them, maybe they can and maybe they can't but we better make sure we are not taken a player with the 6th pick who isn't going to do much more than eat space, which can be had later in the draft or is currently on the roster.

Which bring's me to Ginn, this guy is a phenomenal athlete, although he is a little raw as a reciever I don't want him as a reciever, I saw on a clip that he played CB in high school and he has hinted that he would like to play CB again, this kid could be the next Daryl Green his return skills are off the charts, I do believe he's been clocked in the 4.29 range. If we trade down once, maybe twice, he would still be available between 10 to 15 and we could snag 1, maybe 2, 2nd rd picks.

I know that the consenses is to take the D-lineman, but I find it hard to believe that any of the top lineman can impact the game like this kid, he has the potential to be a lockdown CB which we may need more than a D-lineman, and he could be this year's Devin Hester who can stay on the field, he is a better ball player over all than Hester regardless of where you play him. But I still want to see if any of these lineman are bonified.

Let's not get caught up in picking a lineman because of need and really not filling that need talent wise and come to find out next year we still need a pass rusher that happens all to often with a lot of these lineman, I would suggest to the Skins coaching staff to bring him in for a private workout and see if he shows the kind of coverage skills needed to succeed in the NFL, or can he be taught like Green was? Something tells me this kid is the sleeper in this draft if used properly!

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I still think we need to go with need. If all three linemen are gone, I think we need to work our asses off to trade down, if not, I guess we'd have to go with the best avalible player, which could be Ginn at that point. We already have one game changer at wide reciver, and enough game changers on the offense as a whole. I'm convinced that this offense can be competitive enough (as long as Jason continues to progress in the manner that he has) to win a championship. Our defense is nowhere close to being where they need to be, so I think we HAVE to go defense. Ginn is also good on specials, but that was another one of our few bright spots, so I really don't see much room for him. Just my opinion though.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711;278859]I still think we need to go with need. If all three linemen are gone, I think we need to work our asses off to trade down, if not, I guess we'd have to go with the best avalible player, which could be Ginn at that point. We already have one game changer at wide reciver, and enough game changers on the offense as a whole. I'm convinced that this offense can be competitive enough (as long as Jason continues to progress in the manner that he has) to win a championship. Our defense is nowhere close to being where they need to be, so I think we HAVE to go defense. Ginn is also good on specials, but that was another one of our few bright spots, so I really don't see much room for him. Just my opinion though.[/QUOTE]

The real value I feel and why we would pick him is if he could be moved to CB, if he could be a shutdown CB, and that is IF, then is he a guy we should target knowing how valuable and rare shutdown CB's are?

Re: I like Ginn!
 

this is a little rediculous, if he could be a shutdown corner than he never would have been a reciever at Ohio state, recievers are much easier to come by than a shut down corner

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Personally I'm starting to like Jamaal Anderson. First of all Anderson is young at 21 years old. He played against elite competition in the SEC (13.5 sacks), hes athletic (played WR in high school), and hes very raw coming out of college (a la Sean Taylor). This is your defensive game changer. Plus he'll be available when we pick.

1. Oak - JaMarcus Russell
2. Det - Joe Thomas
3. Cle - Brady Quinn
4. TB - C. Johnson
5. Ari - Levi Jones

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=offiss;278857]Unless the top 3 lineman in which we have to pick from are bonified game changers, in other words the one we pick has to be special, he has to be able to change the coarse of a game, he cannot be just average or servicable, from the end position he has to be able to give us 12 plus sacks a year, from the line position [Branch] he has to be able to collapse the pocket consistantly, and draw a contstant double team, I haven't really seen enough film to make that judgement on any of them, maybe they can and maybe they can't but we better make sure we are not taken a player with the 6th pick who isn't going to do much more than eat space, which can be had later in the draft or is currently on the roster.

Which bring's me to Ginn, this guy is a phenomenal athlete, although he is a little raw as a reciever I don't want him as a reciever, I saw on a clip that he played CB in high school and he has hinted that he would like to play CB again, this kid could be the next Daryl Green his return skills are off the charts, I do believe he's been clocked in the 4.29 range. If we trade down once, maybe twice, he would still be available between 10 to 15 and we could snag 1, maybe 2, 2nd rd picks.

I know that the consenses is to take the D-lineman, but I find it hard to believe that any of the top lineman can impact the game like this kid, he has the potential to be a lockdown CB which we may need more than a D-lineman, and he could be this year's Devin Hester who can stay on the field, he is a better ball player over all than Hester regardless of where you play him. But I still want to see if any of these lineman are bonified.

Let's not get caught up in picking a lineman because of need and really not filling that need talent wise and come to find out next year we still need a pass rusher that happens all to often with a lot of these lineman, I would suggest to the Skins coaching staff to bring him in for a private workout and see if he shows the kind of coverage skills needed to succeed in the NFL, or can he be taught like Green was? Something tells me this kid is the sleeper in this draft if used properly![/QUOTE]

wow.... I like alan branch. he will free up whoever lines up at MLB for us next season. Instant contributor and Greg Blache will get more out of him than most coaches

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I'm not going to piss on a suggestion to move a physical speciman like Ginn to CB, but I really don't want to be using a first rounder on a guy that we are just going to convert anyway.

This seems like a plausible day two move, and obviously would have to be with a player who isn't Ted Ginn.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;278863][B]Personally I'm starting to like Jamaal Anderson. First of all Anderson is young at 21 years old. He played against elite competition in the SEC (13.5 sacks), hes athletic (played WR in high school), and hes very raw coming out of college (a la Sean Taylor). This is your defensive game changer. Plus he'll be available when we pick.[/B]

1. Oak - JaMarcus Russell
2. Det - Joe Thomas
3. Cle - Brady Quinn
4. TB - C. Johnson
5. Ari - Levi Jones[/quote]

agreed


..........................................................................lunchbox dudes......................lunchbox....

Re: I like Ginn!
 

why do people on this board insist on trying to convert players to different positions? if it was that easy, everyone would do it

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Jason Campbell should punt

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;278918]Jason Cambell should punt[/quote]

nice

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;278918]Jason Campbell should punt[/QUOTE]

I was thinking he could convert to Middle Linebacker

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=offiss;278861]The real value I feel and why we would pick him is if he could be moved to CB, if he could be a shutdown CB, and that is IF, then is he a guy we should target knowing how valuable and rare shutdown CB's are?[/QUOTE]

Even the "shutdown" corners struggle when the quarterback has all day to throw. Coupled with the fact that Ginn didn't even play corner throughout most of his time at Ohio St., I'd say this would be a bad idea.

A persistant pass rush and the ability to collapse the pocket will help a defense more than a strong secondary without a decent D-line.

Assuming he isn't asking for anything astronomical, Nate Clements, a healthy Springs, Sean Taylor, and Carlos Rogers will look a whole lot better when they can depend on a front four who can rattle the quarterback.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I do too. A little tonic and a lime twist. As long as it's a Tanqueray gin you are good to go.


Ok seriously. What he said. -V
[QUOTE=dmek25;278913]why do people on this board insist on trying to convert players to different positions? if it was that easy, everyone would do it[/QUOTE]

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I have a idea, why dont they just convert Carlos Rogers into a shutdown corner?

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I know, right? That'd solve some issues.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;278934]I have a idea, why dont they just convert Carlos Rogers into a shutdown corner?[/quote]

while we're at it...lets turn Archuletta into a smart safety who can read the pass

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Just what we need, another small shifty wide receiver who can return punts.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Playing CB is all about being an athlete, and this kid is an athlete, anyone can operate with the usual standard picks, but the great ones can see potential in players to play a different position, that is what seperates the great GM from the run of the mill cookie cutter GM. If we had a great GM AA wouldn't be here, Carter wouldn't be here, Lloyd wouldn't be here.

I guess we can continue down the same path, continue to sign and draft players for need, only to find out a year later we actually need a player with skill to fill a need. I guess I was really way out of line to expect our draft experts who brought these players in to begin with to actually be able to evaluate college talent, thier still trying to figure out how to evaluate established NFL talent.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I don't think the idea of trying to find hidden talent is a bad idea, I just think in this case its not the wisest option. I'm not sure I would want to take a guy so high in the first round just to move him to a completely different position on the opposite side of the ball. Plus, we have 0 need for wide receivers right now and 0 need for kick returners. This just seems more like something you do with low round projects. As far as drafting for need, we don't have a choice. We're VERY thin at certain positions, and I've never like drafting merely the best player available anyway...who wants a team completely full of QB's and WR's. Some consideration for need has to go into the process.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;278863]Personally I'm starting to like Jamaal Anderson. First of all Anderson is young at 21 years old. He played against elite competition in the SEC (13.5 sacks), hes athletic (played WR in high school), and hes very raw coming out of college (a la Sean Taylor). This is your defensive game changer. Plus he'll be available when we pick.

1. Oak - JaMarcus Russell
2. Det - Joe Thomas
3. Cle - Brady Quinn
4. TB - C. Johnson
5. Ari - Levi Jones[/quote]


i think you mean levi beown and why would we draft ted ginn that would be insanely stupid and by the time we pick at least one of the three top lineman will be available if not all three

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;278965]I don't think the idea of trying to find hidden talent is a bad idea, I just think in this case its not the wisest option. I'm not sure I would want to take a guy so high in the first round just to move him to a completely different position on the opposite side of the ball. Plus, we have 0 need for wide receivers right now and 0 need for kick returners. This just seems more like something you do with low round projects. As far as drafting for need, we don't have a choice. We're VERY thin at certain positions, and [B]I've never like drafting merely the best player available anyway[/B]...who wants a team completely full of QB's and WR's. Some consideration for need has to go into the process.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. The Lions went with the philosophy of drafting the best player available for about three years in a row -- when they thought they were all wideouts.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

hey earthquake, does the name mean anything?

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=offiss;278955]Playing CB is all about being an athlete, and this kid is an athlete, anyone can operate with the usual standard picks, but the great ones can see potential in players to play a different position, that is what seperates the great GM from the run of the mill cookie cutter GM. If we had a great GM AA wouldn't be here, Carter wouldn't be here, Lloyd wouldn't be here.

I guess we can continue down the same path, continue to sign and draft players for need, only to find out a year later we actually need a player with skill to fill a need. I guess I was really way out of line to expect our draft experts who brought these players in to begin with to actually be able to evaluate college talent, thier still trying to figure out how to evaluate established NFL talent.[/QUOTE]


offiss, why don't we keep it simple for our boys in the front office? It's quite enough for them to see the pros and cons in players for what they are. I really wouldn't want them to 'overthink' things.

Besides, when your defense needs an overhaul, you start up front -- our defensive line has been neglected in the draft for years. All the phenoms and athletes at corner won't matter when running backs gash through the line and quarterbacks can wait and wait and wait for an open receiver.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

NO MORE FIRST ROUND PROJECTS! PROJECTS ARE FOR 6TH, 7TH, or Canadian league

Re: I like Ginn!
 

The only point that I can agree on is the idea of getting the best raw athlete but only at a position of clear need. We absolutely need help at D-line if only for the reason of age. As has been said many times before Wynn, Daniels, Griffin and even Joe Salavea (apostrophe in there somewhere) are not getting any younger. The draft should focus on the best guy (athlete) available for the defensive line. I don't care if it's Tackle or End, we're going to need both in the next year or two.

Also, we do in fact need help at CB but the Redskins philosophy is "Win Now". You have a better shot at drafting a starter at D-line than you do at CB. The CB (if we actually get one) should be addressed through FA.


Detroit's problem isn't simply the fact that they only drafted the best player available the last three year's. I think Jeff Garcia and Joey Harrington proved that. That organization is simply poorly run and breeds an air of finger-pointing and complacency.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=dmek25;278970]hey earthquake, does the name mean anything?[/quote]


yeah that was my nickname in high school so i just use it all the time and the 26 is for clinton portis and the 89 is for santana moss


And once again drafting ted ginn would be STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for obvious reasons

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I'm sorry, I just don't see any evidence that points to Ginn being a shutdown corner. You say he's a great athelete, but I don't see how that proves he can be a shutdown corner.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

are you a big guy? i remember the pro wrestler with that name

Re: I like Ginn!
 

we do not need another offense player. we have very good receiving core,and i do think that ginn is a game changer ,however we need to work on the defensive side of the ball,either at LB,DL or CB.....

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I can't believe we're even giving serious discussion to drafting a player that high and then converting him.

To the best of my knowledge, there's no precedent for that.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

I hope we're not talking about taking this guy in the first round.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;278995]I can't believe we're even giving serious discussion to drafting a player that high and then converting him.

To the best of my knowledge, there's no precedent for that.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't it just two years ago that Jax took that QB (Matt somebody) in the first round and converted him to WR ... That's worked well for them (sarcasm).

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Actually we have done it before with success. We had a return man named Joe Theisman, who made a decent QB...........................I'm for it!

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote]Wasn't it just two years ago that Jax took that QB (Matt somebody) in the first round and converted him to WR ... That's worked well for them (sarcasm).[/quote]
Matt Jones is still very young and actually doing quite well with the transition thus far!

As far as Ginn, no thanks. The only receiver I'd even think about is if Calvin Johnson got past Tampa. He'd be hard to pass up.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

ginn is good at returns, but he has a lot of learning (routes etc) to do at WR. if you want him to play db, he's probably going to take 2 years to learn that position at the NFL level, and you've got no guarantees of success, other than he has the speed for it. alan branch could change games from his first day as a skin, ginn -> DB wouldn't, and may never be a great DB. you can't know because there's no college track record of him playing corner.

josh wilson is just as fast and has a better chance at not busting if you're looking for a quick db (his cod skills and burst aren't as good though, but he can tackle well).

the cbs this year are an incredibly slow class though (4.44 is about the fastest outside wilson's 4.28 or whatever it was) compared to most.

as for WR's - johnson is an absolute slam dunk. big hands, really big, really fast (for his size), attacks the ball in the air, times his jumps well, a true team guy, and he can block with the best of them. There's really not a lot to knock on him, other than he had reggie ball throwing him passes.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;278971]offiss, why don't we keep it simple for our boys in the front office? It's quite enough for them to see the pros and cons in players for what they are. I really wouldn't want them to 'overthink' things.

Besides, when your defense needs an overhaul, you start up front -- our defensive line has been neglected in the draft for years. All the phenoms and athletes at corner won't matter when running backs gash through the line and quarterbacks can wait and wait and wait for an open receiver.[/QUOTE]

I do agree things start upfront, but here we are dicussing having to draft a pass rusher when that was supposed have been taken care of last off season with Carter. As I stated I don't have a prob at all drafting a lineman so long as he's something special and not just another big body.

As for the Lions, obviously they didn't draft the best available player, and after I had a chance to see Mike Williams in the combines and see more and more film on him I did say he could be a huge bust he just looked to slow off the line and easy to jam, if I could see it from watching the combine on tv how bad must the personel department be over there? Can I say horrible? And by the way I was the first to bring the attention of Merriman as the next Jason Taylor, we do have a bonified pass rusher he just play's in the whales vagina.:joke: and we have a CB in Rogers who has yet to cover someone, and opposing QB's use as a safety valve when they need to throw the ball away, they just throw it to him and it's a sure drop.

And might I remind everyone that we took another project who was nothing more than a return guy to play CB in the first rd, his name Daryl Green, how did that pan out? That was the brilliance of Beathard he could see ability in a player even if he was out of position in college. I am not saying this is an absolute by any means but it doesn't hurt to lift a rock or 2 to see whats under it you just never know. He does have the physical ability.

Now if it came to pass that he would be a shutdown CB which would you rather have? Or maybe I could pose the question differently who's more valuable Merriman, or the top CB in the league say Bailey? I would myself go with Merriman, but if it was a choice between Bailey and lets say Tommy Harris, or Demarcus Ware then I have to go with the CB, hopefully we don't draft an average lineman with the 6th pick just because of need only to find out we are having this same conversation this time next year. I guess what it comes down to is I have absolutly no confidence that they would get it right regardless of who they draft.:banghead:

Re: I like Ginn!
 

You mean [I]Darrell[/I] Green?

After all he did for us we can at least spell is name right.

Re: I like Ginn!
 

Like in 1983 Darrell Green? We haven't exactly made these types of transitions on a regular basis? "Turning a rock or two" is one thing, but burning our first round pick might be a little...............to much

Re: I like Ginn!
 

[quote=Hog1;279246]Like in 1983 Darrell Green? We haven't exactly made these types of transitions on a regular basis? "Turning a rock or two" is one thing, but burning our first round pick might be a little...............to much[/quote]

I agree.

We have needs on the DL and this draft is perfect to address that.