What's The Real Problem?
 

The biggest problem I saw in that game was the lack of talent, and the inability to identify it and correct it. Yes it is true we spend plenty of money and give away plenty of picks for the glorified positions, yet we do nothing for depth and special teams.

For starters can anyone tell me that after 3 years with Gibbs and Cerratto evaluating talent we don't have a kick returner? I have to watch Rock returning kicks, it is true Betts is good in this area but he is also our starter and at this point our primary backup, Rock and Thrash just aren't going to cut it.

Perhaps the most irritating part of our team is our kicking game, obviously Gibbs hasen't been able to figure out that Hall isn't accurate, his leg strength has dimished, and he's usually injured. Frost on the other hand stunk last season and yet is in camp with no real competition to speak of, yes he had a beautiful punt downed at the 3 yard line, but early on it was the same old Frost, his kickoffs aren't anything special, and yes he's kicking off because our kicker can't even do that.

As for our O-line, sorry but Raback and Dockery are weak links, and I do believe thier inability to push defenders has a profound effect on the rest of our O-linemen.

Now for Brunell, what more can be said, same old, if his primary is covered he's running towards the sideline and throwing the ball away, how many times last night did he jump out of the pocket with nobody near him? The guy has a 2 second clock in his head after he sets up, once that alarm sounds in his mind he loses it, he will not stay in the pocket and take a possible hit to deliver the ball, which is not an uncommon trait in an older QB but it wont work, the scouting report on Brunell when we traded for him has proven to be accurate " he is no longer willing to take a hit to complete a pass" that is why he was going to be cut by the Jags to begin with. Will he have his moments this year? Absolutly! But he needs very favorable conditions to be successefull, I say put Campbell in there and let him learn, I don't believe we can afford another year of wait and see with him we need to find out about him now, let Brunell relieve him occasionly if he seems to overwhelmed but I believe we must commit to him now.

As for our inability to stop the Viks on third down I can't help but think that Springs would have made a big difference there, as for Rogers? He's looked horrble so far, pre-season was a precursor to the regular season, everytime there is a ball thrown his way the WR is behind him which is bad enough but if he had the brains to turn around and pick up the ball he still could have possibly made a play, bottom line he's shown no indication this year he will ever be able to remotly cover anyone.

AA, something tells me he ain't covering anyone either, and if that's the case he'll have to learn to tackle without grabbing the facemask.


Didn't think Taylor deserved the roughing penalty, and I thought that even more after I watched the refs put thier flags away on our last drive when Moss took a spear right in the side just as he caught the pass, if that's not leading with your head on a defensless reciever I don't know what is, it certainly wasen't the next play when Brunell overthrough the reciver and after the ball went over his head he recieved a shot to the back of his head, I am really growing tired of the hypcryical calls by these refs!

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Hmm. Interesting take, but really it came down to one series. After Frost deadened the ball at the MIN 3, you CANT allow them to get out of their own territory. We controlled the game on offense although a few more points would have been nice.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Real Problem(s) 1) no turnovers 2) inability to get our D off the field on 3rd downs 3) not able to convert TDs in the Red Zone. 4) bad 3rd down conversion ratio on Offense

Good things 1) no turnovers 2) good field position, Randle El is a big improvement over Antonio Brown 3) Offense looks better than preseason.

What we need next week at Dallas 1) healthier Clinton Portis and a 100 rushing day from him. 2) convert on 3rd down 3) get the D off the field on 3rd down 4) convert in the red zone 5) pressure Bledsoe and get some turnovers.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;214241]Hmm. Interesting take, but really it came down to one series. After Frost deadened the ball at the MIN 3, you CANT allow them to get out of their own territory. We controlled the game on offense although a few more points would have been nice.[/quote]

While I can't accept O's assessment of the game, I don't think we controlled anything. I think we managed to stay with an unspectacular Vikings team. the difference is, they did what they had to do, and we did not. it should not have been close. ESPN innaguration, 9-11 memorial, OUR crib======it was a disgrace

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

The real problem with the redskins in general is a lack of organizational continuity. Constant player and coaching changes, the system du jour being put in every offseason. Nothing is ever built upon, every year is a rebuilding process (in one way or another) and I just dont see consistently successful teams doing things that way. I thought Gibbs was going to bring back organizational consistency but so far that has not been the case.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

You guys love Thrash though. Remember? Gibbs should no longer bank on Hall's veteran status. He can't make FGs over 40yds. Rogers is a keeper. There's no doubt about that.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Told you we need a kicker. :) :(

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

This is just one game. My concerns are certainly of our defense. Hopefully their swish cheese showing last night was just a fluke. I can't really say anything negative about our offense except for not punching it in everytime they got into the Red Zone. This offense has proved that it can move the ball and that we do have some weapons - despite not having Cooley involved alot. We just have to do a better job in the red zone. Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart. You also can't fault Hall --- he made up for the bulk of our scoring last night. If ARE could have gotten just one more yard...then more than likely Hall would have had a chip shot.

Biggest problem right now is Special Teams (namely Frost) and defense -- oddly enough.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart!
Can't deny that. Brunell did a good job. I expect him to. He's smart. I wish however, I would see him hit a few more guys in stride. I seems to me almost every reception the reciever is coming back to the ball, having to stop or radically adjust. Kill's yards after catch

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;214298]This is just one game. My concerns are certainly of our defense. Hopefully their swish cheese showing last night was just a fluke. I can't really say anything negative about our offense except for not punching it in everytime they got into the Red Zone. This offense has proved that it can move the ball and that we do have some weapons - despite not having Cooley involved alot. We just have to do a better job in the red zone. Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart. You also can't fault Hall --- he made up for the bulk of our scoring last night. If ARE could have gotten just one more yard...then more than likely Hall would have had a chip shot.

Biggest problem right now is Special Teams (namely Frost) and defense -- oddly enough.[/QUOTE]

The defense allowed 19 points, 86 rushing yards, and 223 passing yards. While not fantastic stats, and though they didn't meet my expectations of them, objectively speaking they were not "Swiss Cheese" or otherwise horrible. I think we've been a little spoiled by Williams' defense the past few years. The did a decent job, even if they couldn't seal the deal.

The offense also played decent, but couldn't seal the deal. Yeah they moved the ball and I was encouraged, but they didn't score 7 points when it counted.

The problem is that we didn't do anything to perfection. Both sides of the ball came up short.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[quote=EXoffender;214273]You guys love Thrash though. Remember? Gibbs should no longer bank on Hall's veteran status. He can't make FGs over 40yds. Rogers is a keeper. There's no doubt about that.[/quote]


Wilbon ripped him a new one in today's Post. I was really steamed about Rogers dancing after the WR for the Vikes dropped the ball.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

we never gave the running game a chance to establish tempo on O
the calls were mainly edge plays & we passed a lot on 1st down. I know Saunders likes to keep defenses guessing, but any o line wants to run block 1st & it builds their confidence over the course. vikes ran even when they didn't avg. 3+
I guess its a matter of adjusting to this O, we'll be rusty early on.
On D, we need springs!

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

The only thing that really bothered me, is that you could tell by the end of the game that if the Vikings got the ball one more time when it was 16-16 that they would score. The Skins D could not stop them from moving the ball. While they only averaged less than 3 YPC, the Vikings stuck with it, and the Skins could not get any penetration to stop Chester Taylor for a loss. Brad Johnson made every throw on 3rd down. If he is the 40th highest paid QB in the league, like they mentioned last night, how good would the Skins be with him under center?

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Our secondary desperately needs Shawn Springs out there. With our nickel back probably gone for the year, d-back depth is lagging. Rogers is clearly not a #1 cover guy, and Archuleta couldn't cover a paper plate with a comforter. Vikes went 9 for 17 on 3rd down. Several of those at crucial times.

Brunell, while not making any mistakes, had a fair game. He didn't do anything spectacular, and didn't lead the team into the endzone when inside the 10 THREE times! Play calling or not, he's a veteran QB who's been there before. Put the damn ball into the end zone. Period.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

the real problem is not lack of talent but.

on offense: the thick saunders playbook
on defense: over confidence and lack of effort on the D line

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

With all the comments thus far, it's obvious we can not just pick one problem. There were a slew!
This is how I saw it: (in no particular order)
1- Horrible play calling on both sides of the ball. Why did we not try to open up the field by throwing downfield? We have Moss, a burner, Lloyd, the guy that can jump and has the "size", and Randle El to create, yet we never even looked at Lloyd and limited Moss to screens. On the D side, we made the Vikes O line look like all pro's. Partly play calling, partly...
2- No defensive penetration. Brad had all day to throw the ball. The linebackers had no sense of urgency, and the DE's didn't create any opportunities.
3- The 700 page playbook. If Brunell was "wishing the day was over", that lack of confidence will trickle down. Brunell was not that good. If you watched downfield, often times a receiver was open and Brunell never saw him. Brunell looked confused.
4- Poor kicking game. I'm not the type to blame the loss on such a thing, but watching Hall's previous kicks, I was even nervous about him hitting an extra point. He kicks one ugly ball. When Randel El did not get to that first down marker, I knew we lost cause Hall would have missed that field goal 4 out of 5 times.
5- Most importantly, we could not stop the 3rd down conversions!!!!! We let the freakin Vikes run or pass at will on 3rd downs! We were lucky to lose by only 3 thanks to Williamson sucking. He dropped that easy TD on the most perfect pass anyone has seen in years, and, humorously, dropping a pass with the deflection of his helmet!
6- Injuries. The loss of Springs was noticably significant, and we need Portis to run the ball 20 times. I like Betts, but he's no Portis.
7- Why OH WHY don't we use Randel El for kickoffs? If he can punt return, he can kick return. Our KR game is horrendous.

There were some other issues, but those were the biggies.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;214355]The defense allowed 19 points, 86 rushing yards, and 223 passing yards. While not fantastic stats, and though they didn't meet my expectations of them, objectively speaking they were not "Swiss Cheese" or otherwise horrible. I think we've been a little spoiled by Williams' defense the past few years. The did a decent job, even if they couldn't seal the deal.

The offense also played decent, but couldn't seal the deal. Yeah they moved the ball and I was encouraged, but they didn't score 7 points when it counted.

The problem is that we didn't do anything to perfection. Both sides of the ball came up short.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the offense couldn't seal the deal in the red zone, and did mention that, but I don't agree that the defense did their job -- although I will say allowing the Viking's great field position for much of the game didn't help matters. Still, if we were spoiled by great defenses under Williams the past two seasons --- AND considering that any changes we made on defense was supposed to have been upgrades, that leads me to believe that the defense was a dissappointment last night.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;214603] Still, if we were spoiled by great defenses under Williams the past two seasons --- AND considering that any changes we made on defense was supposed to have been upgrades, that leads me to believe that the defense was a dissappointment last night.[/QUOTE]

No question they were a disappointment. I have just been trying to look at things objectively and without reference to our expectations. The defense disappointed us because they were medicore when we expected them to be great. Conversely, the offense encouraged many of us because it was mediocre when we expected it to be sub-par. So, while the defense might have been a disappointment, the units performed at about the same level.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Bottom Line: WE WERE OUTCOACHED!?
p.s. lord give me an O-line

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Who expected it to be subpar?Not me I expected alot more than that.Saunders, randle El , Lylod millions of dollars later same result as last year CANT SCORE POINTS.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

wow, talk about over reaction. 3 weeks ago I said we'd get off to a slow start because of gibbs insistance on NOT using preseason to actually practice. The switch just doesn't flip on that fast.

last year we started with 2 games of zero offense (well, 1.93 games). I guess everyone forgot that openning day whooping we put on the bears (9-7).

the only thing is this year the defense let us down with third down penalties (and brad johnson didn't miss a throw). The returns on carter and arch don't look great, and losing our #1 CB and important depth/special teamer prioleau really hurts.

The insistance on staying with dismal kickers and punters sucks too, and lots of people saw that as early as game 6 LAST YEAR. that hurts.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Yeah, I knew that potential game tying field goal was outta John Hall's range. What's Chip Lohmiller doing these days?

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Don't worry my fellow Redskins fans, this is only the beginning. Be patient, the team is still adjusting to Al Saunders offensive 700 page playbook. Also, Greg Williams will fine tune the defense and by midseason we will be virtually unstoppable, offensively and defensively.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

Biggest problems:

1) Play calling in the red zone. (Sellars and Duckette, until the other team shows they can stop them.) (Should improve with time.)

2) Inability to stop the 3rd-down conversions; especially with long yardage (i.e. passes.) in general

3) CB play (wave at the nearest receiver.) (Should improve with Springs).

4) Hall. (I told my wife we would almost certainly lose before the last field goal attempt.)

5) Not stopping them when they started from their own 2.

Other thoughts:

It looked like RE thought he had the first down when he stepped out at the end. Just a miscalculation; can happen; nobody's perfect. He had to get out of bounds.

Offense moved the ball pretty well, especially considering that Saunders doesn't seem to have figured out how to use the players he has.

Neither line looked good.

Didn't feel we ran many routes in the middle of the field. I think this is where Minn. got a lot of the first downs on 3rd and long.

Nice KO return by Betts to give us a chance at the end.

Nice drive at the end with no time outs.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

i do wonder what happened to sellers and cooley and that stupid 3rd and 2 play where they both drift out towards the sidelines... you know, the one we ran about 574 times last year... seems like we could have used it.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

i wish we would put Campbell and Duckett in inside the five. Do a PA rollout, b/c everyone will bite on the PA fake to a guy 250+ and Campbell will elude any pressure better than brunell running and throwing it away. Three dementional play... Big runner with power, a QB that could bootleg, or rollout to a open Chris Cooley/ WR/ Sellers. ahhh we can dream cant we?

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

What's funny is, if we had pulled that game out (and it was close despite all these "obvious" problems), we'd all be saying how good we are. And of course, we'd be going overboard in that case as well.

I'll take Gibbs at his word now--we are inconsistent, but the problems can be readily fixed. This isn't surprising at all on offense given the new system. On D, our lack of secondary health restricted the blitz, a big o-line stuffed our front four, and Brad Johnson was his usual accurate self. He's a vet who reads Ds well and gets rid of it quick--all this made Williams reluctant to Blitz, and that means it isn't really Williams D at its best. Next week, we'll see a lot more blitzing, for good or ill.

But the bottom line is, we aren't as good as the hype made us out to be, but we aren't NEARLY as bad as some nay-sayers here would have it, IMHO. As Gibbs would say, up here it's tough to win. We have to play better. Can we do it? Jeeze, do you really think it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to play better? Of course we can. And given our coaching staff, my guess is that we will. Hang in there, people!

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[quote=That Guy;214620]wow, talk about over reaction. 3 weeks ago I said we'd get off to a slow start because of gibbs insistance on NOT using preseason to actually practice. The switch just doesn't flip on that fast.

last year we started with 2 games of zero offense (well, 1.93 games). I guess everyone forgot that openning day whooping we put on the bears (9-7).

the only thing is this year the defense let us down with third down penalties (and brad johnson didn't miss a throw). The returns on carter and arch don't look great, and losing our #1 CB and important depth/special teamer prioleau really hurts.

The insistance on staying with dismal kickers and punters sucks too, and lots of people saw that as early as game 6 LAST YEAR. that hurts.[/quote]

Finally, a voice of sanity.

There were so many places where this game could have turned, it isn't even funny.

The one place where we were consistantly bad was in the area of getting 3rd down stops -- especially 3rd and 5+. This league is all about third down. It is an area we excelled at last year.

Right now, we have a simple issue of depth due to injury. At this point, I don't think there is anything that can really be done about that. GW is going to have to come up with something before Sunday night to turn that around with the few tools we have available in the secondary.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

I think the real problem was that we didn't establish the run, throught the game. Portis had few too many carries, and Betts had more carries than he should have. I think the coaching staff doesn't want to disappoint Betts by taking him out. I think that we would have been more sucessful if T.J Duckett had as many carries or more that Betts. We know this from last year , we are sucessful as an offense running the ball more than passing.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

[quote=JWsleep;214791]What's funny is, if we had pulled that game out (and it was close despite all these "obvious" problems), we'd all be saying how good we are. And of course, we'd be going overboard in that case as well.

I'll take Gibbs at his word now--we are inconsistent, but the problems can be readily fixed. This isn't surprising at all on offense given the new system. On D, our lack of secondary health restricted the blitz, a big o-line stuffed our front four, and Brad Johnson was his usual accurate self. He's a vet who reads Ds well and gets rid of it quick--all this made Williams reluctant to Blitz, and that means it isn't really Williams D at its best. Next week, we'll see a lot more blitzing, for good or ill.

But the bottom line is, we aren't as good as the hype made us out to be, but we aren't NEARLY as bad as some nay-sayers here would have it, IMHO. As Gibbs would say, up here it's tough to win. We have to play better. Can we do it? Jeeze, do you really think it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to play better? Of course we can. And given our coaching staff, my guess is that we will. Hang in there, people![/quote]

I totally agree. The first one is out of the way and wasn't so bad, it could have been worse. Everything will come together within the next three to four weeks.

Re: What's The Real Problem?
 

The biggest problem IMO was the D. Our special teams are weak and our kicking game sucks, but I was most disappointed with our D. I think with Springs and Prioleau out it showed how thin we are especially in the secondary.

All in all that was a terrible loss. For a supposed Super Bowl contender I was really disappointed that we let that game get away.