Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1205033]I am sure the Trump cult love this one..............

[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-wants-end-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-n926081?cid=par-xfinity_20181030[/url][/quote]

So now being born here in the US isn't enough,..........and the trump train keeps on rolling over America!

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I will bring birthright discussion back here.

Here is a good link about it:
[url]https://www.history.com/news/birthright-citizenship-history-united-states[/url]

I have long been in favor of far more relaxed immigration rules. I doubt I agree with the hardline conservatives or Trump on it, as the Statue of Liberty's poem has always rang true to me.

That said, I don't think it's fair to equate better/fairer/laxer rules with the issue of illegal immigrants. and by extension it's different when talking of children born to people here illegally versus those who have gone through the legal paths of citizenship. Both my mom and ex-wife came here via military marriages, and I know how much paperwork, time and legalities there were to both of those situations, so I can only imagine what it's like to wait years legally from these countries only to have the numbers allotted cut because of people who came without following the law.

It really is the world equivalent of cutting in line in the cafeteria. The solutions are more complex than more line monitors, but its also not as simple as just tearing down the doors of the cafeteria and allowing mobs to have general admission in.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1205033]I am sure the Trump cult love this one..............

[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-wants-end-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-n926081?cid=par-xfinity_20181030[/url][/quote]

I have a huge problem with this. We are going to take a 14 year old that was born here, knows nothing but the United States and send them to a country that they have no identity. To me it is very amoral and not representative of what a country that considers itself a global leader should do.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1205276]I will bring birthright discussion back here.

Here is a good link about it:
[url]https://www.history.com/news/birthright-citizenship-history-united-states[/url]

I have long been in favor of far more relaxed immigration rules. I doubt I agree with the hardline conservatives or Trump on it, as the Statue of Liberty's poem has always rang true to me.

That said, I don't think it's fair to equate better/fairer/laxer rules with the issue of illegal immigrants. and by extension it's different when talking of children born to people here illegally versus those who have gone through the legal paths of citizenship. Both my mom and ex-wife came here via military marriages, and I know how much paperwork, time and legalities there were to both of those situations, so I can only imagine what it's like to wait years legally from these countries only to have the numbers allotted cut because of people who came without following the law.

It really is the world equivalent of cutting in line in the cafeteria. The solutions are more complex than more line monitors, but its also not as simple as just tearing down the doors of the cafeteria and allowing mobs to have general admission in.[/quote]

My mother in law is also an immigrant and it is amazing how long she had to wait to be considered an American citizen. To me we clearly need immigration reform.

I know we will disagree philosophically with how to approach immigration to me I am fine going back to a time of open borders come to a border sign papers, pass a background check and quarantine and congratulations you are now a citizen. With that philosophy there would be no need to sneak across the border it would be easier to identify those that are criminals, we would be able to prevent the spread of emergent infectious diseases.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1205288]My mother in law is also an immigrant and it is amazing how long she had to wait to be considered an American citizen. To me we clearly need immigration reform.

I know we will disagree philosophically with how to approach immigration to me I am fine going back to a time of open borders come to a border sign papers, pass a background check and quarantine and congratulations you are now a citizen. With that philosophy there would be no need to sneak across the border it would be easier to identify those that are criminals, we would be able to prevent the spread of emergent infectious diseases.[/quote]

I agree that we need to reform immigration, and I am closer to what you describe as the way it should be. I don't think we have ever had open borders, but truthfully the difference here is that there is a land connection to the border crossings. When coming by boat or across oceans, the journey had a self-limiting effect that immigration from the southern borders doesn't.

Still, we are a land of immigrants, and when properly enforced, we can be a land of immigrants again.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I have never , ever wanted open boarders and have thought for a while we do need some sort of Legal Immigration reform and enforce the laws already in existence for illegal immigrants.

With all that said ,trumps policy of ripping family and children from their Mothers and kicking out legal citizens .....and lets not forget the the [B]"UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION says they are LEGAL"[/B] citizens is fucking nuts! Is there anyone that does not believe these south American countries have sent these people on purpose to fuck with trump and say screw you trump ? trumps ignorance is a cancer on this country.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1205288]My mother in law is also an immigrant and it is amazing how long she had to wait to be considered an American citizen. To me we clearly need immigration reform.

I know we will disagree philosophically with how to approach immigration to me I am fine going back to a time of open borders come to a border sign papers, pass a background check and quarantine and congratulations you are now a citizen. With that philosophy there would be no need to sneak across the border it would be easier to identify those that are criminals, we would be able to prevent the spread of emergent infectious diseases.[/quote]

No way. Different world. Non starter and with globalization we would be a welfare state. No effing way ever

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1205292]I have never , ever wanted open boarders and have thought for a while we do need some sort of Legal Immigration reform and enforce the laws already in existence for illegal immigrants.

With all that said ,trumps policy of ripping family and children from their Mothers and kicking out legal citizens .....and lets not forget the the [B]"UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION says they are LEGAL"[/B] citizens is fucking nuts! Is there anyone that does not believe these south American countries have sent these people on purpose to fuck with trump and say screw you trump . trumps ignorance is a cancer on this country.[/quote]

In that sense, I agree with the Statue of Liberty's give us your tired...

The problem with the southern border is that we have lost control of the process. That is a republican and democratic failing (you can tell that because both sides flip flop positions depending on who's in power at the moment)

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

trump will never learn that words have consequences!


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-posts-pro-gop-ad-053924624.html[/url]

President Donald Trump tweeted a pro-GOP ad early Wednesday afternoon that’s being compared to George H.W. Bush’s racist “Willie Horton” ad from the 1988 election.

“It is outrageous what the Democrats are doing to our Country. Vote Republican now!” Trump tweeted alongside the video.

Beginning with the legend “illegal immigrant, Luis Bracamontes, killed our people!” the ad compares the caravan of Central American asylum seekers traveling to the U.S. that have made headlines in recent days to Bracamontes, an undocumented immigrant and drug dealer who was convicted of murder in February after being deported twice over the past 21 years. It cuts footage of Bracamontes with news clips of the caravan. Bracamontes, who killed two police officers in Sacramento, Calif. and was sentenced to death, states that he wishes he had killed more.

“Democrats let him in,” the ad reads. “Democrats let him stay.”

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1205294]In that sense, I agree with the Statue of Liberty's give us your tired...

The problem with the southern border is that we have lost control of the process. That is a republican and democratic failing (you can tell that because both sides flip flop positions depending on who's in power at the moment)[/quote]

The best border security in my mind are more stable economies and governments in the western hemisphere. Neither party really addresses that properly either.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1205297]trump will never learn that words have consequences!


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-posts-pro-gop-ad-053924624.html[/url]

President Donald Trump tweeted a pro-GOP ad early Wednesday afternoon that’s being compared to George H.W. Bush’s racist “Willie Horton” ad from the 1988 election.

“It is outrageous what the Democrats are doing to our Country. Vote Republican now!” Trump tweeted alongside the video.

Beginning with the legend “illegal immigrant, Luis Bracamontes, killed our people!” the ad compares the caravan of Central American asylum seekers traveling to the U.S. that have made headlines in recent days to Bracamontes, an undocumented immigrant and drug dealer who was convicted of murder in February after being deported twice over the past 21 years. It cuts footage of Bracamontes with news clips of the caravan. Bracamontes, who killed two police officers in Sacramento, Calif. and was sentenced to death, states that he wishes he had killed more.

“Democrats let him in,” the ad reads. “Democrats let him stay.”[/quote]

Words will only have consequences for him if the democrats can get their shit together. I am highly doubtful.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1205298]The best border security in my mind are more stable economies and governments in the western hemisphere. Neither party really addresses that properly either.[/quote]

That's the truth! :food-smil

I would rather people not feel forced (by economic or political conditions) to make a hazardous and inhuman trek - especially with children, then have them drawn to this country.

I also think that these people would work hard in their countries if given the conditions to succeed, but having the abled bodied flee their own countries doesn't help that situation.

And this is the quagmire of southern immigration, when the governments of free people are so corrupt/anarchistic so as to lead them into poverty, how do the wealthy nations of the world help. It's a dilemna no one has solved :(

For all the poverty assistance programs that we (1st world nations) have mounted, how many countries have really upgraded their conditions.

I will be the first to say I don't know the solution, I can only see the ways that our past efforts have failed :(

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Unfortunately some countries are going to need civil wars to see any drastic changes. We better stay out of that shit. I'm becoming a libertarian when it comes to wars, etc.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1205300]Words will only have consequences for him if the democrats can get their shit together. I am highly doubtful.[/quote]

LOL, yeah they might not win as much but I think there will be enough of a turn over to get in his way.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

trump and sticks and stones.............


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-stoking-caravan-fears-says-troops-will-fire-migrants-throw-rocks-003953495.html[/url]


President Trump said Thursday that he hopes the military troops being deployed to the United States’ southwestern border will not have to fire upon any migrants attempting to enter the country through Mexico, but warned that if any rocks are thrown from across the border “we will consider that a firearm.”

“They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back,” Trump said. “I say, consider it a rifle.”