Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038698]Indians don't have the same employment opportunities as everyone else?[/quote]

Pirates have it pretty bad too. They have to the pillage and plunder in order to survive. Packers had to work long hours shoving meat into little cans. 49ers risked life and limb for tiny specs of gold. Wait. Why does this matter again?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Anyone see the Red Clouds article? I absolutely don't want them to change the name, but I like Red Clouds for some reason. I envision the R logo with the feather inside of an angry storm cloud;)

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Why did Rob Ford have to wear a Redskins tie when he admitted to smoking crack? Out of the bajillions of ties available all over the world, why did he have to pick that one?

Edit: people, learn from my mistakes. Don't trust a not-entirely credible source just because you have limited sources at work. It has been brought to my attention that the tie was in fact, one of those crappy 80's ones with the logos of every team on it.

[QUOTE=firstdown;1038775]While that makes since it could also have a negative spin. One it keeps the attention to the conflict and you don't think the media would spin this as Snyder trying to buy his way out?[/QUOTE]

I made the same point about the media twisting it into something negative.
Oh and in your next life you are coming back as a Native American. I think you are really underestimating the hurt that was put on them and how it literally changed the face of their existence as a people.
I mean - imagine if we were invaded, disease from the invading force wiped most of us out and the rest of us were rounded up and marched off to some remote part of the country? Would it really be that easy for you or your children or grand children, etc to just go " ahh hell ill learn their language and get a job, no hard feelings? "

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1038834]I made the same point about the media twisting it into something negative.
Oh and in your next life you are coming back as a Native American. I think you are really underestimating the hurt that was put on them and how it literally changed the face of their existence as a people.
I mean - imagine if we were invaded, disease from the invading force wiped most of us out and the rest of us were rounded up and marched off to some remote part of the country? Would it really be that easy for you or your children or grand children, etc to just go " ahh hell [B]ill learn their language[/B] and get a job, no hard feelings? "[/quote]
Here's you opportunity.........
[URL]https://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/Culture/OnlineLanguageClasses.aspx[/URL]

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1038811]Well, November is Native American Heritage Month...so that's probably the best choice[/QUOTE]

:D yep. I thought November was some other cancer awarenes month, that's why I left it off.

[QUOTE=Hog1;1038841]Here's you opportunity.........
[URL]https://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/Culture/OnlineLanguageClasses.aspx[/URL][/QUOTE]

I think you missed my point....

Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1038845]:D yep. I thought November was some other cancer awarenes month, that's why I left it off.[/QUOTE]

What does this mean?
Edit: nevermind. I misread your original post.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1038849]I think you missed my point....[/quote]
The satire lamp.....is lit

[QUOTE=Hog1;1038862]The satire lamp.....is lit[/QUOTE]

Um...flickering.....at best

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

DC city council says the name should be changed.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/news/dc-council-demands-redskins-name-change-232343633--nfl.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1038834]I made the same point about the media twisting it into something negative.
Oh and in your next life you are coming back as a Native American. I think you are really underestimating the hurt that was put on them and how it literally changed the face of their existence as a people.
I mean - imagine if we were invaded, disease from the invading force wiped most of us out and the rest of us were rounded up and marched off to some remote part of the country? Would it really be that easy for you or your children or grand children, etc to just go " ahh hell ill learn their language and get a job, no hard feelings? "[/quote]

I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and what they have over come. I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038925]I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and what they have over come. I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them.[/quote]

So basically eff them? American indian culture is amazing, its ashame what has happened to them and the country should do more to perserve their culture. I think the name change issue is completely idoitic and the oneida are foolish to focus on such a stupid issue instead of drumming up support for more pressing needs for that community.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

firstdown, I recommend that you read this as a primer on Native American poverty:

[url=http://www.spotlightonpoverty.org/ExclusiveCommentary.aspx?id=0fe5c04e-fdbf-4718-980c-0373ba823da7]Native American Poverty, by Tom Rodgers - Spotlight On Poverty[/url]

There are more articles out there but work is intervening for me.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038927]So basically eff them? American indian culture is amazing, its ashame what has happened to them and the country should do more to perserve their culture. I think the name change issue is completely idoitic and the oneida are foolish to focus on such a stupid issue instead of drumming up support for more pressing needs for that community.[/quote]

I never said anything close to that. Someone stated that the Indians got the short stick while I agree I responded with this.

"They did get the short stick but in life you have two choices. Keep holding onto that short stick or look to better what you have. "

I was just saying they can't keep on holding onto that short stick and need to move on. Alot of indians have moved on while holding on to trditions. I also agree with you they need to perserve their culture and traditions. Here is a good example of the city I live in giving land back to a tribe to build a replica village. I'll let you know if its worth visting when it finally opens.


[url=http://hamptonroads.com/2013/08/suffolk-gives-nansemond-tribe-land-replica-village]Suffolk gives Nansemond tribe land for replica village | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/url]

[QUOTE=firstdown;1038925]I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and what they have over come. I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them.[/QUOTE]

This country was not responsible for what happened to the jews though, and there was a world war in which Hitler and the Nazi regime was wiped out and shamed to this day. There is worldwide sympathy and disgust about what happened to the jews, and that is not the case for the native americans.
Also if you think the jews have "gotten over" the holocaust well you should talk to some. Who is making excuses? Jews? Native Americans? For what?
It really cones across as if u think it was their fault for what happened to them.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1038934]firstdown, I recommend that you read this as a primer on Native American poverty:

[url=http://www.spotlightonpoverty.org/ExclusiveCommentary.aspx?id=0fe5c04e-fdbf-4718-980c-0373ba823da7]Native American Poverty, by Tom Rodgers - Spotlight On Poverty[/url]

There are more articles out there but work is intervening for me.[/quote]

Sad stuff, but lets talk about a name. wtf...how about Peter King and Bob fucking costas get behind the real issues.

Seriously. Its sick how they are playing the compassion card over a nickname while they turn a blind eye to the real issues. Guess the name change is an easy fix in their little minds. Them and the self proclaimed indian chief d-bag.
Even the president of the united states who has some power to make some real changes. Ugghh.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038927](snip)I think the name change issue is completely idoitic and the oneida are foolish to focus on such a stupid issue instead of drumming up support for more pressing needs for that community.[/quote]If there's one good thing to come out of the Redskin "controversy", I think this is it. And that would be a good outcome.

I fully expect the complete liberal IDIOTS that insisted the name is racist, to claim "We were only doing it to drum up support for native americans!!!!!" if they are finally called on their stupidity.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1039020]If there's one good thing to come out of the Redskin "controversy", I think this is it. And that would be a good outcome.

I fully expect the complete liberal IDIOTS that insisted the name is racist, to claim "We were only doing it to drum up support for native americans!!!!!" if they are finally called on their stupidity.[/quote]

Just what this thread needs, some political injection. Thanks for being that guy (no offense, the real that guy).

What's sad is that after gaining steam and eventually getting the name changed, everyone is going to go back to ignoring the Native Americans. And one more reminder of their presence will be removed from the mainstream.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

I think in some ways focusing on the name is one way for them to draw attention to the other issues. Because let's face it, how many people were even thinking about all the other problems until they said "Why are they worried about the name, look at all the other problems they've got"

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=mooby;1039023]Just what this thread needs, some political injection. Thanks for being that guy (no offense, the real that guy).

What's sad is that after gaining steam and eventually getting the name changed, everyone is going to go back to ignoring the Native Americans. And one more reminder of their presence will be removed from the mainstream.[/quote]Dude, as you almost certainly know, it's been political. That has as much to do with this estranged onieda casino owner having pull in this matter, than his native american connections. Not to mention why the vast majority of people "offended" by the name aren't native american.

I don't expect this to become an issue over voting choice, just saying.

I agree with everything else you said in your post.

Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1039026]I think in some ways focusing on the name is one way for them to draw attention to the other issues. Because let's face it, how many people were even thinking about all the other problems until they said "Why are they worried about the name, look at all the other problems they've got"[/QUOTE]

Zero...zilch...and nada
Edit : its just this hairbitter (?) guy comes across as more of looking to put himself in the spotlite as opposed to the plight of native americans.
So I am not sure that was his intent, but if that is what comes of it that is great.

Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1039034]Dude, as you almost certainly know, it's been political. That has as much to do with this estranged onieda casino owner having pull in this matter, than his native american connections. Not to mention why the vast majority of people "offended" by the name aren't native american.

I don't expect this to become an issue over voting choice, just saying.

I agree with everything else you said in your post.[/QUOTE]

I am not offended by the name, but I dont think it matters if you are native american or not. I get offended when I hear someone say something that I deem racist whether it applies to me personally or not.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1039034]Dude, as you almost certainly know, it's been political. [B]That has as much to do with this estranged onieda casino owner having pull in this matter, than his native american connections. [/B] Not to mention why the vast majority of people "offended" by the name aren't native american.

I don't expect this to become an issue over voting choice, just saying.

I agree with everything else you said in your post.[/quote]

Halbritter is just part of the anti-name campaign. The American Indian Movement (often known just as AIM) is also hosting a protest at our game in Minnesota. AIM is a major, influential pan-Indian organization which includes members from many tribes and is not associated with Halbritter's Oneida Nation. AIM advocates for Native American rights in a number of ways.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1039064]Halbritter is just part of the anti-name campaign. The American Indian Movement (often known just as AIM) is also hosting a protest at our game in Minnesota. AIM is a major, influential pan-Indian organization which includes members from many tribes and is not associated with Halbritter's Oneida Nation. [B]AIM advocates for Native American rights in a number of ways[/B].[/quote]

The irony of your post. Russel Means, AIM's first National Director and a former famous actor, called the term 'Native American' racist.

Most Indians want to be called by their tribal affiliation over being called an Indian or Native American. But between those two names, most prefer Indian or American Indian over Native American, with a fair amount of Indians flat out calling 'Native American' a derogatory term. When this country was in control of their ancestors, it wasnt called America, and when it became America, they were kicked off of their land.

If its about the Indians, then lets get Andrew Jackson off of the $20 bill. If we really want to offer Indians a symbolic gesture, lets put Sitting Bull, Cochise, or some other famous Indian chief of the past on the $20 bill.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1039065]The irony of your post. Russel Means, AIM's first National Director and a former famous actor, called the term 'Native American' racist.

Most Indians want to be called by their tribal affiliation over being called an Indian or Native American. But between those two names, most prefer Indian or American Indian over Native American, with a fair amount of Indians flat out calling 'Native American' a derogatory term. When this country was in control of their ancestors, it wasnt called America, and when it became America, they were kicked off of their land.

If its about the Indians, then lets get Andrew Jackson off of the $20 bill. If we really want to offer Indians a symbolic gesture, lets put Sitting Bull, Cochise, or some other famous Indian chief of the past on the $20 bill.[/QUOTE]

I saw a show, forget where, about native americans/ indians and andrew jackson. They were referring to him as Hitler and what a disgrace it is that he is on the 20 dollar bill.
I get your point about "native americans". Indian puzzles me too though. They arent from the west indies or India. The term indian in reference to native americans stemmed from a case of mistaken identity - because settlers had thought they had landed in the west indies. Anyway to refer to them by their tribal names - well thats just complicated. Anyway this all falls into the "name vs important issue " deal.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1039026]I think in some ways focusing on the name is one way for them to draw attention to the other issues. Because let's face it, how many people were even thinking about all the other problems until they said "Why are they worried about the name, look at all the other problems they've got"[/quote]



We have a winner folks .

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1039026]I think in some ways focusing on the name is one way for them to draw attention to the other issues. Because let's face it, how many people were even thinking about all the other problems until they said "Why are they worried about the name, look at all the other problems they've got"[/quote]

Kinda like how all of a sudden all these people are offended by the name Redskins.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Skinzman;1039065]The irony of your post. Russel Means, AIM's first National Director and a former famous actor, called the term 'Native American' racist.

Most Indians want to be called by their tribal affiliation over being called an Indian or Native American. But between those two names, most prefer Indian or American Indian over Native American, with a fair amount of Indians flat out calling 'Native American' a derogatory term. When this country was in control of their ancestors, it wasnt called America, and when it became America, they were kicked off of their land.

If its about the Indians, then lets get Andrew Jackson off of the $20 bill. If we really want to offer Indians a symbolic gesture, lets put Sitting Bull, Cochise, or some other famous Indian chief of the past on the $20 bill.[/quote]

I understand your post and don't essentially disagree. You are correct that tribal affiliation is generally preferred. In my experience you go a bit too far, though. Unlike Russell Means, whom you quote accurately, many Indians don't mind being called Native Americans.

Here Jeff Harrel takes your Andrew Jackson-type argument and runs with it all the way to "Give us our land back."
[url=http://www.nativenewsnetwork.com/hail-to-the-red-white-and-offensive.html]Hail to the Red, White and Offensive - Guest Commentary - Native News Network[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1039026]I think in some ways focusing on the name is one way for them to draw attention to the other issues. Because let's face it, how many people were even thinking about all the other problems until they said "Why are they worried about the name, look at all the other problems they've got"[/quote]

Most people are still not even talking about the other issues Native Americans face. Outside of this thread, people just talk about the Redskins name. That's all I've heard in the media. Nothing else. I really, honestly, don't think it makes a difference in the long run in terms of addressing the real issues Native Americans face. Once the name change thing is settled for good - whatever that resolution turns out to be - we won't ever hear anything else about the issues Native Americans face in this country. Up until last week, I didn't know November was Native American history month.

I also believe the name change thing ultimately throws even more negativity upon the Native Americans than what may already be there. There's better ways of getting people to not just talk about the issues NAs face, but to do something about it. I think in the grand scheme of things, the name change issues won't really do much to help Native Americans. I mean, when I'm seeing some guy claiming to be of an Indian tribe who's pretty wealthy, my thoughts turn on what is he doing with his money to help his people. Anything at all? Anything substantial? He's championing a name change of a sports team? What does that truly do for the Native Americans?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=skinsguy;1039092]Most people are still not even talking about the other issues Native Americans face. Outside of this thread, people just talk about the Redskins name. That's all I've heard in the media. Nothing else. I really, honestly, don't think it makes a difference in the long run in terms of addressing the real issues Native Americans face. Once the name change thing is settled for good - whatever that resolution turns out to be - [B]we won't ever hear anything else about the issues Native Americans face in this country[/B]. Up until last week, I didn't know November was Native American history month.

I also believe the name change thing ultimately throws even more negativity upon the Native Americans than what may already be there. There's better ways of getting people to not just talk about the issues NAs face, but to do something about it. I think in the grand scheme of things, the name change issues won't really do much to help Native Americans. I mean, when I'm seeing some guy claiming to be of an Indian tribe who's pretty wealthy, my thoughts turn on what is he doing with his money to help his people. Anything at all? Anything substantial? He's championing a name change of a sports team? What does that truly do for the Native Americans?[/quote]

For the win

/end thread

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Giantone;1039078]We have a winner folks .[/quote]Occasionally I make great predictions. (about g1 not ss)

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[url=http://www.seethruedu.com/updates/racism-inc-comes-football]"Racism, Inc." Comes to Football | See Thru Edu[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1038945]This country was not responsible for what happened to the jews though, and there was a world war in which Hitler and the Nazi regime was wiped out and shamed to this day. There is worldwide sympathy and disgust about what happened to the jews, and that is not the case for the native americans.
Also if you think the jews have [B]"gotten over" [/B]the holocaust well you should talk to some. Who is making excuses? Jews? Native Americans? For what?
It really cones across as if u think it was their fault for what happened to them.[/quote]
What the hell are you talking about. Where did I ever say they have "gotten over" what happened to them? The point I was making is that they don't dwell on the past they have moved on with life.

My quote.

"I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and w[B]hat they have over come.[/B] I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them."

Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;1039130]What the hell are you talking about. Where did I ever say they have "gotten over" what happened to them? The point I was making is that they don't dwell on the past they have moved on with life.

My quote.

"I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and w[B]hat they have over come.[/B] I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them."[/QUOTE]

Gotten over = dont dwell, move on.
Edit : would it have made a difference if I had said they "dont dwell" on it?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Edit: nope.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1039130]

My quote.

"I don't but there are plenty of examples of people over coming and moving on with life. The best example would be the Jews and w[B]hat they have over come.[/B] I don't see them rehasing and making excuses because of what happened to them."[/quote]


Amazing .

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Giantone;1039229]Amazing .[/quote]

Amazing your so f*cking dumb.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Really?